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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
 http://www.projectorreviews.com/imag...lash_large.jpg


This is a picture from art's review of the IN83 on projectorreviews.com. So therefore it's not a calibration problem probably, or ambient light, or anything else. This is the problem I've been having with my IN83. Look at Johnny Depp's hair, right side of the image. Looking at the image, I'm talking about the hair that appears on the right side of his head (not his right, but the right side of the image). It looks all faded out. You can't see the individual dreadlocks, or really any detail at all. It just looks like a faded out dark shadow, when really one should be able to see his hair. This has been happening with my IN83 for almost every similar type image. With black suits or dark brown suits in regularly lighted or slightly dark scenes, you can't see any threads, any cuts of the suits, any flaps, or any detail at all. The whole suit just looks like a dark shadow, with no detail, and then just a human head coming out of this faded shadowy part of the screen where the suit should be. The IN83 is supposed to have some of the best shadow detail for projectors under $10,000, so I don't understand what's wrong. I thought maybe it was that I had white walls, and have not covered them with black cloth yet, or something like that, but then I found this picture with the exact same problem in Art's review. In some pictures it doesn't seem to be as bad as the problem I'm having, but it's still there in his screenshots. It makes watching any dark scene really poor. Instead of just being able to enjoy a film, whenever it's a dark scene I just keep waiting for it to get bright again. When it's daytime, the colors, the detail, they are all good, but then when anything is dark or shadowy, there is no detail at all over half the screen much of the time.


What is wrong with this projector? Are they all like this, or do I (and did Art) have the contrast settings messed up? It seems that from the lack of detail in Depp's hair, and in my images, that that might suggest the different shades of black, and brown (near black, black, etc) are set too close, so no detail can be made out when they're close together on screen.


What should cause detail in Depp's hair is color distinction. His hair should be brown, and there should be black (a black shadow, or whatever different color is in the background showing between dreadlocks) inbetween each dreadlock, and that would be what would cause definition, distinction... But if brown and black are set too close together in the contrast, then the whole area of his hair will all just look the same, with no definition, like in the photo. Is that the problem? I'd have an easy time believing it was if this wasn't a screenshot from projectorreviews we're talking about. I find it hard to believe Art really did not calibrate the PJ properly before taking screenshots.


So is contrast the problem? Gamma? Are PJ's just bad at showing detail in dark areas period? Except if so why do all the PJs in movie theatres have no trouble with this issue? Dark scenes in theatres are just fine. I never even think twice about them. But on my IN83 that's not the case. There must be way to remedy this, no? What is the problem?
 

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Contrast is for adjusting White Levels. Brightness is for adjusting Black Levels.


You can try adjusting the Brightness up a bit, and even better get a calibration disc to use specific test patterns to adjust your settings.
 

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I've got the IN83 and use it with the gamma mode set to "video". Initially I had it set to "CRT" (default) and a lot of detail in the blacks got lost. Switching this seemed to solve my problem.


Sorry I can't be of more help but after I set my gamma to "video" I have yet to find a flaw with this projector for the price. YMMV of course.
 

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That is black crush. Basically it appears that the projector is clipping black levels below a certain IRE. I am not sure about Infocus, but there should be something in the menu where you can expand the black level. Try that.
 

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My guess is that you have the brightness setting wrong or some setting affecting the brightness (like the gamma mentioned above, or like in my BenQ where there is something called 0 and 7.5 IRE settings) wrong. Get a calibration disk like DVE and you'll fix it in no time.


Regarding Arts pic I would believe that the dynamic range of the camera used to take the photo was too low to capture the dark details.
 

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How is your system hooked up? If you are using a receiver it could be clipping the dark areas. Running the hdmi from the source directly to the Projo might fix this. Also some receiver's have video adjustments to fix the clipping of blacks. I find that almost 1/3 of the receiver's i hook up clip both blacks and whites. If you are not running video through your receiver ignore what i said. If raising brightness does not bring detail back (without cranking it) it's probably the receiver. But it could also be gamma, like mentioned above. Hope this helps
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
gamma helps some, changing it to video or "bright room," in combination with changing the brightness, seems to help, but only once i get the picture too bright completely.


Yes, I am running the hdmi through an A/V receiver. I will try running it straight to the PJ to see if that helps.


One interesting thing is that when something black has water on it, and becomes all dark and shiny, the problem goes away. I can see detail on dark shiny wet things, just not on regular dark things.
 

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Allot of AVR receveirs have been messing up the blacks. Even when blacks can check out ok with a test disc I found actual video can show blacks being ink blotted out. Try bypassing the receiver just for a test and see if you like the blacks better.


You need to look over the pluge pattern on a test disc or use the brightness pattern in the THX optimizer which is on any Lucas movie Star Wars etc.
 

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Do what drewski and Drexler said and use a test disk to set the white and black levels. This is a very important but basic set up step that needs to be done or you will have problems with missing shadow detail or raised (grey) black levels, depending which side of 'correct' you set the brightness control.


If you don't have a test disk, use the THX Optimode that's on Star Wars ANH. It's correct for video levels so should be ok to set your levels correctly. You may need a different disk for HD but at least the Optimode will set your SD levels for you.


Gamma only adjusts luminance levels between white and black, so you can try those to see which ones suits your room/set up.


Reducing screen size won't have any real effect on those settings other than making everything brighter. If the detail is lost due to a bad brightness setting then unless you set the brightness correctly nothing will bring it back.


Do that with the DVD player connected directly to the pj and once it's set, you can then route it through the av kit. You should then see if your shadow detail is being lost because of the av kit.


Gary
 

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I had the same problem when I got my IN83. I posted the same question/symptoms you did, but no one ever replied (sigh).



...Anyway, I finally figured it out. It was my Sony DVD player via COMPONENT. With my OLD PJ (IF7210), progressive was set to OFF with the DVD player. The image looked better that way.


With the IN83 PJ, the image looks better with the DVD player's progressive turned ON (less interlace artifacts), but it deepens BLACK level thru COMPONENT OUT terribly! I hadn't re-calibrated with DVE's Pluge pattern since turning progressive ON, and when I finally did, the "Blacker than black" outer bars were NOT visible no matter how high you turned up the black level!


No that I've turned progressive OFF again and re-calibrated, the black clipping is gone and all that great shadow detail is visible again!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Lightfoot /forum/post/17055186


Do what drewski and Drexler said and use a test disk to set the white and black levels. This is a very important but basic set up step that needs to be done or you will have problems with missing shadow detail or raised (grey) black levels, depending which side of 'correct' you set the brightness control.


If you don't have a test disk, use the THX Optimode that's on Star Wars ANH. It's correct for video levels so should be ok to set your levels correctly. You may need a different disk for HD but at least the Optimode will set your SD levels for you.


Gamma only adjusts luminance levels between white and black, so you can try those to see which ones suits your room/set up.

Reducing screen size won't have any real effect on those settings other than making everything brighter. If the detail is lost due to a bad brightness setting then unless you set the brightness correctly nothing will bring it back.


Do that with the DVD player connected directly to the pj and once it's set, you can then route it through the av kit. You should then see if your shadow detail is being lost because of the av kit.


Gary

Right. It just sounded to me like the screen gain was too low or the screen was too big if settings don't work..
 
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