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Yes, of course but considering good speakers typically crossed over at 80Hz content over 120Hz is not significative.
 

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Yes, of course but considering good speakers typically crossed over at 80Hz content over 120Hz is not significative.
Its nothing to do with good or bad speakers :)
 

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With good speakers I mean big enough to be crossed over at 80Hz. If you have small speakers to be crossed over, let me say, at 120Hz of course the slope will produce content above 120Hz. ;)
 

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Thanks what we want to see here is the two mains and subs all in one go one measurement at a time.
I just want to clarify that I provided the correct pictures even if the responses aren’t showing what they need to yet. Also, was the scale okay?


High frequency extension: You can go as high as you want to but push it to 250hz as that is the full range of the LFE channel nothing will play beyond that as it will roll off at the crossover point anyway. That's how it works.

Low frequency extension slope: DO change it to at least 4th order which is 24 octave/db as if you leave it flat you are asking your subs to play anything at any level without rolling off hence risking driver damage, its important. Plus all you get is distortion anyway below the capabilities of the driver.

You don't want the crossover any higher than 100hz as it will start becoming noticeable in terms of localization. You will be able to begin localizing the subs which you don't want.
What is a good frequency to use? Keep it at the recommended 225Hz?

I don’t understand anything about the LFE slopes, but I do have both the Limiter and Rumble Filter On for my sub. I will post some raw sweeps later with my subs (explanation will be below in the subwoofer phase)

I agree with the localization of bass after 100Hz, especially with one of the subs right next to the couch 4 feet away.

The way it seems you have huge dips at 85,102 and 125 hz.
I noticed this as well. Just thought it was an issue with my room. I'm going to see if moving my back sub closer to the back wall. Currently it's 27" from it, which is really far. However, it seemed to work well there. It's going to be retested at 16" from the back wall.

After you have done all your correction, uploads and EQ, go into the receivers distance settings, set it to 0 and start measuring. Measure with the two mains and two subs on at 0 distance, note the results especially the dips then go up one notch in the distance then re-measure and note the changes in the dips, keep going until the dips keep getting better and stop where they start getting worse again go back one notch that is the best spot for your perfect time alignment with your mains. I would also set the x over to 80 hz as it seems the 85hz dip might be in your subs. It would be also interesting to see phase on the graphs wit your subs measured only.
I’m not sure I need to do this as the alignment is so close according to the Acoustic Timing Measurements (please see the phasing overlap below). The L and R seem to be almost perfect. I just need to decide whether to start the Center just ahead or just behind the L and R. I was thinking just in front because they align better after the first rise. I can't do anything more with the center since I don't have an external amp to use with the miniDSP to apply the extra delay, and ARCs inability to change distances by tenths.

Now as to your subs we don't know if they are aligned perfectly but lets see the mains first. (it should be the other way around though).
The subs best combined response (the best summation) is when they are several milliseconds apart. They still seem to be in phase though. I followed Home Theater Guru’s Guide for minDSP in order to do this. When the subs are time aligned, the combined response is not very good. I have some very long dips that miniDSP cannot fix in the Auto EQ, and I don’t want to apply much boost in manual. I haven’t even tried ARC. Please see the pictures below that show how much better the PRE ARC response is with the 11.5ms delay instead of the time aligned delay. Also, since the miniDSP just makes the two appear to be one sub when ARC measures it, shouldn't I just keep the best EQ'd response?

I really appreciate your help, as well as others that have responded to your replies about this. I hope that I have supplied the right pictures and haven’t left out any details.
 

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With good speakers I mean big enough to be crossed over at 80Hz. If you have small speakers to be crossed over, let me say, at 120Hz of course the slope will produce content above 120Hz. ;)
Crossover settings are not brick wall filters, they are a slope, and even when you cross over to the subs at 80hz, there is still a lot of content going to the subs above 100 hertz. Heck there is even still audible content going to the sub at 200hz.

In fact, with the common 12db per octave slope used in many receivers, the content is only down 12db up at 160hz, which it is important to eq.
 

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With good speakers I mean big enough to be crossed over at 80Hz. If you have small speakers to be crossed over, let me say, at 120Hz of course the slope will produce content above 120Hz. ;)
Sorry dude even my surrounds are crossed over at 80hz and they ain't big ;) Its not about size or they have to be really tiny.
 

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I just want to clarify that I provided the correct pictures even if the responses aren’t showing what they need to yet. Also, was the scale okay?




What is a good frequency to use? Keep it at the recommended 225Hz?

I don’t understand anything about the LFE slopes, but I do have both the Limiter and Rumble Filter On for my sub. I will post some raw sweeps later with my subs (explanation will be below in the subwoofer phase)

I agree with the localization of bass after 100Hz, especially with one of the subs right next to the couch 4 feet away.



I noticed this as well. Just thought it was an issue with my room. I'm going to see if moving my back sub closer to the back wall. Currently it's 27" from it, which is really far. However, it seemed to work well there. It's going to be retested at 16" from the back wall.



I’m not sure I need to do this as the alignment is so close according to the Acoustic Timing Measurements (please see the phasing overlap below). The L and R seem to be almost perfect. I just need to decide whether to start the Center just ahead or just behind the L and R. I was thinking just in front because they align better after the first rise. I can't do anything more with the center since I don't have an external amp to use with the miniDSP to apply the extra delay, and ARCs inability to change distances by tenths.



The subs best combined response (the best summation) is when they are several milliseconds apart. They still seem to be in phase though. I followed Home Theater Guru’s Guide for minDSP in order to do this. When the subs are time aligned, the combined response is not very good. I have some very long dips that miniDSP cannot fix in the Auto EQ, and I don’t want to apply much boost in manual. I haven’t even tried ARC. Please see the pictures below that show how much better the PRE ARC response is with the 11.5ms delay instead of the time aligned delay. Also, since the miniDSP just makes the two appear to be one sub when ARC measures it, shouldn't I just keep the best EQ'd response?

I really appreciate your help, as well as others that have responded to your replies about this. I hope that I have supplied the right pictures and haven’t left out any details.
Lots of info here. I'll reply shortly.

250hz for high frequency extension is fine.

I used 24db for slopes in the miniDSP and 4th order in ARV as they are the same that way. Turn everything off suchc as rumble filter etc o nthe sub and use the miniDSP to handle things. Make sure you have filters applied in there correctly and thats it.

As for the dips in the subs if they are individually fine and you get a dip summed your alignment is not right. When I combine them the first thing I do is see if their combined response creates a positive summation and experiment with inverting either in the miniDSP and see if that single step makes a positive difference, if it does that sub needs to be left inverted and only then start aligning them starting by 1ms each time and measure, once dips smooth out the best and get the most extra output that is the point where they are aligned you are looking for up to 6db extra output summed but sometimes you will only get close that at certain frequency ranges. You shouldn't need to go more then 5ms because after that you just restart the timing cycle if that makes sense?

This applies to the same with your mains as I mentioned earlier. No harm in doing the distance adjustments and see if changing the sub distance in the AVR improves the dips. I bet it will.

I’m not sure I need to do this as the alignment is so close according to the Acoustic Timing Measurements (please see the phasing overlap below). The L and R seem to be almost perfect. I just need to decide whether to start the Center just ahead or just behind the L and R. I was thinking just in front because they align better after the first rise. I can't do anything more with the center since I don't have an external amp to use with the miniDSP to apply the extra delay, and ARCs inability to change distances by tenths.

I am talking about aligning your subs to the mains here, that's what is critical and can creates tight or sloppy weak response and dips.


Also you must have the two subs time aligned first only then you can align them summed to the mains otherwise it will throw it all out.

What I also found was that rotating the subs made a BIG difference in response, my front sub facing the left side wall and the rear facing the right wall this simple step made a significant difference in smoothing out raw response. Elevating them also can help but with large subs it isn't always easy.


I'll pull some of my settings and post it here.

Can you also post some actual photos of your room and also settings of your miniDSP?
 

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Since pictures tell the story way better here are some the way I set things up.

This is Sub 1 in normal position (dips have significantly improved after rotating the driver towards the left wall but forgot to take photo of it):



This is sub 2 in the daigonal opposite corner facing towards the room centre:




Sub 2 rotated towards right wall (see how that dip at 60hz improved?):



This is both subs summed and sub 1 inverted and sub 2 have 4 ms delay added, mains turned off:



This is the full EQ-d end result (that dip at 129hz is in the room I will be working on treatment to minimize):





See the 5 db house curve? I dallied that in after running ARC as per normal and applying the REW EQ and house curve on top, this way it takes the guess work out of the end result as whatever ARC produces and we cannot control Simply take as a baseline and correct it via REW EQ and some manual miniDSP EQ as required. Works beautifully and its the best of both worlds.

This is just a way I do things and it seems to work well.

I hope this helps.

ps: my room is one of the worst there is in terms of acoustics yet this can be achieved with treatment and proper setup.
 

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Picked up a PW Link to help correct my Energy RC10's in my office, seems to work pretty well. I'm still trying to determine the best corrections for best sound, but honestly don't hear a ton of difference unless I just turn off ARC completely. Currently have it set to 800hz (tried up to 20khz) 1db room gain with 150hz center frequency.

Setup is PC --> Topping E30 DAC --> PW Link --> Klipsch PowerGate --> Energy RC-10
 

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I’m currently having a brain fart...if I want to increase the output from 0 in my surrounds in the level calibration settings, do I + or - ?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

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Picked up a PW Link to help correct my Energy RC10's in my office, seems to work pretty well. I'm still trying to determine the best corrections for best sound, but honestly don't hear a ton of difference unless I just turn off ARC completely. Currently have it set to 800hz (tried up to 20khz) 1db room gain with 150hz center frequency.

Setup is PC --> Topping E30 DAC --> PW Link --> Klipsch PowerGate --> Energy RC-10
The LINK is the secret way to get ARC for under $200. I love mine. Use it with a 2.1 system, with a MINIDSP acting as the crossover. The LINK thinks it is correcting two full range speakers. Sounds fantastic.

I am not surprised you don't hear a lot of difference EQing up to 800 hz versus 20khz with a near field set up in particular because above 300 or 400 hz you are "only" getting direct sound from a near field setup like that....so there isn't much room to correct in your setup (and any correction you are hearing is more about improving the linearity of the treble at your seating location, which is probably already pretty good with those speakers in near field positions, and with nice treatment).

In my two channel living room setup, letting the LINK EQ all the way up to 20khz makes a difference, since I am sitting two feet away from the speakers and there is a lot of room involved in how the sound gets to me.


One note, in your chain you are losing all the audio properties of the Topping E30 DAC because the PW LINK re-digitizes the signal, negating the impact of the Topping. I would recommend you place the TOPPING after the LINK (and of course re-running ARC just in case that changes the signal a bit) and I wonder whether the Klipsch re-digitizes the audio, which would negate the TOPPING as well.....?


If you are inclined, you can pick up the PW AMP on ebay for under $200 that would combine most of the features of the KLIPSCH unit and the PWLINK, but that is probably overkill.
 

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Just confirmed with Anthem support ARC is not in any way able to time align speakers and subs. Hence it has to be done manually. Which I have just done on all 13 speaker and the result is a tighter sound stage all across with better separation.
Need REW to do it. Also been able to improve that persistent 129hz dip as well this way.
 

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Just confirmed with Anthem support ARC is not in any way able to time align speakers and subs. Hence it has to be done manually. Which I have just done on all 13 speaker and the result is a tighter sound stage all across with better separation.
Need REW to do it. Also been able to improve that persistent 129hz dip as well this way.
That would explain why their system doesn't set distances for the speakers, too.
 

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That would explain why their system doesn't set distances for the speakers, too.
Yep, there were some fancy explanation here how it does it but it never made sense to me why it does not auto set distances which are delay in reality. That's why.
This IMO sucks at this price range as how on earth would anyone without advanced knowledge could figure it out let alone do it? This leaves a lot on he table.
 

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Yep, there were some fancy explanation here how it does it but it never made sense to me why it does not auto set distances which are delay in reality. That's why.
This IMO sucks at this price range as how on earth would anyone without advanced knowledge could figure it out let alone do it? This leaves a lot on he table.
Regarding time alignment of speakers: The STR range will set phase (delay) automatically. It still has distance settings that are entered manually. I think of the former as the fine adjustment to the coarse adjustment made with the latter.

I have checked the result using a Dayton OmniMic2, and it works as advertised.

The STR, of course, are up to 2.2 channels -- not surround. Perhaps Anthem will incorporate auto adjustments into more products in future.
 

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To be fair measuring physical distance works pretty well for speakers other than subs.

But yes that would be a nice feature And doesn’t their version for paradigm subs or Martin Logan subs set delay and or phase?
Its very rough, I was able to smooth a nasty dip by dialing all speakers in manually the worst one was the center, ARC just couldn't do it due to group delay issues. As when you apply an EQ filter it introduces issues. The problem is the adjustments are rough 0.3 meter. I'll check tomorrow how many ms this equals to as Anthem won't answer that.

I understand the lack of this basic feature may not be an issue for most but I do detect the slightest change and manually dialing it all in well its a great felling to get the best out of the system.

The MRX are really bare bone basic devices however with outstanding raw sonic qualities but that's the end of it. I am more than happy to dial all in but it would be nice to let us know about these in the manual at least.

and yes I recently sold a Martin Logan sub which had this built in so go figure.
 
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