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DANLEY DTS-10 "SUPER SPUD DIY KIT


THE SALE IS BACK ON!!!




Back by extremely popular demand, the DTS-10 is available again for a limited time.


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Well guys, those of you who caught the hint from Ivan a few days ago had an idea where this was going. Danley will be releasing a DIY kit called the DTS-10 or "Super Spud". I'm not at liberty to disclose all aspects of this, but this is something that has been in development for months. Tom Danley came me and Ricci a little after my subwoofer meet and past that there were only a couple others that were included in the very private discussion about this. It's been a real honor talking back and forth with Tom on this. He is an absolute genius when it comes to audio and this will really show with this project. On to the goods...


This will be a kit flat packed with wood pre cut and should be very easy to assemble. I've seen the first drafts of the assembly instructions and anyone who has assembled a bookshelf or desk from Walmart should have no problem building this. It will be a tapped horn much like the original TH-SPUD, but with a lot more output and extension. This will be made exclusively for use in the home theater environment. The sub will incorporate 2-12" sub drivers in a tapped horn that will look a lot like the original SPUD, but larger. Dimensions will be approximately 45"x60"x16" so yes, this is a very large subwoofer, but the benefits are huge. Get to that in a minute. The primary application will be against a wall behind a projector screen, but placement as with all subwoofers is flexible. I would imagine a pair of these could be used under a couch much like the original spud for a very tactile heavy response.


The original idea for this sub was to get similar spl and sound as from the TH-50. Most of you have probably read what people thought of this monster from my GTG. It really is an spl beast. The part where Ricci and I came into the picture was to help with a better "home in room response" for something better suited to movie soundtracks but would also be no slouch in the music department. That's where the lower extension comes into play. We had originally wanted a low end "knee" of 15 hz to provide a nice room shaking ability. After Tom's first model he arrived at a low end knee of 14 hz. After some prototype testing today by Ivan outdoors 1/2 space real world measurement actually put that lower knee at 11 hz!! Getting onto the best part about this 11 hz is that its outdoor 1 meter measurement with 1 watt of input gave a sensitivity of 90 db at that 11 hz. The rolloff going up the frequency spectrum puts it at 100 db with 1 watt at 25 hz and an upper frequency of 110 db with 1 watt input at 80-100 hz. This should yield a very nice room response with very very high output.


I know this is still pretty sketchy, but a lot of this is still in the final development stages. It shouldn't be too long before all details are final on this and more can be released. The price is still yet to be determined, but it shouldn't be too bad. This thing will give anything else close to it's price a run for its money. For right now any questions, that we can or have the ability to answer, should be directed to me or Ricci. When more info becomes available I promise to pass it along. I just wanted to give everyone a heads up and get everyone's mouth watering. I know mine is.



Measurements done by Ricci via http://www.data-bass.com

DTS10 kit CEA2010 rms results at 2m gp
10.0hz- 90.9db

12.5hz- 102.1db

16.0hz- 114.5db

20.0hz- 116.1db

25.0hz- 117.7db

31.5hz- 115.8db

40.0hz- 120.0db

50.0hz- 123.4db

63.0hz- 125.1db

80.0hz- 132.5db

100hz- 131.6db

125hz- 128.1db



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Items you will need to buy to complete the kit



1. 44 tapered head 10-24 x 1" bolts for the access doors and mouth cover

2. 16 10-24 x 1 1/4" Philips head bolts to mount the speakers with lock washers

3. Speaker wire for inside the cabinet

4. 2-4 Binding posts for speaker wire to exit the cabinet

5. Plenty of glue. Most have used PL premium, but any wood bonding adhesive should work well.

6. At least one box of standard 1 1/4"-1 1/2" screws of your choice for assembling panels. Seems the best to use is square head screws.


Good advice from t6902wf.

Quote:
Originally Posted by t6902wf /forum/post/17898861


The only wood screws you need are to assemble the cabinet.


You need a 16 10-24 x 1-1/4" machine screws pan head to secure the drivers.

This is a pan head



You need a quantity of 34 10-24 x1-1/4" machine screws flat head for the two access panels and to close off the mouth on the side you are not using.

This is a flat head



I would use star washers on the drivers. It is overkill but it can't hurt. This is a star washer



I forgot that you need something to attach the grill. It is also a 10-24 thread. It can be short say 1". I would wait until you have the sub it to pick what. The grill is black, you may want a black oxide finish on a flat head machine screw.


Good luck!

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Pics Gallery



Assembly


This is the base panel. Notice everything is very precision cut so all you really have to do is glue and screw.



Both pieces of pre-assembly done.




Driver baffles.



One fold of the horn.



Stood up on its side to see another fold.




Getting the sides of the box on.



Closeup of the baffles.



Interior shot partially built.



Interior done






A little acoustic padding to take the higher frequencies




Finished product minus the panels



Add a can of soda on top to give better size reference



Tcarcio's






Rigma's slideshow

http://s62.photobucket.com/albums/h1...view=slideshow


Driver pics




Another happy owner







One of MKTheater's pair


More pics to follow.



Here's a list of links in this discussion that people may want to refer to. Thanks to LTD02 for compiling the list. If anyone else has any posts they want referenced let me know.


dts-10 impedance, prototype
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post17392166


josh ricci provides teaser (including frequency response of prototype)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post17386336




final dimensions, 44 x 59.5 x 16
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post17494196


view of internals
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post17394745




first pics of flat pack and prototype on dolly
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post17388406


danley replies (including dts-10 vs. th50 frequency response)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post17396395


contact danley sound labs 770-535-0204 http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post17408450


danley replies (headroom)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post17409024


"we are not releasing plans"
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post17415521


danley replies (multiple subs smooth room modes)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post17427393


input panel can be switched from one side to the other
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post17429394


danley replies (headroom)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post17430602


high pass or not?
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post17434127


danley replies (many topics)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post17439681


danley replies (loudness)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post17446315


danley replies (clipping)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post17448785


Link to the DTS-10 discussion at Home Theater Shack
http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...tml#post201190


Link to the DTS-10 discussion at DIYAUDIO.com
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwo...it-making.html


Link to the DTS-10 discussion at Pro Sound Web forums.
"http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/50331/0/"


build pictures of the first dts-10
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post17494105


initial placement recommendation
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post17510862


Tom Danley addresses a number of questions.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post17552206


ricci report: close mic response dts-10
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post17556103


ricci report: initial listening opinions
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post17556295


ricci report: further dts-10 impressions and discussion of room effects
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post17564637


continued...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post17564786


MKtheater initial measurements and listening impressions
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post17678176


Tom Danley advice on eq
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post17680176
 
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COOOOOOOOOL!!!!


Questions--what will be recommended power requirement? Impedance? Where will the "mouth" of the horn be located(thinking about placement)?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Power handling, if I recall correctly, is around 1000 watts. You can imagine what kind of output you will get with that power.


The mouth will be like the original spud, close to the corner. Not sure if its adjustable like the spud, but placement should probably be mouth close to a corner for that corner loading effect.
 

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That's one of the things that may still be discussed (drivers included or drop in of another driver). The sub will work well with the lab 12 driver. Danley has their own version of that driver, but like I said, still kind of up to debate as to whether it will be a direct part of the package or not.
 

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This has been an ongoing project for awhile for DSL and it appears as if things are close to being finalized. A lot of details are still being hashed out and I haven't heard the real deal yet, but judging from Tom's comments about it being "fun" and the 10m outdoor response graph that I saw today, the in room response of 1 cab should be "adequate" for most users
.


A prototype build and more info will be coming shortly.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonnash /forum/post/17384218


After some prototype testing today by Ivan outdoors 1/2 space real world measurement actually put that lower knee at 11 hz!! Getting onto the best part about this 11 hz is that its outdoor 1 meter measurement with 1 watt of input gave a sensitivity of 90 db at that 11 hz. The rolloff going up the frequency spectrum puts it at 100 db with 1 watt at 25 hz and an upper frequency of 110 db with 1 watt input at 80-100 hz. This should yield a very nice room response with very very high output.

Omg! This sounds so sweet! When .... will.... this ....be....ready?!?


Hope I can drop in AE AV12H's in this baby.
 

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Damn, the decision for which new sub just got tougher. I've been deliberating between the submersive, captivator, AE's new offering, and now this pops up!


Regarding the super spud, has accuracy been compromised at all for sheer brute force?
 

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Ivan let me in on this last week, and I can't wait to see the final product and what it achieves indoors. I'm wondering if the final product with drivers and amplification will be less than an active TH 50...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonnash /forum/post/17384518


That's one of the things that may still be discussed (drivers included or drop in of another driver). The sub will work well with the lab 12 driver. Danley has their own version of that driver, but like I said, still kind of up to debate as to whether it will be a direct part of the package or not.

Having seen and done a few TH sims with the regular Lab12, I'd be curious to see some excursion graphs of this design. 13mm xmax and 22mm xmech aren't much at 11hz with 1000W input in a TH.
 

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IMO, Shipping 45"x60" wood panels will be somewhat costly. Wood isn't hard to come by locally and working with wood isn't difficult for most DIYers. I think this would really spread like wild fire if the plans and drivers alone were offered in a package. Offering a "snap together kit" is still a good idea. I'm anxious to see what develops with this!


Dr V
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by findbuddha /forum/post/17385349


Having seen and done a few TH sims with the regular Lab12, I'd be curious to see some excursion graphs of this design. 13mm xmax and 22mm xmech aren't much at 11hz with 1000W input in a TH.

Unlike traditional alignments, horns don't rely so heavily on XMAX. Infact, using high XMAX drivers in a horn will lead to "throad overload". The pressure inside the horn path gets to a point where a negative pressure wave creates a vacuum effect causing turbulence and compression within the horn ultimately resulting in distortion.


If you take a peek at most TH/Folded Horn designs, most employ drivers with less than 15mm of XMAX.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mynym /forum/post/17385521


If you take a peek at most TH/Folded Horn designs, most employ drivers with less than 15mm of XMAX.

Most horn designs (tapped or not) don't have a corner frequency of 11hz either. It seems to be common amongst commercial offerings to claim a frequency bandwidth, power handling and max spl, but neglect to inform people that it's not actually possible due to the driver's mechanical limits.


Perhaps it's a moot point for most people, no doubt it will still be very loud.
 

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Discussion Starter #15

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H /forum/post/17384864


Do you think they would ever consider selling just the plans? If so, I wonder if the size and interior angles could be changed to work with some 15's?

If you haven't messed around with modeling horns it really is a different ball game than designing a ported or sealed or PR'd box. The difference needed for clean response for different drivers can be significant. Ricci modeled one of his re xxx in a tapped horn and the enclosure needed was well over 100 cubic feet I believe.


This is more of a beginners kit with very non beginners results.


As for plans being available by themselves I am not sure, but I don't think they will be. The plans I saw makes it very easy to put this together, but not very easy at all to build with your own wood. Angles are not discussed, the size of the folds, throat, mouth, etc are also not discussed.


Oh, I believe my first post is wrong regarding the 90 db at 11 hz at one meter. Sorry about that. They do their testing at 10 meters!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by findbuddha /forum/post/17385633


Most horn designs (tapped or not) don't have a corner frequency of 11hz either. It seems to be common amongst commercial offerings to claim a frequency bandwidth, power handling and max spl, but neglect to inform people that it's not actually possible due to the driver's mechanical limits.


Perhaps it's a moot point for most people, no doubt it will still be very loud.

Not knowing how this will perform with full power at the lowest frequency I can't tell you. What I can say is that the graph I saw was not something proposed or modeled, its an actual measured response. Will try to post the graph tonight when I get home.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass /forum/post/17386036


Just so I've read the OP correctly... we're talking 700L, right?


That's a lot of box.


Bosso

Yep


"Dimensions will be approximately 45"x60"x16" so yes, this is a very large subwoofer"
 

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Ok...After a bit of sleep, maybe I can get a coherant thought going.


First off no pricing has been mentioned yet, but I see this being significantly cheaper than a finished non powered TH50. It will be a kit flat pack that will come pre-cut and drilled with instructions and with, or without the drivers. Finishing will be up to you and amplification, eq and processing. There was the thought of a plate amp powered version at some point. There was also mention of being able to try a few different drivers as well, but with a TH like this that will be a shot in the dark as to the final response and headroom with a random driver without modeling. Like Brandon mentioned the assembly shouldn't be too bad, but it would take some skill and decent equipment to cut the enclosure yourself. (Have you seen a Labhorn cut sheet lately? It's not as bad as all that, but there are a lot of angles, roundovers and all of the joints are dado'd and what not.)


The drivers are a modded Lab12 type design with a larger 3" coil, more power handling and a longer xmax that DSL has been playing with. This is according to Tom. They aren't the regular Lab12 from PE. There are 2 in the enclosure.


This thing is BIG. 40x60x16. The basic idea is to place one, or 2, or 4
behind a screen in a dedicated room, or to use 1 or 2 as a riser. If you have to think about WAF, or how big of a sub you can deal with, this is not the design for you. Those people are not the intended audience. That would be the few, the proud, the true bass fanatics. That said...if you have the right kind of set-up for it they shouldn't be that bad with the 16" depth.


Some of the things that we don't know are the impedance (no graph for that yet). I'm assuming 2 8ohm drivers in parallel for 4ohm nominal. Assembled weight? (300lb?) Recommended hpf and processing. Power handling is still to be determined. The drivers should be good for at-least 1.0-1.5kw program thermally, but I have no idea what the excursion demands are like on the really low
 

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This would be cool, I have done some research on TH and pretty complicated boxes to get right. You would need to do several iterations to get it right.
 
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