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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater /forum/post/17554676


I have been saying all along I listen at reference and people think I am crazy, maybe it's my room or no compression and low distortion sound but it was nice to confirm my psychosis.

just a heads-up from a disney sound engineer with an ultimate jbl system...


"These speakers make so little distortion that you will be tempted to believe that the 120 dB sound you are listening to is only playing at 90 dB. This is not good. You will lose your hearing. Don't let this happen."

http://www.audioheritage.org/html/pe...6-results.html
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kryptonitewhite /forum/post/17555291


I thought I saw that on here somewhere, and I am glad I am mistaken. can the amp be offered in the kit?


Also, is it possible to have the mouth exit the end? If so I may order 4 of them.


Thanks.

You can order the amp as a seperate item if you want. It will drop into the current opening with no modifications.


You could modify the kit and have the exit on the end. Just make sure the opening is the same size (square inch wise) and seal up both of the current exits.


It just makes it a little bit more DIY than the origional intention of the kit, but should be easy to do with basic woodworking tools.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MBentz /forum/post/17555014


Was that done with the default REW settings? Just curious what your window/smoothing was set to?

Hey Mike.


I took another measure last night. The cab was pulled out into the middle of the room. The mouth had the grill taken off and was placed at the top about 4-4.5ft off of the floor. The mic is a calibrated ECM8000 from CSL that was placed about 2" offset from the cabinets outer surface in the middle of the mouth. The sweep used is the longest one available in REW 1M (21.8sec duration) 0-300hz. Multiple sweeps were run to verify consistency. I switched amps to a QSC Pl9.0 which is flat to 3hz to get rid of the effects of the Crown CE4000's internal 3rd order HPF(-1db at 10hz and -3db at 8hz which happens to work quite well as a HPF for this cab). I don't recall exactly what the window setting was. I'll have to look later. I never use any smoothing for bass measurements below 2-300hz.



Here is that graph. Seeing that it matches up pretty well with Danley's own graph even though the gear used, set-up and environment were much different, gives me confidence in it's validity and that my cab is performing as intended. Mine is slightly boosted below 25hz relative to theirs and I'm missing the up tick at 45hz and 77hz.









Here is the graph extended to 300hz. Note the deep null after 100hz.


 

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I've got to say I'm impressed so far.



Last night I played with a few sine waves just for a sec to get a sense of the output and it's clean and strong. The cab seems very inert. I didn't push it very hard yet, just moderately. There is quite a bit of air flow around the mouth on the sub 20hz stuff and the drivers appear to be barely cracking 1/2" p2p while putting out a very substantial amount of sub 20hz sine waves at the listening position.


I ended up using a low 50hz crossover setting as it gave the best blend to the mains. 80hz was a little worse. Unfortunately my current reciever in this system only has options of 50,80,100,120,150,220hz and no options of slope. I think somewhere around 60 or 70hz may be the sweet spot. I got the response as good as I could without EQ'ing or taking all night. I wish it were better. Having a second would really come in handy here. I can only get a marginal response with a single sub in there, regardless of what sub it is. The addition of a second in the right spot dramatically smooths things out. I set it flat to maybe +2db above the mains.


I then watched Horton Hears a Who with it's DTS track at about -10 from REF and the bass sounded good. There's quite a few spots of high level sub 20hz bass throughout the movie that were well represented. I think the DTS10 easily loafed through this. I didn't hear anything but clean unobtrusive output.


Next up was HellBoy II DTS. This is up there with the nastiest bass soundtracks around IMHO. Just tons of hot low bass everywhere throughout. I left the volume at -10 for this as well. Again the DTS10 had no problem whatsoever that I could tell and seemed like it was operating well below it's capabilities. It does go low and quite a few parts had the "shudder" effect that is from clean, very low bass at high level.
My personal favorite kind of bass followed closely by the "mule kick". I've never heard any non DIY sub do this actually. There was one part in particular where they travel to the Troll Market and a huge door is opened that produced a nice floor ripple effect. Cool.


Tonight I'll do some critical music listening.
 

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Do you guys think using a QSC PLX 2 3602 in stereo mode with each channel running one sub is good? I am thinking of running the sub in parallel.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc /forum/post/17556711


Hey Ricci, how far is the sub from your listening position?

Front right corner, up against the right wall, standing up, mouth down in the corner firing towards the left room corner. I'm going to guess 12 or 13 feet. I'll measure later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater /forum/post/17556723


Do you guys think using a QSC PLX 2 3602 in stereo mode with each channel running one sub is good? I am thinking of running the sub in parallel.

Sounds like a winner to me. You could put an EP2500 on each one. BTW I think you should try the subs flat against the back wall with the mouths down by the floor in opposite corners firing towards the listening position.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 /forum/post/17510535












Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan Beaver /forum/post/17510862


number 4


Are you talking about like number 4? That's what Ivan suggested as well.



dbl
 

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The close-mic method fairly represents the outdoor method. I scaled Tom's outdoor measurement to Ricci's with a close-mic of the Raven 8X15" system that closely approximates 1W/1M for comparison, because it should be somewhat comparable to MKT's system.


My close mic measurements are always smoothed to one octave to eliminate irrelevant ripples, but I think that non-smoothed is necessary with the DTS-10. I don't think the ripple at 25Hz is necessarily missing, just obscured by the room gain in the the trace below 30Hz.




Thanks Josh. Looking forward to the Ricci Report.



Bosso
 

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Thanks Ricci, do you mean 2 ep-2500's bridged or one in 2 channel mode? If bridged I would have to run the drivers in series for an 8 ohm load, no? I would not want to run a bridged amp in 2 ohm mode. I know the ep-2500 works fantastic in 2 channel running 2 ohm subs. I will put them in opposite corners no matter what(2 front corners), the differnece will be horn facing at the seats ot the horn facing up in the air towards my low ceilings. I think the low ceilings give me that extra boundary for room gain, they are treated as well.
 

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Hey Ricci, I just read your thread for the first time over at the shack. The question will be how the DTS-10 stacks up to the re xxx 18 you have. They are beautiful subs, Funkywaves built them?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater /forum/post/17556976


I think the low ceilings give me that extra boundary for room gain, they are treated as well.

MK,


I remember reading about your ceilings, but I just can't remember exactly what you did? If I remember it correctly, you didn't do much. Wasn't it just this stuff ?


dbl
 

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My room used to be all foam(it worked very well, maybe too well). It is now wall to wall to ceiling sound panels I made myself.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 /forum/post/17555604


just a heads-up from a disney sound engineer with an ultimate jbl system...


"These speakers make so little distortion that you will be tempted to believe that the 120 dB sound you are listening to is only playing at 90 dB. This is not good. You will lose your hearing. Don't let this happen."

http://www.audioheritage.org/html/pe...6-results.html

Only problem I have with that is the IMAX here in Albany plays at what I would call a higher SPL level then his system. I would figure there would be some levels that an IMAX can't go over for public safety.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater /forum/post/17556723


Do you guys think using a QSC PLX 2 3602 in stereo mode with each channel running one sub is good? I am thinking of running the sub in parallel.

This would be a great choice, and IMHO better than using two bridged EP2500's.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by zora /forum/post/17557316


This would be a great choice, and IMHO better than using two bridged EP2500's.

Why? The DTS doesnt require much power to start. Two bridged EP2500s for each DTS10?? Wow, overkill
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci /forum/post/17523050


Ivan,


Question.


I'm planning on running the DTS-10 off of a Crown CE4000. I'll be using a speakon NL4 jack. Will it be ok to run the drivers in series or in stereo one off of each channel of the amp? I assume yes, but you had made a comment about the cab response changing if the drivers weren't in parallel. The drop to about 2.5ohms makes me leery of trying that mono bridged.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan Beaver /forum/post/17524705


What I would suggest to to place the amp in the Bridge mode-BUT run a single driver off of each side of the amp WITH NORMAL WIRING!.


There are several reasons for this setup. By placing the amp in bridge mode the B channel will be out of polarity from the A channel. SInce the drivers need to be wired out of polarity-you can now hook them up as normal (+ to +, -to-) and they will be driven in proper polarity.


By having one driver on each channel- you will increase the damping factor of the overall system by having each amp drive a higher impedance than if they were in parallel. If you wire them in series-and run the amp bridged-the damping factor will go in half because of the bridging and will go twice because of the higher impedance.


By having a higher impedance on each channel of the amp-each channel will be working less hard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci /forum/post/17527033


What I'll do is wire my 4 pole speakon jack on the cabinet with the first driver going positive to +1 and negative to -1. Then the second driver will be wired positive to +2 and negative to -2 of the jack. Both in normal polarity. At the amp I'll take the speakon plug off of the cable because it won't work with this wiring (or will it?) and single out the 4 wires and wire them to the binding posts with driver 1 to ch1 maintaining + to + and - to - polarity. Do the same with driver #2 to ch2 maintaining polarity. Set the amp in bridge mode and it'll invert the phase of ch2 and a give 4-5ohm load on each channel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater /forum/post/17556976


Thanks Ricci, do you mean 2 ep-2500's bridged or one in 2 channel mode? If bridged I would have to run the drivers in series for an 8 ohm load, no? I would not want to run a bridged amp in 2 ohm mode. I know the ep-2500 works fantastic in 2 channel running 2 ohm subs. I will put them in opposite corners no matter what(2 front corners), the differnece will be horn facing at the seats ot the horn facing up in the air towards my low ceilings. I think the low ceilings give me that extra boundary for room gain, they are treated as well.

See the conversation from myself and Ivan above. If you wanted to use a pair of EP2500's one on each cab, I'd suggest running them like this. It's working fine for me.


Basically wire one speaker to each channel of the amp in normal polarity and allow the bridging of the amp to invert the phase of one driver. The amp being bridged will ensure that your gain will be the same for both drivers and provide for a safe 5 ohm nominal load on each channel.


A single PL3602 for both cabs sounds good as well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater /forum/post/17556976


Hey Ricci, I just read your thread for the first time over at the shack. The question will be how the DTS-10 stacks up to the re xxx 18 you have. They are beautiful subs, Funkywaves built them?.


Yes and thanks. I designed it and took the ideas to Nathan. He bounced off a few suggestions and made it a reality. It was not cheap by any means. That is exactly the comparison I had planned, but the width of the DTS-10 being 44" may have thrown a wrench in that. The recessed area that the cab is in is only 44.5" wide and I don't know if the DTS-10 will clear the baseboard at the bottom. I also don't know if I feel like moving the ported behemoth out of there into another room. It is quite a bit heavier than the DTS-10 and I'd have to go down 2 steps with it. We'll see. I've got my hunches about how that comparison would play out.
 

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I am running the dts-10 on one channel of my ep2500. My drivers said 4 ohms and I ran the parallel for a 2 ohm load on a single channel. That gives it not quite 1000 watts but pretty close. Still plenty for my room and my tastes.


Edit: I know that the impedance fluctuates. Through the frequency range so didn't really think of the cabinet being involved.
 

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Have a question about the wiring. Is it a better idea to keep the amp near the cabinet and have a short speaker cable run to the drivers and long rca cable, or is it preferable to keep the amp near the receiver and have a short rca cable and longer speaker cable?


Picked up my kit on Monday, btw.


To those who want to save on shipping..have it held at a local depot and break down the box when you pick it up. It's pretty easy to fit in an suv or minivan when you break down the packaging. Although, you might need to remove your back seats.


To be honest, I already have a little buyers remorse with respect to the size of the thing, but you can't seem to argue with the performance per dollar of the package.
 
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