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Discussion Starter · #1 ·

So was about to pull the trigger on a SVS PB2000 when the tax man cometh.  I relocated to MI and will be charged tax for an SVS Sub.  So now the cost of my list of subs goes something like this:

 

PSA XV15:  799 + Free Shipping + no tax = 799.00

SVS PB2000:  799 + Free Shipping + 35ish Tax = 833

HSU VTF-3 MK4:  669.00 + 99 Shipping + no tax = 769.00

Outlaw LFM1 - EX:  649 = 89.85 SHipping + no tax = 738.85

 

So with this new knowledge...

 

What Sub is the best bang for the buck?  PSA XV15 due to size and 799 price?  Low cost Outlaw?  HSU for control and cost?

 

Thanks

 

Michael
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinemafreak1  /t/1523036/damn-tax-man#post_24495405


So was about to pull the trigger on a SVS PB2000 when the tax man cometh.  I relocated to MI and will be charged tax for an SVS Sub.  So now the cost of my list of subs goes something like this:


PSA XV15:  799 + Free Shipping + no tax = 799.00

SVS PB2000:  799 + Free Shipping + 35ish Tax = 833

HSU VTF-3 MK4:  669.00 + 99 Shipping + no tax = 769.00

Outlaw LFM1 - EX:  649 = 89.85 SHipping + no tax = 738.85


So with this new knowledge...


What Sub is the best bang for the buck?  PSA XV15 due to size and 799 price?  Low cost Outlaw?  HSU for control and cost?


Thanks


Michael

What's wrong with those prices? A PB-2000 here in Canada is $889 + $50 shipping + $46,95 taxes = $985,95


On top of that, the SB-13Ultra went from $1,599 to $1,749$ recently...


Count yourself lucky...


Fred
 

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For the output I would go with the XV15. It's just a little more than the Hsu and the Outlaw but I think you get a bit more output. 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81  /t/1523036/damn-tax-man#post_24496326



oh no you didnt...I suspect ShadyJ will be in here soon. Run run...hide ya kids, hide ya wife.
LOL. that's funny. As I wrote my post I was literally wondering how long it would be before shady jumped all over it. The clock's ticking. 
 

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Actually Michigan has a 6% "use tax" you are required to pay on all non - taxed out of state purchases used in the state



Now more to your question I would go with the SVS or the XV15. Warranty customer service and strong helpful community heavily prejudice my choice.


I would add LV12R from Rythmik as a possibility too.
 

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I'm still a noob but after much reading and research I came down to an either/or between a PSA XV15 or an SVS PB-2000. I never seriously considered anything else around this price point.

 

My PB-2000 arrived today, and I'm enjoying it for sure. But then it's my first 'real' sub. What put me over the top was a combination of the 1 year upgrade policy + the existence of other subs in the lineup that pique my interest...most notably the PC12-Plus. I have a year to come up with the money and justification to make the upgrade. You can go dual with either and get the discount, although I believe PSA had a 6 month limit on the duals discount, I haven't seen a limit with SVS...and I'm sure at least a full year would be good to go.

 

I was tempted by the belief that the XV15 has an output hump around the 50hz area that is greater than the PB-2000 (some say the SVS is "over-limited"), but then I got the PB-2000 for $729 as an outlet special for some minor damage on one of the corners. 


 

From everything I read I don't think you could be unhappy with the PB-2000 or the XV15.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farley1  /t/1523036/damn-tax-man#post_24496425

 

From everything I read I don't think you could be unhappy with the PB-2000 or the XV15.
 

This is true. Both should put a smile on your face similar to this one: 
 
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farley1  /t/1523036/damn-tax-man#post_24496425


I'm still a noob but after much reading and research I came down to an either/or between a PSA XV15 or an SVS PB-2000. I never seriously considered anything else around this price point.


My PB-2000 arrived today, and I'm enjoying it for sure. But then it's my first 'real' sub. What put me over the top was a combination of the 1 year upgrade policy + the existence of other subs in the lineup that pique my interest...most notably the PC12-Plus. I have a year to come up with the money and justification to make the upgrade. You can go dual with either and get the discount, although I believe PSA had a 6 month limit on the duals discount, I haven't seen a limit with SVS...and I'm sure at least a full year would be good to go.


I was tempted by the belief that the XV15 has an output hump around the 50hz area that is greater than the PB-2000 (some say the SVS is "over-limited", but then I got the PB-2000 for $729 as an outlet special for some minor damage on one of the corners. 



From everything I read I don't think you could be unhappy with the PB-2000 or the XV15.

I agree. remember the Output hump @ 50hz is only present in the 115db max burst sweep. the sub will play relatively flat @ 110db. +/-3db from 22-100hz. I would think they are pretty even performers comparing long term power and compression. The XV15 will only have the advantage for short burst output of 116db in the 40-63hz range.
 

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The new PB2000 looks like it could be pretty good. If it has the same distortion profile of the NSD but with increased output, than you are looking at a formidable sub. If it doesn't carry that distortion profile, I would go with the VTF3 mk4. It will be tuned the deepest, so you will get the most low bass, and it has a lot of output and a very linear response. It also offers a lot of control of the bass sound character. Next to that, the Outlaw, which is essentially a cross between a VTF3 mk3 and mk2, ie older versions of the VTF3s. I would go for a VTF3 over the Outlaw, it's worth the extra $30 just for the larger ports alone, without even considering the other improvements. I wouldn't bother with the XV15, it may be using a larger driver but it is a lower quality driver and that is reflected in the existing third party measurements. I get a lot of flak everytime I point this out, but facts are facts, and they can be seen here .


If you can tolerate giving up a bit of bass from the upper teens to the low 30 frequency range, look at the Reaction BPS 215 . Reaction is a new company, but the specs on that thing look very promising, and it could be a killer sub for the money. Also very close to that same price is dual Reaction BPS 212 Turbos , $900 shipped. That is a lot of woofer for the price, think about that, four 12"s. Four times the surface area of the other 12" subs and three times the surface area of the 15". Those things barely have to move a hair to equal the output of the other subs, which will keep distortion down, and two subs will do a lot more to get you a flatter response at your listening position and a more even bass sound throughout your entire room. They would also use a lot less power to equal the same SPL of the other subs. I love the Hsu subs, the SVS looks great, and the Outlaw is a very good deal for the money, but if I were on the sub market today, I would be taking a hard look at those Reaction subs, the $/performance ratio may well be unmatched.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ  /t/1523036/damn-tax-man#post_24497016


The new PB2000 looks like it could be pretty good. If it has the same distortion profile of the NSD but with increased output, than you are looking at a formidable sub. If it doesn't carry that distortion profile, I would go with the VTF3 mk4. It will be tuned the deepest, so you will get the most low bass, and it has a lot of output and a very linear response. It also offers a lot of control of the bass sound character. Next to that, the Outlaw, which is essentially a cross between a VTF3 mk3 and mk2, ie older versions of the VTF3s. I would go for a VTF3 over the Outlaw, it's worth the extra $30 just for the larger ports alone, without even considering the other improvements. I wouldn't bother with the XV15, it may be using a larger driver but it is a lower quality driver and that is reflected in the existing third party measurements. I get a lot of flak everytime I point this out, but facts are facts, and they can be seen here .


If you can tolerate giving up a bit of bass from the upper teens to the low 30 frequency range, look at the Reaction BPS 215 . Reaction is a new company, but the specs on that thing look very promising, and it could be a killer sub for the money. Also very close to that same price is dual Reaction BPS 212 Turbos , $900 shipped. That is a lot of woofer for the price, think about that, four 12"s. Four times the surface area of the other 12" subs and three times the surface area of the 15". Those things barely have to move a hair to equal the output of the other subs, which will keep distortion down, and two subs will do a lot more to get you a flatter response at your listening position and a more even bass sound throughout your entire room. They would also use a lot less power to equal the same SPL of the other subs. I love the Hsu subs, the SVS looks great, and the Outlaw is a very good deal for the money, but if I were on the sub market today, I would be taking a hard look at those Reaction subs, the $/performance ratio may well be unmatched.


You get flak because you are wrong...the XV15 handles itself just fine compared to the subs in its price class. Definitelty has better compression characterisitcs and thd compared to the Outlaw. How can you routinely recomend a sub that has not been tested, but yet you live and breath 3rd party measurements? I doubt the Reaction subs are going to be anythng magical. The main ID companies pretty much have the price vs performance ratio as good as it will get without sacrificing something.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFred  /t/1523036/damn-tax-man#post_24496043


What's wrong with those prices? A PB-2000 here in Canada is $889 + $50 shipping + $46,95 taxes = $985,95


On top of that, the SB-13Ultra went from $1,599 to $1,749$ recently...


Count yourself lucky...


Fred

Not sure where you are in Canada, but in Ontario, we have 13% sales tax on everything, including cars and houses. So the tax on a PB-2000 is $115
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowerFE  /t/1523036/damn-tax-man#post_24497749


Not sure where you are in Canada, but in Ontario, we have 13% sales tax on everything, including cars and houses. So the tax on a PB-2000 is $115

Is this a merged tax of PST and GST ? Here in Quebec it's 15%. But since Sonicboom doesn't have physical store in Quebec (where you can come in and buy stuff...) we only pay the GST to them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck  /t/1523036/damn-tax-man#post_24497758


He's in Rimouski, which is in Quebec (east of Quebec City).

Correct!
 

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It always amazes me how much tax people in other countries choose to pay.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81  /t/1523036/damn-tax-man#post_24497695


You get flak because you are wrong...the XV15 handles itself just fine compared to the subs in its price class. Definitelty has better compression characterisitcs and thd compared to the Outlaw.

Wrong. With respect to distortion, the LFM-1 EX merits a 113 dB sweep, which was not something that was done with the XV15. If you are going to throw that '3rd order HD is worse' canard at me, remember that would go down considerably if run at a 110 dB sweep, which was the best the XV15 could do. But more than that, take a look at the distortion sweep chart with respect to the compression sweeps for the LFM-1 EX; by the time the EX runs into heavy distortion, its output is down by 12 dB from its higher limits, a fourth as loud as the rest of its basic response. The XV15, on the other hand, is coughing up a ton of distortion well within its output range. In other words, the distortion from the Outlaw wouldn't be nearly as loud or prevalent- in either of its modes. As for compression alone, if you think the XV15 has better compression characteristics than the Outlaw, you don't understand compression. Compression is how severely the power response is deformed from increased stress. The XV15's response can be pushed way past its basic response, much more so than most other subs measured at data-bass, let alone the LFM-1 EX. I don't understand how you can make that argument. Hint: in this case bigger numbers are not better, they are worse.


The bottom line is the Outlaw, an old workhorse which has been around for years, is outperforming a much newer and more expensive sub with a larger driver and beefier amp. How can this be? No doubt the XV15 has much more raw displacement ability than the Outlaw, but it's cone just isn't very well controlled. PSA tries to hit performance targets with cheap, brute force, and they try to smooth the rough edges over with digital processing. But because of the shortcuts PSA took to hit their price point, those rough edges can only be smoothed over so much. The Power X driver is just not a great 15". No shorting rings, too much voice coil for too shallow of a magnet, high Le; like a cheap car sub. A great sub for people who like loud noises but not so much for accurate playback.
 

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For the most part, all the listed sub will perform the same in your home. The slight difference will not be a factor, so get the one that you want.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzie Isaac  /t/1523036/damn-tax-man#post_24496385


Actually Michigan has a 6% "use tax" you are required to pay on all non - taxed out of state purchases used in the state





Now more to your question I would go with the SVS or the XV15. Warranty customer service and strong helpful community heavily prejudice my choice.




I would add LV12R from Rythmik as a possibility too.
 



I noticed that when I did state taxes when I moved. Did not really purchase anything in the short time here in 2013. That sucks. I guess I coudl forget I bought the sub...hehehehe.
 
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