[Greasemonkey]

For $204K/year you'd think you'd get all the station's bandwidth; not just a subchannel. At that price level, no wonder LPTV is mostly infomercials/shopping and religious programming.

I agree. And even with all the bandwidth it's still an LP station, probably with obsolete equipment and operated like that station in "UHF" with Weird Al Yankovic. If you didn't get all the bandwidth it raises the question as to many subchannels the owner could create before your picture quality wasn't worth paying for. In the slumlord analogy your channel would become part of a tenement slum in the ghetto of LP television. And you would still have to find a way to turn a profit out of that. For that kind of lease money I think you would have to be able to reach at least half the people in the Metroplex before you had a chance of breaking even--and that's with programming that was of a quality to regularly draw in viewers. If you had that I think you could hustle up enough Metroplex-wide local advertising to fund it, but that would have to be one hopping sales staff. And how many hours of programming would be feasible to produce on a daily or weekly basis? The station is only providing what it takes to accept your signal and kick it out. You would still need your own studios to produce it.

I was under the impression that HC2 just bought Mako itself, as well as some similar outfits like DTV America. But I'm not sure; maybe someone who follows the LPTV biz can clarify today's ownership structure.

Some quick searching resulted in no Wikipedia entry for Mako Communications, but there is a Wikipedia entry for HC2 Holdings. It's definitely been a long, strange trip for them. They had their fingers in lot of pies over the years, from steel to undersea cable to broadcasting. As for Mako, the article states that HC2 "acquired the holdings of Mako Communications and its 38 low-power television stations", but doesn't say they bought the company. The more interesting part in the Wiki article is their broadcast purchases. They were buying LP stations for well under a million bucks over the last few years, a couple of them for $225K. That makes me think that if I won one of the $600 million jackpots in the current lotteries I would consider doing the same thing. A few million more in equipment and it would be a state of the art facility. A few million on top of that and you got a decent studio setup to complete the rig. On the other hand, it's still LP but it does make me wonder what a full power station like KDTN would go for on the open market. The cash value for both the Powerball and Megamillions is between $400 million and $450 million, so even at top value for KDTN you would still have some walking around money left over.

 

[Carboncompound]

And just like that ...jinxed! KNAV 22.1 is broadcasting LATV instead of Cheddar.

 

[Carboncompound]

AFAIK HC2 acquired all Mako broadcasting assets including their then "new" website. I'm sure that website will be updated just as soon as HC2 stabilizes their facilities.

 

[Greasemonkey]

And just like that ...jinxed! KNAV 22.1 is broadcasting LATV instead of Cheddar.

It's only a displacement jinx. Cheddar is on channel 22.3 now. PQ on LATV is terrible compared to the subchannels.

AFAIK HC2 acquired all Mako broadcasting assets including their then "new" website. I'm sure that website will be updated just as soon as HC2 stabilizes their facilities.

Hmmm...I can't imagine it would take 3 years to stabilize their facilities unless they are making an effort to spend as little as possible to maintain them. Plus, they could just redirect the Mako website to their own and be done with it.

EDIT: KNAV may have made additional changes recently, at least since I last checked in on them. Their lineup now seems to be:

22.1 LATV
22.2 Infomercials
22.3 Cheddar
22.4 Timeless Television
22.5 beIN Sports

Until today I don't recall seeing Timeless Television and beIN Sports on KNAV. From what I can tell, beIN Sports is a sports network that shows low level sporting events from around the world, and Timeless Television airs all the old classic TV shows that several of the LP subchannels use for filler.

 

[JHBrandt]

It annoys me when HC2 does things like this. Why couldn't they have just put LATV on 22.3 (bumping the infomercials that were there before) and been done with it? Oh, well; at least it's more watchable there than on 26.1 (although they seem to be cropping it to 4:3 then pillarboxing it back to 16:9 )

I don't recall seeing Timeless Television and beIN Sports on KNAV.

They've been on for a while; also, Bein Sports Xtra on 22.5 is HD, although they have a crappy encoder so it doesn't look as good as it should. (The simulcast on 55.6 is SD but the encoder is better. Unfortunately BeIN will probably get booted from 55.6 when Weigel takes over the station, so 22.5's crappy HD will be the only channel left for that network.)

 

[KyL416]

That's the website for beIN's cable and satellite sports channels, this is the website for their OTA network beIN Sports Xtra:
https://www.beinsportsxtra.com/

That other website has nothing to do with "Timeless TV" besides sharing a similar name. As has been mentioned earlier in this thread, Timeless TV is just a glorified infomercial channel that HC2 carries on many of their stations where they loop the same set of public domain episodes of shows like Bonanza, Petticoat Junction and Beverly Hillbillies to trick you into watching the infomercials and long form ads that are the "presenting sponsor", similar to what their sister network Magnificent Movies Network does with public domain movies. The only web presence of those networks are their logos in the programming section on HC2's website.

 

[Greasemonkey]

It annoys me when HC2 does things like this. Why couldn't they have just put LATV on 22.3 (bumping the infomercials that were there before) and been done with it?

That's where marketing and wokeness intersect. LATV is aimed at a Latino audience, and the primary channel is also the prime real estate, like the corner office on the floor of the building. If someone presses "22" on their remote and hits "Enter" they end up here. To get to any of the subchannels it takes a couple of extra button pushes, so those are the lesser real estate. Are two extra button pushes really a hinderance? I remember that Jestons episode where Jane had to go to the doctor because her fingers were messed up from having to press so many buttons. It was humorous back then, but now it seems to be a real medical condition. And man, that Judy Jetson was a hottie!

That other wesbite has nothing to do with "Timeless TV" besides sharing a similar name. As has been mentioned earlier in this thread,

Thanks for the clarification. I did some searching for "Timeless TV" and everything was pretty much about the TV series "Timeless" from a few years ago.

 

[JHBrandt]

If someone presses "22" on their remote and hits "Enter" they end up here.

That makes sense, although knowing HC2, it probably had a lot less to do with "wokeness" than with "richness." I'm guessing LATV paid extra for the prime slot, but Cheddar was willing to pay more than the infomercial channel, so Cheddar got bumped to 22.3 and the infomercials went bye-bye.

I can understand LATV wanting another station, given how tough it is to get KODF out in the 'burbs, now that it's on that dreadful RF 3 frequency.

If someone presses "22" on their remote and hits "Enter" they end up here.

As an aside, I find it interesting how different tuners handle this situation: what happens if you hide 22.1, then press "22" on the remote? The DVR+ and DTVPal tune to 22.2 (unless you've hidden it too), but a lot of tuners will just report "Invalid Channel," forcing you to enter the .2, .3, or whatever. What if you've hidden all the 22.x channels? The DVR+ will tune to 21.5! (I guess the reasoning behind its programming is to tune to the numerically closest channel.)

You can use that trick to tune to some "last" channels. Want to watch NBC Lx? No need to type 5.3; just punch in "6" and you're there.

 

[Greasemonkey]

That makes sense, although knowing HC2, it probably had a lot less to do with "wokeness" than with "richness." I'm guessing LATV paid extra for the prime slot, but Cheddar was willing to pay more than the infomercial channel, so Cheddar got bumped to 22.3 and the infomercials went bye-bye.

That's true; it's a profit oriented business. I remember once hearing a local radio talk show host telling a listener who asked about the possibility of the radio station doing something that amounted to altruism that everything a radio station did had making money at its root in some way. And that's absolutely true. Even the contests they run or polls they put on their website have making money as the motive, if for no other reason than to provide data to their marketers or sell data to potential advertisers. If you call one of the weekend infomercial talk shows about finance or home improvement they at least get your phone number out of the deal, especially if it's a 1-800 number. Several years ago Randall Terry warned people to not do online polls for non-profits and advocacy groups (at least the ones that make you put your e-mail address or other personal details in) because they were nothing more than "donor acquisition".

As an aside, I find it interesting how different tuners handle this situation: what happens if you hide 22.1, then press "22" on the remote? The DVR+ and DTVPal tune to 22.2 (unless you've hidden it too), but a lot of tuners will just report "Invalid Channel," forcing you to enter the .2, .3, or whatever.

If I tune my Samsung TV to a virtual channel that is not programmed in, but is the virtual channel for an active RF it will stutter for a second or so and then tune in and save that RF in the channel list. So in theory I should be able to do a literal full manual scan by starting on virtual channel 2 and punching in sequential virtual channel numbers up to 68. But of course, life is too short...

 

[JHBrandt]

If I tune my Samsung TV to a virtual channel that is not programmed in, but is the virtual channel for an active RF it will stutter for a second or so and then tune in and save that RF in the channel list. So in theory I should be able to do a literal full manual scan by starting on virtual channel 2 and punching in sequential virtual channel numbers up to 68.

My LG TV will do that too: if you put in an "invalid" channel number, it treats it as an RF channel, tries to do a scan, and if it finds anything, tunes to the first channel found. This seems especially common of the tuners built into TV sets.

You can indeed do a manual scan that way, but you have to be careful. For example, if you tune to RF 18, you'll scan in KTXA/21 - but then you can't scan RF 21 because channel 21 is in the TV's channel list now. If you tune to it you just get KTXA again. (It would work if you tuned to RF 21 first, then to RF 18.)

And I don't think DFW has any left since repacking, but we used to have some "loops:" before repacking 29 was on RF 30, 30 was on RF 21, and 21 was on RF 29! So no matter where you started, you could only get two of those three.

 

[CKelley]

Ion isn't going away, only Qubo, Ion Plus, Ion Shop and the QVC and HSN simulcasts are going away.

As for what will replace the Katz networks on local affiliates, it depends what's available locally or if their parent companies make new groupwide deals. Chances are some of the networks that don't have Dallas affiliates or are only carried on LPTV stations will try to fill some of those vacancies like the Reach High/Luken networks Retro, Heartland, Family, Action and Rev'n and other independent networks like Country Network, Fun Roads and LATV.

TVNewsCheck has an article today that the Ion sub channels end 2/28. The Katz networks (Bounce, Laff, Grit, etc.) will migrate as contracts with each network’s current home in each market expires (it says over the course of the next 5 years).


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[KyL416]

For Dallas, Mystery, Bounce, Laff and Grit are with Univision, that contract doesn't expire until 2024.

CourtTV is with Nexstar's KDAF, who inherited it from the deal Katz made with Tribune for their stations to be launch affiliates, so it might be a few years before that contract expires.

 

[JHBrandt]

Mystery, Bounce, Laff and Grit are with Univision, that contract doesn't expire until 2024.

CourtTV is with Nexstar's KDAF, who inherited it from the deal Katz made with Tribune for their stations to be launch affiliates, so it might be a few years before that contract expires.

Well, that bites.

As I said before, we aren't losing much - but evidently we aren't gaining anything either for at least the next few years.

 

[jd8000]

On the other hand, it's still LP but it does make me wonder what a full power station like KDTN would go for on the open market. The cash value for both the Powerball and Megamillions is between $400 million and $450 million, so even at top value for KDTN you would still have some walking around money left over.

KDTN is a noncommercial educational allotment, so it wouldn't go for much and wouldn't be usable for much unless you just want to get all the PBS-adjacent subchannels like World, FNX, and NHK World on the air. Granted, that's a far better use of bandwidth than what's on there now, but probably not the best use of your lottery winnings.

 

[Greasemonkey]

As I said before, we aren't losing much - but evidently we aren't gaining anything either for at least the next few years.

That may be a good thing when put in the context of "aren't losing much". To me that means we won't miss much either, and who knows what diginets will be out there in a few years. It may even be possible that we could see the first ATSC 3.0 UHD diginet by then.

KDTN is a noncommercial educational allotment, so it wouldn't go for much and wouldn't be usable for much unless you just want to get all the PBS-adjacent subchannels like World, FNX, and NHK World on the air. Granted, that's a far better use of bandwidth than what's on there now, but probably not the best use of your lottery winnings.

Unless Word of God Fellowship has a major scandal or otherwise goes broke I doubt that they would even consider parting with the station unless something significantly better came along. But you also mention something I find even more interesting: Noncommercial allotment. It seems to me that there is a very fine line between advertising supported "commercial" television and PBS exploited "underwriting". In theory, if I bought KDTN with lottery winnings, what would be the difference between me putting on 24 hours a day of classroom lectures and other educational programming supported entirely by advertising purchased by local businesses, and PBS airing what they call underwriting for their programming? The thoughts that pop into my head are roses by any other name and lipstick on a pig. Several years ago PBS wouldn't allow "underwriting" for auto manufacturers if it showed the wheels turning on a car, i.e. rolling down the road. Now they do. I saw it Wednesday night on NOVA. Is it some codified definition of the two, or does it come down to what you can swing with the FCC?

 

[Trip in VA]

I'm not an attorney and try to stay away from the legalities of these things, but might be able to clarify a bit.

First of all, because there's an LPTV sharing on KDTN's signal, KDTN could theoretically run one stream of programming under its own license and the rest could be under the purview of the LPTV license, assuming that was obtained for such use. That programming would not be subject to must-carry, of course, but then, none of the subchannels have must-carry.

In order to hold a license for a non-commercial entity like that, I believe you have to be a non-profit organization. You, as a private citizen, could not buy KDTN. If you established "Greasemonkey Educational Television" as a non-profit, you could buy it, but I think you would have to demonstrate your educational purpose or something. I don't really know details and try to stay away from it.

As far as the underwriting goes, my understanding is that the bright line is the "call to action." Bob's Used Cars can't tell you to "come on down and buy a car!" or attack competitors or offer pricing information, but can say they support public television in the interest of providing opportunity to people who can't afford to buy new cars. Or something like that.

- Trip

 

[Greasemonkey]

In order to hold a license for a non-commercial entity like that, I believe you have to be a non-profit organization. You, as a private citizen, could not buy KDTN. If you established "Greasemonkey Educational Television" as a non-profit, you could buy it, but I think you would have to demonstrate your educational purpose or something. I don't really know details and try to stay away from it.

As far as the underwriting goes, my understanding is that the bright line is the "call to action." Bob's Used Cars can't tell you to "come on down and buy a car!" or attack competitors or offer pricing information, but can say they support public television in the interest of providing opportunity to people who can't afford to buy new cars. Or something like that.

I think from a legal standpoint, both of those hurdles would be fairly easy to overcome. If you win the lottery it is likely that the money will be claimed by, and go into a trust or foundation of some kind for tax purposes. So getting a lawyer to set that up before the ticket is cashed in would be a must. Properly informing potential advertisers--er, underwriters of the rules would be a simple matter, as well. But those would be easy things to get done compared to getting Word of God Fellowship to part with a license that gives them the broadcast footprint that they have. I probably watch KDTN less than 30 minutes a year, but think they would be fools to give up what they have unless they had no other option.

 

[jd8000]

It's all defined in 47 CFR §73.621.

(e) Each station shall furnish a nonprofit and noncommercial broadcast service. Noncommercial educational television stations shall be subject to the provisions of §73.1212 to the extent that they are applicable to the broadcast of programs produced by, or at the expense of, or furnished by others. No promotional announcements on behalf of for profit entities shall be broadcast at any time in exchange for the receipt, in whole or in part, of consideration to the licensee, its principals, or employees. However, acknowledgements of contributions can be made. The scheduling of any announcements and acknowledgements may not interrupt regular programming, except as permitted under paragraph (f) of this section.

(j) With respect to the provision of advanced television services, the requirements of this section will apply to the entire digital bitstream of noncommercial educational television stations, including the provision of ancillary or supplementary services.

§73.1212 covers the specifics of how sponsors are to be identified.
§73.3700 and §73.3800 provide an exception to the latter section when it comes to channel sharing.

First of all, because there's an LPTV sharing on KDTN's signal, KDTN could theoretically run one stream of programming under its own license and the rest could be under the purview of the LPTV license, assuming that was obtained for such use. That programming would not be subject to must-carry, of course, but then, none of the subchannels have must-carry.

I'd want the opinion of a good tax lawyer on whether operating a commercial broadcast station would impact their status as a 501(c)3 nonprofit. The FCC might not care, but the IRS probably does.

 

[Greasemonkey]

The Grio is up and running. PSIP data still says it coming soon.

EDIT: I am now seeing actual programming information beginning Sunday evening at 7:00PM. The first actual movie is "Colors", followed by "The Ambush Murder" and "Eye of the Tiger".

 

[Greasemonkey]

I'd want the opinion of a good tax lawyer on whether operating a commercial broadcast station would impact their status as a 501(c)3 nonprofit. The FCC might not care, but the IRS probably does.

I think your are right about the IRS. They seem to relish the opportunity to trip people up on such details. Based on my reading of what you quoted from 47 CFR I think most of that could be navigated. The toughest part might be the prohibition on interrupting programming. Paragraph f looks like it would only apply to something like a pledge drive. Come to think of it, this makes KDTX, owned by Trinity Broadcasting Network a more valuable property as they are a commercial television station. I've actually seen commercials interrupt the Jay Sekulow Live show on TBN. And there is no way they would consider selling that station since they have a big office and production presence in the Metroplex.