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Discussion Starter #81
Making ARC Genesis a sticky

Administrator might have to make it a sticky? Dunno, but I'd support that! Not sure what criteria are required for that though....
There's one for Audessey. Never understood why their isn't one for ARC.
I also have not understood the apparent support for Audyssey versus ARC.

Count me in I'd support making it a sticky too. Not sure what the criteria is but the thread is approaching 100 post.
So there are 4 of us. What do we do now? Anybody know?
 

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Discussion Starter #82
House Curve

What I like about having a house curve is that if I start my house curve to gradually rise starting around 45Hz all the way down to 15Hz my dual HsuVTF-15H subs really give a gut punch in the 30 -45 range but as you get into the lower 20s and teens you can feel the air move your pants legs on certain movies. Immediately after a scene in a movie with low bass ends if you have the volume set to around -22 you can feel a rush of cool air hit you like someone turned on the A/C except it’s coming directly at you from the front of the room where the subs are. The only other time I’ve ever felt the air moving from the subs was in a Dolby Cinema watching Avengers Endgame

The other thing I like about having a house curve is that my dedicated theater is sealed and in the basement so it’s carpet over concrete but on that really low stuff the ultra-low frequencies are so strong the room just pressurizes to the point you’d swear there were bass shakers in the sofa and you can just feel the pressure with the door closed.

Without a house curve none of the things I just described exist in my room. By comparison the room is just dead and boring without the house curve.
The are two major advantages for me with a house curve. The first is the greatly improved bass. I don't have ported subs and don't have a sealed room. However, the sub boost of 6 makes a significant difference.
The second advantage has to do with treble. With a tilt of -8 starting at 500hz, I can set the volume at -12 instead of -15 without any harsh or unpleasant tones. I'm probably playing louder than you because of a large, unsealed room. My home theater is also carpet over concrete, so with sealed subs we don't get that rumble or the rush of cool air. However, the bass boost still has a significant effect.
Thanks for sharing your impressions.
 

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Discussion Starter #83
Hey guys I've been trying to figure out why I love the house curve with my miniDSP 2x4 HD so much more than using a house curve with Genesis with the Deep Bass Boost combined with the Deep Bass Boost Frequency. I really want to get rid of the miniDSP 2x4 HD and just use Genesis for my house curve. The house curve through Genesis and the miniDSP 2x4 HD achieve the same seat of the pants feeling, but the sound is different. The house curve with the miniDSP sounds so much cleaner and the bass is clearer and uncluttered compared to using Genesis for a house curve. I’ve been trying to figure out why the Genesis house feels the same as the miniDSP house curve but just doesn’t sound nearly as good.

Well just by luck while I was typing up the steps on how to build a house curve in Genesis for a fellow AVS-er I noticed something while going through the steps in Genesis. I noticed in Genesis as I increased the Deep Bass Boost that it not only increases the bass for the sub it also increases the bass for EVERY single speaker in your system so you get a house curve built on every speaker in your system not just the sub. If you set the Deep Bass Boost Frequency to say 50Hz and the Deep Bass Boost to 6dB every speaker gets a house curve from 50Hz downward. Just try it and look at the low end of all your speakers get a house curve.

With the miniDSP house curve it’s only effecting the sub but in Genesis every speaker is getting a house curve so that’s why the Genesis house curve sounds different than the miniDSP house curve. To me the Genies house curve just sounds muddied compared to the the miniDSP house curve but at least now I know why I have to keep my miniDSP.. I want a house curve on my sub not all my speakers.


Also since the Deep Bass Boost and Deep Bass Boost Frequency are on the "System Wide Target" screen for each profile I should have known these settings would effect all speakers not just the sub.
I know you are knowledgeable, so I don't really understand why you are having this effect with the Bass Boost in Genesis if you are using crossovers. My 7 speakers are all crossed at 80hz. Therefore, the entire Bass Boost, which for me starts at 40hz, can only be sent to the subs.

Is there something I'm not understanding?

The advantage of a house curve for my 2.2 stereo using a minidsp with dirac is that I can precisely pinpoint the curve. For example, I have 22 hz raised 6db, 200hz lowered to -4db and 16000hz lowered an additional -4. I can't be quite this precise with Genesis. However, with a Bass Boost of -6 starting at 40hz and a tilt of +8 starting at 500hz, it sounds very good.
 

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I also have not understood the apparent support for Audyssey versus ARC.



So there are 4 of us. What do we do now? Anybody know?
Make that 5 in support!
 

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Discussion Starter #86
Administrator might have to make it a sticky? Dunno, but I'd support that! Not sure what criteria are required for that though....
There's one for Audessey. Never understood why their isn't one for ARC.
Count me in I'd support making it a sticky too. Not sure what the criteria is but the thread is approaching 100 post.
Make that 5 in support!
I've sent an e-mail to the administrator asking about making this thread a sticky.
 

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Discussion Starter #87
What is a house curve

I'm new to genesis and don't understand the house curve term. Can anyone explain it and what settings to use?
"In the most general sense, a house curve is an EQ setting to make your speakers sound better in your room." Kerry Ames

This is most often accomplished by increasing bass as you get to lower hz, i.e. Bass Boost and Deep Bass Boost Center Frequency and decreasing dbs as you go higher in hz, ie. tilt and tilt frequency.

If you use Genesis in professional mode, you can make changes and see what the resulting curves look like and then close the program without saving the changes if you don't want to hear what the changes actually sound like. This was the method I used to experiment and learn the program before uploading the 4 profiles I now prefer.
 

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I know you are knowledgeable, so I don't really understand why you are having this effect with the Bass Boost in Genesis if you are using crossovers. My 7 speakers are all crossed at 80hz. Therefore, the entire Bass Boost, which for me starts at 40hz, can only be sent to the subs.

Is there something I'm not understanding?

The advantage of a house curve for my 2.2 stereo using a minidsp with dirac is that I can precisely pinpoint the curve. For example, I have 22 hz raised 6db, 200hz lowered to -4db and 16000hz lowered an additional -4. I can't be quite this precise with Genesis. However, with a Bass Boost of -6 starting at 40hz and a tilt of +8 starting at 500hz, it sounds very good.
Yeah I'm not sure why the deep bass boost doesn't sound as good as just using the miniDSP. The only thing I can attribute it to is it adding a house curve to all the speakers vs the miniDSP just adding a house curve of the sub. Even though all my speakers are crossed over where Genesis set them at 80 Hz (110 for the center).

Just like how room gain is a system wide setting and raises the bass of not just the sub but all the speakers, the deep bass boost is doing the same thing except where room gain is a bump (at the default setting) at 200 Hz the deep bass boost effects a very wide range say from 45 Hz to 15Hz (if the frequency is set at 45) and it doesn’t just effect the mains but all the speaker graphs show they are increased to have a house curve from the boost frequency downward. By right even though they are crossed over at say 80 Hz all the speakers would be sending more bass to the sub if there bass was increased like the graphs show. So we would be getting LFE + more bass from all the other speakers to the sub.

I would have never noticed any difference and would have probably thought it sounded great but by comparison to just the miniDSP adding a house curve to just the sub alone the deep bass boost sounds bloated and muddied but only at high volume and low frequencies. At normal levels I can’t tell the difference. I’m not saying there is anything wrong with the deep bass boost it seems to work exactly as Anthem designed and intended it to work. It’s just that in my system when compared to the miniDSP it doesn’t sounds nearly as good for a house curve.
 

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I've sent an e-mail to the administrator asking about making this thread a sticky.

Thanks! Do keep us posted! :)
 

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Yeah I'm not sure why the deep bass boost doesn't sound as good as just using the miniDSP. The only thing I can attribute it to is it adding a house curve to all the speakers vs the miniDSP just adding a house curve of the sub. Even though all my speakers are crossed over where Genesis set them at 80 Hz (110 for the center).

Just like how room gain is a system wide setting and raises the bass of not just the sub but all the speakers, the deep bass boost is doing the same thing except where room gain is a bump (at the default setting) at 200 Hz the deep bass boost effects a very wide range say from 45 Hz to 15Hz (if the frequency is set at 45) and it doesn’t just effect the mains but all the speaker graphs show they are increased to have a house curve from the boost frequency downward. By right even though they are crossed over at say 80 Hz all the speakers would be sending more bass to the sub if there bass was increased like the graphs show. So we would be getting LFE + more bass from all the other speakers to the sub.

I would have never noticed any difference and would have probably thought it sounded great but by comparison to just the miniDSP adding a house curve to just the sub alone the deep bass boost sounds bloated and muddied but only at high volume and low frequencies. At normal levels I can’t tell the difference. I’m not saying there is anything wrong with the deep bass boost it seems to work exactly as Anthem designed and intended it to work. It’s just that in my system when compared to the miniDSP it doesn’t sounds nearly as good for a house curve.
I wonder if playing with the Low Frequency Extension setting might get you better results?
 

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I wonder if playing with the Low Frequency Extension setting might get you better results?
I could try it but my subs are capable of 15Hz extension and REW shows that in my 13x24 sealed theater they play down to around 13Hz before dropping off substantially. I'd hate to limit their performance by raising the low frequency extension because I get so much ultra low bass below 20 Hz that it gives a big tactile feeling and pressurizes the room. I'll just continue to use the miniDSP and it's sub only house curve. I just wanted to be able to remove the miniDSP from the signal path to have one less thing in my system. I really don't see anything wrong with the deep bass boost. It's just something that doesn't sound right in my system at deep bass and high volume.
 

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Hey guys I've been trying to figure out why I love the house curve with my miniDSP 2x4 HD so much more than using a house curve with Genesis with the Deep Bass Boost combined with the Deep Bass Boost Frequency. I really want to get rid of the miniDSP 2x4 HD and just use Genesis for my house curve. The house curve through Genesis and the miniDSP 2x4 HD achieve the same seat of the pants feeling, but the sound is different. The house curve with the miniDSP sounds so much cleaner and the bass is clearer and uncluttered compared to using Genesis for a house curve. I’ve been trying to figure out why the Genesis house feels the same as the miniDSP house curve but just doesn’t sound nearly as good.

Well just by luck while I was typing up the steps on how to build a house curve in Genesis for a fellow AVS-er I noticed something while going through the steps in Genesis. I noticed in Genesis as I increased the Deep Bass Boost that it not only increases the bass for the sub it also increases the bass for EVERY single speaker in your system so you get a house curve built on every speaker in your system not just the sub. If you set the Deep Bass Boost Frequency to say 50Hz and the Deep Bass Boost to 6dB every speaker gets a house curve from 50Hz downward. Just try it and look at the low end of all your speakers get a house curve.

With the miniDSP house curve it’s only effecting the sub but in Genesis every speaker is getting a house curve so that’s why the Genesis house curve sounds different than the miniDSP house curve. To me the Genies house curve just sounds muddied compared to the the miniDSP house curve but at least now I know why I have to keep my miniDSP.. I want a house curve on my sub not all my speakers.


Also since the Deep Bass Boost and Deep Bass Boost Frequency are on the "System Wide Target" screen for each profile I should have known these settings would effect all speakers not just the sub.

Great information here. I havnt installed Genesis yet on my MRX510 but recently bought a 2X4HD and was starting to wonder if I actually needed it which the advancements I am seeing with the new RC. As I want to try BEQ, I was thinking I would still use the Mini DSP but this info helps before I make the plunge.

You and @WLC seem to be talking about my next observation which is why Deep Base might change the other speakers when those speakers are crossed at 80hz or higher.
 

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Discussion Starter #94
Disappointed

Thanks! Do keep us posted! :)
Here's the response:

Hello,

For threads not created by staff, we typically only stick threads that have maintained a long history of regular informative posts in excess of 1000.

Many complain that there are already too many threads stuck to the top.

Thank You
 

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Here's the response:

Hello,

For threads not created by staff, we typically only stick threads that have maintained a long history of regular informative posts in excess of 1000.

Many complain that there are already too many threads stuck to the top.

Thank You
Just to keep this informative, why doesn't Genesis measure phase information for the AVM-60? Genesis has the capability, the AVM-60 just isn't supported and I wonder why not?
 

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Discussion Starter #96
Low frequency extension

I could try it but my subs are capable of 15Hz extension and REW shows that in my 13x24 sealed theater they play down to around 13Hz before dropping off substantially. I'd hate to limit their performance by raising the low frequency extension because I get so much ultra low bass below 20 Hz that it gives a big tactile feeling and pressurizes the room. I'll just continue to use the miniDSP and it's sub only house curve. I just wanted to be able to remove the miniDSP from the signal path to have one less thing in my system. I really don't see anything wrong with the deep bass boost. It's just something that doesn't sound right in my system at deep bass and high volume.
I'm with you. REW shows my subs rising 3 db from 20 down to 10hz. No way I'd be interested in giving that up.
 

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Here's the response:

Hello,

For threads not created by staff, we typically only stick threads that have maintained a long history of regular informative posts in excess of 1000.

Many complain that there are already too many threads stuck to the top.

Thank You

Well, that sucks. Maybe we'll get there one day. We're almost 10% there for that 1000 posts....:rolleyes: People complain that there are too may already stuck to the top? There are only 6 in this sub-forum. Heck, I'd ditch that Pioneer one for this one. Funny what people complain about....


Thanks for your efforts though!
 
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Hey I really want to thank all you guys for starting this thread and all the great information that can be found here.
I ran Genesis when it first came out and wound up going back to my ARC2 setting. It was because of my lack of knowledge with the new ARC.

Well I've been lurking on here, reading and learning... today I took the plunge with Genesis and I'm glad I did..!

My theater sounds fantastic now!!!

Thanks guys.
Keep up the hard work.
 
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Discussion Starter #100
Alternate Plan

Well, that sucks. Maybe we'll get there one day. We're almost 10% there for that 1000 posts....:rolleyes: People complain that there are too may already stuck to the top? There are only 6 in this sub-forum. Heck, I'd ditch that Pioneer one for this one. Funny what people complain about....


Thanks for your efforts though!
Thanks for the kind words. Maybe everyone who wants this thread to succeed should add "Dedicated Arc Genesis Thread" to their signatures. That way, whenever one of us posts on another Anthem thread about Genesis, we will be advertising this thread.

Just a thought.
 
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