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Discussion Starter #1
So what's next? Two classic war movies, a recent Oscar Best picture nominee and modern Sci-fi classic. All neutered from what should have been a major upgrade worthy of the phrase " . . . the Ultimate High Definition Experience" (sic). Well most high definition titles are worthy. But excessive manipulation of the picture to cater and satisfy them make this all worthless. Why for the love of Allah you ******* ** ***** hide the details that's otherwise present in the movie on a 1080p format? WHY?!?


Its true that a majority of HD release are a substantial upgrade over the SD DVD but that is not an excuse if you make it look the movie is inhabited by wax mannequins with halos or "force fields" all throughout. Just like the CGI animation I see from the video game I play. Clean and smooth.


I don't think I need to tell how disappointed I am when reports start trickling in about the excessive DNR used. Ok, fine maybe its not too bad. Then screenshots from DVDbeaver went online and right away I see the movie is "Pattonized". For two weeks people asserted that the "screenshots can't be trusted" or "screenshots doesn't not represent the PQ of the movie" or "No waiii dat pixie is photochopped to make it look worse!". Well to those people watching this movie right now (assuming your viewing set is calibrated
) what do you see? Does it match? or your TV has some magical powers to add fine detail to all HD releases. You did not have your sharpness setting set to 10 did you?



Ok back to this piece of . . . err I mean Blu-ray disc. There are two versions , The Director's Cut and the Theatrical Cut. And YES there is a difference in overall PQ. But I will deal with that later in the thread
There is no seamless branching. The disc is structured just like the Golden Compass and I Am Legend. As far as the DTS-HD MA sound, its excellent. Outstanding. As usual.


I am not alone with what some called a "crusade" against DNR and EE. Let me correct you with that, WE have a "crusade" against Excessive DNR and EE. Even after all the arguments against these manipulations on films there are still some that just don't understand what is the big deal. It is better than DVD so what is the frakking problem? Let me show you:




'nuff said? Need to see more?


Code:
Code:
Total   Video                                             
Title                                                           Codec   Length  Movie Size      Disc Size       Bitrate Bitrate Main Audio Track                          Secondary Audio Track
-----                                                           ------  ------- --------------  --------------  ------- ------- ------------------                        ---------------------
Dark City: TC                                                   VC-1    1:40:29 19,710,339,072  45,528,093,014  26.15   18.09   DTS-HD Master 5.1 6046Kbps (48kHz/24-bit) DTS 2.0 256Kbps (48kHz/24-bit)


DISC INFO:

Disc Size:      45,528,093,014 bytes
Protection:     AACS
BD-Java:        No

PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name:           00021.mpls
Size:           19,710,339,072 bytes
Length:         1:40:29 (h:m:s)
Total Bitrate:  26.15 Mbps
Description:    

FILES:

Name            Size            Length          Time In         Time Out        
----            ----            ------          -------         --------        
00045.M2TS      19,710,339,072  1:40:29.064     0:00:00.000     1:40:29.064     

VIDEO:

Codec               Bitrate         Description     
-----               -------         -----------     
VC-1 Video          18092 kbps      1080p / 23.976fps / 16:9 / Advanced Profile 3

AUDIO:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
DTS-HD Master Audio             English         6046 kbps       5.1 / 48kHz / 24-bit / 6046kbps (DTS Core: 5.1 / 48kHz / 24-bit / 1536kbps)
DTS Audio                       English         256 kbps        2.0 / 48kHz / 24-bit / 256kbps
DTS Audio                       English         256 kbps        2.0 / 48kHz / 24-bit / 256kbps



Code:
Code:
Total   Video                                             
Title                                                           Codec   Length  Movie Size      Disc Size       Bitrate Bitrate Main Audio Track                          Secondary Audio Track
-----                                                           ------  ------- --------------  --------------  ------- ------- ------------------                        ---------------------
Dark City:DC                                                    VC-1    1:51:43 21,823,856,640  45,528,093,014  26.04   17.83   DTS-HD Master 5.1 5913Kbps (48kHz/24-bit) DTS 2.0 256Kbps (48kHz/24-bit)


DISC INFO:

Disc Size:      45,528,093,014 bytes
Protection:     AACS
BD-Java:        No

PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name:           00019.mpls
Size:           21,823,856,640 bytes
Length:         1:51:43 (h:m:s)
Total Bitrate:  26.04 Mbps
Description:    

FILES:

Name            Size            Length          Time In         Time Out        
----            ----            ------          -------         --------        
00043.M2TS      21,823,856,640  1:51:43.738     0:00:00.000     1:51:43.738     

VIDEO:

Codec               Bitrate         Description     
-----               -------         -----------     
VC-1 Video          17830 kbps      1080p / 23.976fps / 16:9 / Advanced Profile 3

AUDIO:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
DTS-HD Master Audio             English         5913 kbps       5.1 / 48kHz / 24-bit / 5913kbps (DTS Core: 5.1 / 48kHz / 24-bit / 1536kbps)
DTS Audio                       English         256 kbps        2.0 / 48kHz / 24-bit / 256kbps
DTS Audio                       English         256 kbps        2.0 / 48kHz / 24-bit / 256kbps
DTS Audio                       English         256 kbps        2.0 / 48kHz / 24-bit / 256kbps
 

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Discussion Starter #2
This two sets are the only ones I will include the DVD.

Note: The DVD versions are NOT the benchmark here anymore. Its how the movie is faithfully transferred to the disc.

 

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Discussion Starter #4
The transfer is atrocious. Jennifer's face has no definition. Keifer's too. The image is "dead". The DNR is just so overbearing. I can't see any positive attribute to the overall PQ. A modern Sci-Fi classic finally to be seen and enjoyed in full high definition 1080p.


Except the definition is missing. Despicable.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I need to get some HD shots of Jennifer from other titles. Any recommendations? Preferably same AR.
 

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Can we get this out of the way right now?


Person A: "Wow, it looks so much better than the DVD!!! Why are you complaining?"

Person B: "It doesn't look like film and we should demand better."
 

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What about:


Person C: "It doesn't look good but I'll put up with it."

Person D: "This looks as great as Patton!"


Okay, I made up that last one. Let's not go nuts.
 

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Xylon is such a tease
 

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Based on the capture comparisons already out there I have a few conclusions:


the jump over the dvd is huge, obviously


the HD version is waxed and EEed but it varies from shot to shot. Some shots are passable and some are approaching Patton territory with clay-like textures. Those with highly revealing 1080p setups are going to be the most disappointed.
 

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Xylon, are you going to do any comparsions between the DC and TC on the Blu-ray? Apparently 2 encodes on the disc because the DC features new color timing (why do they always take the brown out? ex. Blade Runner, Matrix), while the TC retains the original.


Could be the theatrical cut is less digitally massaged in other ways too? I haven't looked at it yet because I didn't realize there were going to be such differences.


The DC looks good, but I was surprised how clean it looked. Doesn't seem all that detailed, but not waxy either, though I don't have the biggest screen around. Something along the lines of Batman Begins. And I thought the coloring was a little different, but not jarring at least. Still, I missed the browns, much just like when the re-did Matrix and Blade Runner.


Might be interesting to see if the less tweaked version is actually a more detailed image.
 

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I'm hoping to watch this straight through tonight (rental, of couse) but likely won't be able to until tomorrow night or maybe even Thursday. I'm wondering what's up with the music scroe as far as changes.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Review will go up tonight. Sorry for the delay. I did not realize there are two versions in the disc. I need to check them both for accuracy.
 

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Both versions should have the same color timing because both are from the same transfer/master. The extra material was just spliced in.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kram Sacul /forum/post/14391137


Based on the capture comparisons already out there I have a few conclusions:


the jump over the dvd is huge, obviously


the HD version is waxed and EEed but it varies from shot to shot. Some shots are passable and some are approaching Patton territory with clay-like textures. Those with highly revealing 1080p setups are going to be the most disappointed.

After viewing the BD, I would agree with that assessment. The degree of perceived edge enhancement and noise reduction can vary greatly throughout. Unfortunately, the image is caked with DNR more often than not.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kram Sacul /forum/post/14393137


Both versions should have the same color timing because both are from the same transfer/master. The extra material was just spliced in.

Really? This review says otherwise:
http://www.dvdverdict.com/reviews/darkcitybluray.php


And two encodes would account for the relatively low bitrates I observed when watching the DC.


Also, aren't the sound options different for each cut? Like 7.1 lossless only on the DC?
 
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