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I just want to say, (I know some will despise me here for whinging :) ) Updated the FW on the 720 in hope to fix the speakers level issues being too high, well now the test noise has stopped completely in he AVR and Dolby offset is sky high at +12db. Getting better day by day.
 

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I just want to say, (I know some will despise me here for whinging :) ) Updated the FW on the 720 in hope to fix the speakers level issues being too high, well now the test noise has stopped completely in he AVR and Dolby offset is sky high at +12db. Getting better day by day.
Which firmware update was that?
 

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I just want to say, (I know some will despise me here for whinging :) ) Updated the FW on the 720 in hope to fix the speakers level issues being too high, well now the test noise has stopped completely in he AVR and Dolby offset is sky high at +12db. Getting better day by day.
Try adjusting the Dolby offset from +12 to 0 for all your profiles and there is probably one of them that gets louder as you go from +12 to 0. I had the same issue and it was acting like just one of them was the master for the others.
 

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Try adjusting the Dolby offset from +12 to 0 for all your profiles and there is one probably one of them that it gets louder and you go from +12 to 0. I had the same issue and it was acting like just one of them was acting as the master for the others.
yeah interesting.
 

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Try adjusting the Dolby offset from +12 to 0 for all your profiles and there is probably one of them that gets louder as you go from +12 to 0. I had the same issue and it was acting like just one of them was the master for the others.
I have commented on this before. Whatever profile is assigned to the input that is currently selected will allow the Dolby Offset to work.

It can't say I really know what it does, but it will have no affect other than on the currently selected input/profile.
 

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I have commented on the before. Whatever profile is assigned to the input that is currently selected will allow the Dolby Offset to work.

It can't say I really know what it does, but it will have no affect other than on the currently selected input/profile.
Ah OK so that's why. Makes sense though. Thanks for the heads up:cool:.
 

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None of them got any louder. Plus as mentioned the FW killed the test tones completely.
 

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[...] I've tried a lot of different MaxEQ values over the last couple of years. [...] After upgrading speakers, the best results seem to be obtained with the Anthem default of 5k Hz. That works pretty well but as can be seen in the graph below there's a sag above the 5K threshold. It's a compromise and sounds pretty good. [...]
Good call-out!
Bill, thanks for the comments!

Based on your graphs, if my impression is right, you'll be getting a step-down in FR above 5 kHz or so (because your speakers' response is below the target line for most of that range). That's not necessarily bad; with today's aggressive recording techniques, it might be just the ticket. You probably could achieve a flatter FR through that region by raising the gain of those speakers by 1-2 dB. Again, that might or might not be a good idea, depending on the speakers, the room, the sort of material you listen to, and your preferences.
 

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Bill, thanks for the comments!

Based on your graphs, if my impression is right, you'll be getting a step-down in FR above 5 kHz or so (because your speakers' response is below the target line for most of that range). That's not necessarily bad; with today's aggressive recording techniques, it might be just the ticket. You probably could achieve a flatter FR through that region by raising the gain of those speakers by 1-2 dB. Again, that might or might not be a good idea, depending on the speakers, the room, the sort of material you listen to, and your preferences.
That's been my conclusion as well and it sounds good so... why fix what isn't broken? Still, it's hard not to tinker with this. After going back thru this thread I've started playing with tilt, bass boost, etc. Based on results so far, I clearly have a lot to learn!
:)
 

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What version of the firmware are you running? Are you running the latest release 1.4.095 or a beta version?
Beta. The sub test tone was broken over +4db (I am quite sure it got stuffed when I upgraded to the latest stable version) but now all of them are completely.
 

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Channel Imbalance

I can't say I have a similar issue, but something quite close. Also I don't want to say it's a Genesis bug or whatsoever in that way. However I am extremely curious and I need to understand.
The poor configuration of my listening room being not symmetrical has led Genesis 1.2.2.0 to a strange correction: The whole frequency range of the right channel has its gain lowered of 2.7dB. I am running a 2.1 system and my question is why I can't see these -2.7dB somewhere in Genesis? There are a lot of values that (are) can be adjusted, as the gain of the front speakers, but my speakers level in Genesis have the same gain: +4.0dB... Supposing that the right channel is really playing louder I should see something as the right front speaker with 2.5dB less than the left front, no?
When ARC is engaged I have to add +1.5dB on the right channel to get the singers in the center. But not 2.7dB...as it's too much.
A couple of thoughts:

(1) You could take another listen with mono playback. How many dB of balance shift does it then take to get the sound centered?

(2) Your REW plots show objectively that something odd is going on. If Genesis is not reporting that it's making an unbalanced change (you might generate the default PDF file of ARC results and post it), then it does seem to be a bug that's causing one channel to be louder than the other. I encourage you to report this from the "Report an Issue" entry under the ARC "Help" menu. Nothing gets fixed unless it's reported!

And a P.S. It's not clear how it might affect your setup, but I have had problems with automatic bass management in 1.2.2. In ARC, make sure all your profiles have 2 mains and 1 sub selected. And after you send the ARC filters to your processor, open the processor's Speaker Setup menu to make sure that the correct speaker complement is selected.

Oh, I'm not sure I understand your plots. Can you plot R with ARC and L with ARC on the same axis, then both channels without ARC in the second graph? That would be a simpler way of seeing the channel imbalance -- it should appear in the plot with ARC and not in the plot without ARC. At least, I would find that easier to interpret.

Do you have an STR? If so, integrated or preamp?
 

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After upgrading speakers, the best results seem to be obtained with the Anthem default of 5k Hz. That works pretty well but as can be seen in the graph below there's a sag above the 5K threshold. It's a compromise and sounds pretty good.
If you want to minimize the step down above 5 kHz, have you tried shifting the EQ curve down a dB? IIRC it's in the Genesis target menu. Then it will target the EQ correction a dB lower, thus blending better above the EQ transition.
 

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Channel Imbalance

A couple of thoughts:

(1) You could take another listen with mono playback. How many dB of balance shift does it then take to get the sound centered?

(2) Your REW plots show objectively that something odd is going on. If Genesis is not reporting that it's making an unbalanced change (you might generate the default PDF file of ARC results and post it), then it does seem to be a bug that's causing one channel to be louder than the other. I encourage you to report this from the "Report an Issue" entry under the ARC "Help" menu. Nothing gets fixed unless it's reported!

And a P.S. It's not clear how it might affect your setup, but I have had problems with automatic bass management in 1.2.2. In ARC, make sure all your profiles have 2 mains and 1 sub selected. And after you send the ARC filters to your processor, open the processor's Speaker Setup menu to make sure that the correct speaker complement is selected.

Oh, I'm not sure I understand your plots. Can you plot R with ARC and L with ARC on the same axis, then both channels without ARC in the second graph? That would be a simpler way of seeing the channel imbalance -- it should appear in the plot with ARC and not in the plot without ARC. At least, I would find that easier to interpret.

Do you have an STR? If so, integrated or preamp?



Dear Mike in NC,


1) I discovered this unbalanced issue by listening to music and then I performed the tests in mono. I noticed that 1.5dB was necessary for proper balance. I also did it by using mono records => same results (it makes sense :)).
2) I generated the PDF report via "Create a PDF of ARC Genesis Results" and sent it to Anthem => I had a good support, no, problem, but the answer is "That's normal", no issue. I can believe that, no problem, but I also would like to understand.
3) I have 2 Profiles: One with subs and one without. Both of them have the same strange correction on the right channel.
4) I enclosed in this answer what I sent to Anthem support in addition to the ARC3 file and the PDF report. Here is 2 plots you asked me + 2 plots of ARC vs noArc per channel.

5) What I posted before is a superposition of the correction curve "captured" in the ARC Genesis report and the real correction measured by REW (from ARC - noARC) and enclosed in this reply. The plots have the same vertical and horizontal axis.

6) I have a STR pre-amplifier
7) It looks like (and I need to spend time on it) ARC Genesis is measuring the energy difference from both channel and applies a non-visible shift on one channel (and on the whole range of frequency).



Many thanks,
 

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If you want to minimize the step down above 5 kHz, have you tried shifting the EQ curve down a dB? IIRC it's in the Genesis target menu. Then it will target the EQ correction a dB lower, thus blending better above the EQ transition.
Thanks, Roger. That's a great idea. Gotta give that a try this week!
 

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7) It looks like (and I need to spend time on it) ARC Genesis is measuring the energy difference from both channel and applies a non-visible shift on one channel (and on the whole range of frequency).

I made some calculation based on the average SPL for 2 cases: One on the whole bandwidth and one from 202Hz to 1KHz.
When looking at Left - Right, we can see that the left speaker is playing a bit louder than the right one (+0.2dB on the full range or 1.1dB on reduced range). In any case the right speaker is playing louder...
I can see nothing that could explain such gain reduction by ARC on the right channel.


Thanks in advance for your feedback
 

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rorosone;59379064 [... said:
2) I generated the PDF report via "Create a PDF of ARC Genesis Results" and sent it to Anthem => I had a good support, no, problem, but the answer is "That's normal", no issue. I can believe that, no problem, but I also would like to understand. [...]
6) I have a STR pre-amplifier
7) It looks like (and I need to spend time on it) ARC Genesis is measuring the energy difference from both channel and applies a non-visible shift on one channel (and on the whole range of frequency).
Many thanks,
If you get a chance, would you post the PDF here, please?

I do not agree with Anthem tech support that this is normal. The PDF may look normal, but the independently measured results do not. Their tech support staff is a bunch of really good people, but in my impression, they are overwhelmed by questions about Genesis and might not always take as much time with an issue as it deserves.

Are you sure that your measurements are symmetrical around the main listening position? Being off there could throw things off. If your room is audibly asymmetrical, I would expect ARC to come up with slightly different gains for the R and L channels.

I have an STR Preamp, and in ONE case out of many measurement and parameter choices, ARC did come up with a set of filters that threw the inter-channel balance off considerably. Though that's not the topic to which you responded (matching level above fmax), it seems to be the same bug, and I've found it hard to reproduce. See this link. If we have experienced the same bug, I'm not sure how to get Anthem's attention on this, but let's keep trying.
 

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Channel Imbalance

Ooops, sorry, I forgot to attach it.
I removed the first pages as linked to the 2x2 (profile 1) that is exactly presenting the same "issue".

Please consider Profile 2 as we have only 2 speakers and this is representative of my concern.



To reply to your question,: Yes, I paid a lot of attention on the microphone position (symmetrical to MLP) and globally to the whole measurement. As you can see with my "superposition" plots, the real correction matches perfectly with the ARC report. So yes, I think I made good measurements. I can not only hear this louder sound on the left channel bu also it appears on the REW measurements, but the difference is not matching because 1.5dB more on the right channel (balance) is sufficient although I measured 2.6 / 2.7dB.

That's clear that Anthem is overwhelmed and that's why I don't want to put pressure on them with a concern which may be something I do not understand or master.
What is making me wondering is this gain ship appears nowhere in ARC Genesis neither in the PDF report...


I had already a look at the link you mentioned but I don't think it could be similar and linked.

Thanks for your help
 

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Channel imbalance

Ooops, sorry, I forgot to attach it.
I removed the first pages as linked to the 2x2 (profile 1) that is exactly presenting the same "issue".

Please consider Profile 2 as we have only 2 speakers and this is representative of my concern.

To reply to your question,: Yes, I paid a lot of attention on the microphone position (symmetrical to MLP) and globally to the whole measurement. As you can see with my "superposition" plots, the real correction matches perfectly with the ARC report. So yes, I think I made good measurements. I can not only hear this louder sound on the left channel bu also it appears on the REW measurements, but the difference is not matching because 1.5dB more on the right channel (balance) is sufficient although I measured 2.6 / 2.7dB.

That's clear that Anthem is overwhelmed and that's why I don't want to put pressure on them with a concern which may be something I do not understand or master.
What is making me wondering is this gain ship appears nowhere in ARC Genesis neither in the PDF report...


I had already a look at the link you mentioned but I don't think it could be similar and linked.

Thanks for your help
Interesting. I don't see anything in the PDF that reflects the issue.

I do suspect what you've encountered is the same as my issue (the one here). In both your and my incidents, nothing in the measurements, ARC screens, or PDF files hints at a channel imbalance, but the resulting filters cause a channel imbalance. I'd bet money that is a subtle bug somewhere in the calculations -- maybe a number is being overwritten mistakenly, a subscript is wrong, or array bounds are being exceeded. This is not a misunderstanding on your part!

I hope you will ask Anthem Tech Support to forward your arc3 and pdf files to the development team and report this as a bug.
 
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