AVS Forum banner
1 - 20 of 31 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I had originally posted this in the Yamaha thread, but it might get more views in it's own thread :


Anyone have any ideas as to when I put a DVD to output DTS the sound is lower than DD5.1 on my Yamaha HTR-5960?


I used to have an older Sony receiver and DTS was always better sounding than Dolby Digital. Today I watched a disc in DTS for the first time and it was obviously a few decibels softer. I tried discs I had previously watched in DTS and all of them were the same - DD 5.1 sounded better (louder/cleaner). I used both my Oppo DVD player and my XBox 360 and got the same result.


I have the Dynamic Range to MAX, no sound fields (STRAIGHT), and it's connected to an Oppo DVD player w/coaxial cable and Xbox 360 w/optical for sound.


Could I be missing some setting or could it be a problem with the DTS decoding in the receiver? Should I exchange it?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,802 Posts
Not sure, but some receivers/preamps that have a dynamic range control use different terminology. Max might mean the most compression on one receiver, but might mean the least amount on another. Typically, DTS is louder. Not saying better, just encoded louder.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by sb1 /forum/post/0


Not sure, but some receivers/preamps that have a dynamic range control use different terminology. Max might mean the most compression on one receiver, but might mean the least amount on another. Typically, DTS is louder. Not saying better, just encoded louder.

I had thought it may have been that as well, but on the receiver there is MIN-STD-MAX for the Dynamic Range setting. Using DD5.1 the MAX setting is noticeably louder (using a noisy scene from a movie) while DTS remains unchanged. The manual also states "MIN" - if you regularly listen at low levels and "MAX" - to preserve the greatest dynamic range.


There is also a Night mode, but I made sure it is OFF.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,802 Posts
Just a thought, but when you are watching a DTS disc, you're sure the Yamaha is outputting 5.1 sound, and not Pro-logic or some other downmix?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by sb1 /forum/post/0


Just a thought, but when you are watching a DTS disc, you're sure the Yamaha is outputting 5.1 sound, and not Pro-logic or some other downmix?

Yeah, I made sure the Prologic was off. The sound is set to "STRAIGHT" which is defined in the manual as "multi-channel sources are decoded straight into the appropriate channels without any additional effect processing."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,802 Posts
Are you using the same cables with the same components as before? A coax connection can give a higher volume than optical. I've had five Yamaha's in the past, but none were from the HTR line. All played DTS tracks louder. This is something simple, I'm sure. If the sound is simply lower in volume, then you shouldn't have a defective unit. Exactly what type of difference are you talking? And what movies?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,923 Posts
I am curious how a coax S/PDIF connection can make audio louder than a coax S/PDIF connection. That would be a very strange thing, indeed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by sb1 /forum/post/0


Are you using the same cables with the same components as before? A coax connection can give a higher volume than optical. I've had five Yamaha's in the past, but none were from the HTR line. All played DTS tracks louder. This is something simple, I'm sure. If the sound is simply lower in volume, then you shouldn't have a defective unit. Exactly what type of difference are you talking? And what movies?

Everything is the same setup as I had before the Yamaha. I just replaced my old Sony DE875 with it and kept all the connections the same. I doubt it's the cable since the DTS volume was the same using my 360 as a DVD player and that connection is an optical not coaxial. Also, the two cables are going to two different inputs in the receiver (DVD and DTV/CBL).


I tried using Goldfinger and From Russia With Love (from the new Bond sets), Pirates of the Carribean and A Nightmare Before Christmas. It can't be the discs since I had listened to Goldfinger and PotC rather recently on my previous Sony receiver and DTS was louder.


I'm wondering if it's possible something could be damaged with the DTS decoding chip in the receiver, if that's possible? I suppose I will fiddle with it some more tonight, but if nothing changes I will exchange it and see if that solves the problem. I would hate to do that and then find out it was easily fixable like flipping a switch.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,802 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman /forum/post/0


I am curious how a coax S/PDIF connection can make audio louder than a coax S/PDIF connection. That would be a very strange thing, indeed.

I have experienced this with two different sources. A cable box and DVD player. Volume is 3-4 db's lower on optical. I should say that's the perception, anyway. I haven't yet tested it with a meter, but to get the sound where I like it, the optical has me turning up the volume relative to a connection with an RCA coax.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
273 Posts
Nth Power,


I recently upgraded my Panasonic HTIB to a new system which consists of an Onkyo TX-SR604, Panasonic DVD-S52, Energy Speakers and Velodyne sub. I have noticed the exact same thing, when I used to use my HTIB DTS soundtracks always sounded louder. I have noticed with the new setup, that certain soundtracks are indeed quieter. Ones that I have noticed in particular are LOTR:Extended Editions and Sin City. Unfortunately I gave my HTIB to family so I can't readily test it but I've basically just accepted that it's normal. Some soundtracks are still louder in DTS (War of the Worlds), so I suspect maybe it's the source material, and the way the receiver processes it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by judge_dredd /forum/post/0


Nth Power,


I recently upgraded my Panasonic HTIB to a new system which consists of an Onkyo TX-SR604, Panasonic DVD-S52, Energy Speakers and Velodyne sub. I have noticed the exact same thing, when I used to use my HTIB DTS soundtracks always sounded louder. I have noticed with the new setup, that certain soundtracks are indeed quieter. Ones that I have noticed in particular are LOTR:Extended Editions and Sin City. Unfortunately I gave my HTIB to family so I can't readily test it but I've basically just accepted that it's normal. Some soundtracks are still louder in DTS (War of the Worlds), so I suspect maybe it's the source material, and the way the receiver processes it.

Well, I'm going to exchange it today, so if the new one does the same thing, maybe I'll accept it. I hooked up my old receiver and the DTS sounds like it should through that, so it must be something with the receiver. I've just never heard of DTS being quieter (almost muffled) compared with DD5.1. It also doesn't make sense it should sound worse when the bitrate reads 768 kbps for DTS and 384 for DD.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
240 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by judge_dredd /forum/post/0


Nth Power,


I recently upgraded my Panasonic HTIB to a new system which consists of an Onkyo TX-SR604, Panasonic DVD-S52, Energy Speakers and Velodyne sub. I have noticed the exact same thing, when I used to use my HTIB DTS soundtracks always sounded louder. I have noticed with the new setup, that certain soundtracks are indeed quieter. Ones that I have noticed in particular are LOTR:Extended Editions and Sin City. Unfortunately I gave my HTIB to family so I can't readily test it but I've basically just accepted that it's normal. Some soundtracks are still louder in DTS (War of the Worlds), so I suspect maybe it's the source material, and the way the receiver processes it.


I agree, unlike nth Power, my HTR-5960 plays both sound streams near the same volumes. I will have to drag out some more DTS titles to compare later in the week. I'm a DTS fanboy but others claim they perfer the Dolby sound stream. Oh well, whatever floats your boat.


Let us know what you find out NPower.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slidell /forum/post/0


I agree, unlike nth Power, my HTR-5960 plays both sound streams near the same volumes. I will have to drag out some more DTS titles to compare later in the week. I'm a DTS fanboy but others claim they perfer the Dolby sound stream. Oh well, whatever floats your boat.


Let us know what you find out NPower.

Well, I returned it for another 5960 and it seems to be the same as before. The volume seems to be levelled more equally (although DTS is still lower), but that could just be me. I had e-mailed Yamaha customer service about it a couple days ago, but I haven't received a response.


So...could this be indicative of this model? Could the Sony be boosting the signal somehow to make it louder? I only have my previous Sony (and reading other testimonials) for how it should sound. I'm a little puzzled, but if that's how it's supposed to sound, I guess it's not a big deal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by judge_dredd /forum/post/0


List a couple of DVD's that you have noticed this phenomenon on and if I have them I will test them on my system as well. Then we can ascertain whether it is particular receivers or particular discs.

So far, I've tested it on :


Dr. No

Goldfinger

From Russia With Love (all from the new James Bond box sets)

The Nightmare Before Christmas

Pirates of the Caribbean : Curse of the Black Pearl

The Mexican
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
380 Posts
Does your receiver have a dialogue normalization setting for DD5.1, and if so, have you changed it from the default of -4dB? Here is some info on dialnorm:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...on-6-2000.html

Quote:
DTS soundtracks, unlike Dolby Digital, are not attenuated by 4 dB by your decoder. This means that if you've set up your system using AVIA or Video Essentials, the DTS soundtrack is actually going to play 4 dB too high. Yes, that's right. You read it right: On a system calibrated for reference level playback with Video Essentials or AVIA, DTS soundtracks play 4 dB too loud. Conversely (and to be fair), if you set up a system using DTS test noise, the Dolby Digital soundtrack will be 4 dB too low. Yet what is important here, and what I really want you to take away from this, is that regardless of what actual level you watch a movie at, relative to one another, there exists this 4 dB difference between DTS and Dolby Digital movie soundtracks played over consumer equipment. If at any time you are comparing soundtracks, you must turn your volume down when listening to the DTS track and/or raise it when listening to the Dolby Digital track (as the case may be) in order to hear the same level from both.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
754 Posts
I own an older Yamaha RX-V995 and have not had that problem of DD being louder than DTS. I have found that DD has a muddy compressed quality but never being louder than DTS. I would think that its a matter of a setting in your receiver setup that is the problem, IMHO.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by judge_dredd /forum/post/0


The only one I have of the ones you list is Pirates of the Carribean. I prefer the DD soundtrack in this movie. Do you have any of the LOTR:EXtended Editions, or Sin City, or War of the Worlds, or either of the Kill Bill's?

I put in Return of the King:EE and DTS is quieter. I'd say lowered volume comes from it sounding more compressed.


I went and checked the sound levels on my SPL meter and I used the very beginning of Chapter 11 to test. DTS is about 3db lower than the Dolby soundtrack.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,103 Posts
Have you calibrated the receiver to level-match the speakers? Perhaps you calibrated the DD input, but the receiver doesn't carry over the settings to DTS? I know my reciever has independent levels for each sound mode.



Also, it could be the particular DVD. DTS in general should be 3~4dB louder than DD, because DD uses something called "dialnorm" that tells the receiver to reduce the volume by 3~4dB. DTS doesn't use this, which is why the level is usually louder if you switch back and forth.



It could also be that the particular DTS tracks are different "mixes" of the soundtrack.
 
1 - 20 of 31 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top