AVS Forum banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
753 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all

Just did a verification with the Avia setup disk There must be some

post processing going on after the 5.1/7.1 input

I noticed that the subwoofer sounded extremely dry after a proper

calibration with the Avia sub/main/center/rear test I found a 10 db

drop in center and rear using the test disk. I compared this to the

Denon AVR5803,Yamaha RXV-1 and Denon 4802 and found full

robust bass in all channels I have tried to adjust every setting

(It should not matter as this is a direct analog input) and this is the second unit I have noticed this on.Something is a miss here

All DSP's are ok

Cheers Ray
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,396 Posts
There are independent controls for the DD/DTS bass (LFE / .1) level and the main level for the sub. I should be possible to increase the output of the sub to +10dB and reduce it by 10dB in the LFE / .1 mode to have it work correctly.


Stereodude
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
753 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hi

Well after about 3 hours of fiddling and tweaking everything I can think of

I am 99% sure that there is a problem with the 5.1-7.1 input and as it

is there in 2 units I must conclude that it is a design flaw If you set the

subwoofer level up for proper playback of DVD-A or SACD then the

LFE is +10-12 DB when the DSP's are engaged The only solution I can come up ith is to set the Subwoofer up with DSP to its proper level

and then find a way to boost its level between the DVD players

subwoofer out and the DA5ES subwoofer input that way you would be calibrated correctly for DSP and be compensating for the error when using the direct analog inputs I am sure one of the member here can recommend

a cheap small in line mono preamp to boost the signal without input overload on the DA5ES. If Sony's engineers know about the problem

a firmware fix may be possible but then again it may not because it is

on the analog input and it appears that a filter or dsp function may be "leaking" over to it

Ray
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
753 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Sterodude

Ok I just saw your last post

can you please tell us how to set the sub level with the DSP engaged

to the proper level for LFE and not have it effect the 5.1/7.1 input

I was under the assumption that the adjustment was global like all the rest of the receivers out there am I missing something? I adjusted the

subwoofer level and the LFE mix as well as all the other adjustment I could find.Are you saying that you can adjust and store independently for

different inputs? How?

Thanks Ray
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
753 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hi

I just rechecked the set up menu for the DA5ES

No where in the set up menu can I find a independent level adjust for the

LFE for DD/DTS and Sub level When I adjust the Sub level in the set up

it is global Please advise

Thanks Ray
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
152 Posts
If there is a bug, it's a really good thing that the DA5ES firmware is upgradeable!


KC


Assuming Sony doesn't discontinue the model before upgrading it.

Right now, I think some people are kicking around the idea

of programming the TA-E9000ES preamp (discontinued) to do

things like Pro-Logic II. So with enough industrious people out

there, it might be possible "public" support might come after the

Japanese have abandoned the model.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,396 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Ray
Hi

I just rechecked the set up menu for the DA5ES

No where in the set up menu can I find a independent level adjust for the

LFE for DD/DTS and Sub level When I adjust the Sub level in the set up

it is global Please advise

Thanks Ray
You'll have to wait until I get home so I can look at mine.


Stereodude
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,396 Posts
In the level menu it has S. Woofer Level and LFE Mix Level. Between the two you should be able to equalize both conditions.


Stereodude
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
753 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Hi

already tried the Sub level/LFE mix there is just not enough adjustment to

get both of them set up correctly.The level for the 5.1/7.1 input is

so far off that if you try to correct with the LFE mix your DSP LFE setting are way off.This is not a minor correction the error is huge and I am surprised that Sony or none of the members have noticed this.DVD-A and SACD formats are already bass shy and this compounds the problem The Denon 5803 has a gain control for the Sub exclusively for the 5.1/7.1 direct input That is factory set to +10 to compensate

and I am assuming that the higher you raise the level the more voltage the

preamp section sees from the input.If this holds true then a simple

attenuation between the pre-out of the DVD player and Pre in on the

direct in of the DA5ES should solve the problem I highly doubt that a firm ware upgrade can fix this problem.The Error is so large I will no longer install the unit in installations that require the use of SACD or DVD-A

3802 will be my recommendation I guess Ill have to Re Register my

user name on HTF and let the group over there know about it to see if we can get Sony to move on a possible fix for this

Ray
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
753 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hi

Fishing around the net I found this Same problem with the 777ES

as the DA5ES Shame on Sony for carring it over they have to know

about it Check it out

[URL='http://pub106.ezboard.com']http://pub106.ezboard.com


Cant post direct link, go to Sony 777ES forum Thread titled problem with

ES777 and SACD


It wont let me post the link Here is the thread I hope the author does not mind me using it Here it is If this is a violation please remove


I have run into a problem with my 777ES that I think might interest you all. I am also curious if anyone else has experienced this, and if so, if there was any way to get around it.


The problem is this - When I connect an SACD player to the 5.1 inputs, the subwoofer output is extremely low. To match speaker levels, I had to turn the gain on both my subwoofers to near maximum, which required an adjustment of minus 18 decibels (!) on the 777's internal subwoofer level control in order to listen to other sources with the same subwoofers. I was worried it was the players (I had the NS500V DVD/SACD player first, and now the 222ES player), but I confirmed this is not the case by substituting another receiver (Outlaw 1050) temporarily into my system. With the Outlaw, Subwoofer output was nearly identical for both it's own internal bass management and that of the SACD players, allowing me to set the sub's gain controls to a more reasonable level, and handle the minor differences via the player's limited level control.


I worked around the problem by setting the subwoofers gain very high (as mentioned), and maxing out the 222ES Front-SW balance (which actually decreases the front speakers output, rather than increase the sub out - which sucks because you lose resolution and headroom). This workaround sounds OK, but it causes some other problems, and I am also very uneasy about having my subwoofers set so high, and the other controls that are set to such extremes. One of the other problems is that due to the 222ES balance settings, I now have to turn up the 777 past 12 o'clock to listen to multi-channel SACDs, but when I switch to 2-ch SACDs, the volume has to go back to the normal position (around 8 o'clock). Big potential for blowing out my speakers and sub if I ever forget (very likely scenario in my case).


So this brings the question: Is there an inherent problem with the subwoofer input on the Sony 5.1 inputs? Or is my particular 777ES defective? (if so, then it's the only problem because otherwise it has worked flawlessly for 1 1/2 years)


I would be very curious to know what other users have experienced with the 777ES and its 5.1 inputs.


(By the way, the 777 sounds dramatically better than the Outlaw, which it should at 3x the price, but I had not expected to hear quite that much difference. The Outlaw is considerably brighter sounding, with very little soundfield depth, and a very hot treble on my NHT 1.5 setup)


Note edit to remove authors name

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
753 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Hi Llamas

Ahhhh Issaquah My old stopi'n grounds Say Hi to Mr Carver for me :)

No I havent contacted Sony and according to the thread posted at

the Sony ES forum contacting them through regular channels has no effect

But then again you never know who reads these boards

Ray
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
753 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Hi

It has come to my attention that Ver 1.4 apparently the latest firmware version may not have this problem I cant confirm this as the units I have

are both Ver 1.3
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
473 Posts
Bumping again.


Since the 5.1 inputs should merely be passed through to the 5.1 outputs without any intervening processing (except volume control, of course), can't someone just test the .1 input/output by using it with a normal fullrange signal and amp?

ie take a CD player, plug the left into the .1 input and the right into the right front input and thenplug the .1 out and the right front out into an integrated amp or power amp or even a tape deck and see if the channels are the same volume (allowing for the stereo signal).


Am I missing something fundamental?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,396 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by kaanage
Bumping again.


Since the 5.1 inputs should merely be passed through to the 5.1 outputs without any intervening processing (except volume control, of course), can't someone just test the .1 input/output by using it with a normal fullrange signal and amp?

ie take a CD player, plug the left into the .1 input and the right into the right front input and thenplug the .1 out and the right front out into an integrated amp or power amp or even a tape deck and see if the channels are the same volume (allowing for the stereo signal).


Am I missing something fundamental?
I don't think you're missing anything. Notice how the original poster seems to have vanished.


I should try this on my setup and see what happens.


Stereodude
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
753 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Hi

The original poster has not vanished

I posted an information post that compared the 5.1/7.1 Direct inputs

subwoofer output of the DA5ES to other flagship Receivers

I noted that there was a flaw as compared to the 5803,RXV-1 4802

and TXDS 989 I was then ridiculed and told that a Voltmeter test was done and there was no flaw I didn't respond to the post because

I grew weary of the discussion and ridicule If all the owners of the DA5ES

think that the 5.1/7.1 inputs are hunky dory and sound ok then hey

enjoy I have moved on and am now enjoying DVD-A and SACD

on my 5803 in all its glory If you want to listen to a voltmeter

be my guest I must also point out that to do an accurate test a .

O-Scope with a Hz sweep should have been used

PS I still have two DA5ES ver 1.3 as well as all the other receivers as I have full access to them as well as many high end SACD/DVD-A players


Nuff said

Peace
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top