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Yes, Go back to your measurement setup 2 profiles. Name one Cinema Name the other Music. Go to select Speakers, on Cinema select all your speakers. On Music select the fronts deselect the others. Go to Adjust Targets on Cinema set channels to 80hz, sub to 120hz. Check Music profile should be full range now.
But to be clear, that is after or before running ARC?
 

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Genesis will use the same measurement since they are performed full range on every channel. You'll see once you add it, Genesis will autodetect the target.

Defining it before will allow you to create different measurements for example, if you wanted to do a wider position measurment for theater and a tighter measurements for a single seat listening position for music.

If you want to adjust some settings I recommend:

Crossover: 80hz all channels

+5 Room Gain
Room Gain Center freq 150
0 Deep Bass
Deep Bass Center freq 50
-3 Tilt
Tilt Freq 1000
All channels set to High Freq Roll off 2.77
Subwoofer 15hz low extension/correction, Slope:Flat

Max Correction 20K or 10K, 5K default correction setting for Theater and perhaps 350hz for Music profile if you wish to limit the correction.

Review the Summary, Save the File. Once you upload these new settings, you can customize the inputs and apply the theater profile to mulitchannel sources and the music to your music source inputs.
 

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Well I did it and it all seems to have worked. Thanks so much to Bob and eye. I will spend some time listening and let you folks know how it's all sounding. Thanks again!!!
 

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Spring Break Tweaking

The sound of the title is a little suspect. Maybe I should rethink it.:rolleyes:

I apologize for the long post, but I figure I can provide all the helpful information and ask all my questions up front. I appreciate anyone taking the time to read this, and helping a fellow MRX owner get the best out of their gear.

I’m on Spring Break this week. After the last three weeks on Zoom for faculty meetings and hosting Virtual Classes along with creating lots of new digital content for my Google Classroom, I am going to spend some much-needed ME TIME and make my system sound it’s best.

I currently have Genesis 1.0.1(8867). I’m guessing this isn’t one of the better versions. It seems most posters are mentioning 9006 and the new Beta as the two best options right now. Which one should I go with?

Before I measure:
1. I’ve been using a 3 – 4 year-old hp laptop. I was thinking of using my 3+ year-old MacBook Pro. Has anyone switched from one to the other that would advise against this?

2. My L/R speakers are currently at 17.5” with a slight toe-in (0.75” differential). I was thinking of moving them back to 13” (12” is min. recommended by KEF) w/o toe-in. Will this affect the 80 – 120Hz frequencies negatively? I already have some large dips with the front in the 70 – 100Hz range. I usually cross them over at 90Hz, and my subs at 120Hz to make sure those frequencies are well covered. I understand I might just have to bite the bullet and compare results, knowing there’s a chance I would have to move the speakers back to their current spot.

3. Would you change any of the following based on the sketch that I attached? We only sit on the couch. When it’s just me, I sit in the very middle of the couch(MLP). Details of my set up distances are below.
My setup and configuration:
a) L/R are 5.5’ apart. I might have 3” of wiggle room on the right, which would allow for 6’. MLP is 10.5’ away from LCRs.
b) I use a small “X” 5 mic positions. They are all based on the 6’ sitting width of my couch. MLP, 2’ L/R of MLP, and offset (1.5’ L/R and 8” behind MLP). My wall is just over 20” from the back of a listener’s head.
c) I calibrate my subs at MLP only.
d) I have never manually entered the distances for my speakers before running ARC. Now that I’m going to do this, should I round 0.5 feet up or down?

Sub Preferences and Settings:
I usually measure at 80dB (sometimes 85dB), and try to do a house curve (more of a slant given my results) that goes down gradually from 30 - 80Hz. I really don’t like when the high 60s-80Hz frequencies are at the same level as 20 – 60Hz frequencies. I would like it to be -5 dB in 65 - 70hz range and lower as it reaches 80Hz.

On-board Sub Settings:
  • 12Hz mode (optional 14 and 18)
  • Rumble Filter: Off
  • Dampening: Medium or High

Calibrating Methods
I have had mixed results with Genesis and the miniDSP depending on the order of calibration.
NOTE: I gain and phase match my subs before all other measurements. I needed to 5dB on miniDSP to the right sub, and I needed to add 5ms to my left sub in order to get the best initial readings in REW.

Method 1 (ARC off)
1. Use REW to run initial EQ sweeps and upload the initial Auto EQ Filters to the miniDSP.
2. Run ARC calibration.
3. Remeasure Sub using MLP for all 5 position sweeps. I’ve compared with the “X” placement, and results from REW were much better.
4. Use REW and set Manual EQ Filters in minDSP
5. Tweak as necessary

The above really helps with large dips and peaks that are really difficult to do manually.

Method 2 (I have had good results with this as well)
1. Run ARC
2. Remeasure Sub using MLP for all 5 position sweeps.
2. Use REW and upload initial Auto EQ Filters in miniDSP
3. Use REW and set Manual EQ Filters in miniDSP
4. Go back and make adjustments in ARC if necessary. I’ve experienced good results as well.

I’m assuming most use Method 1.

General Questions I have once I choose from the 2 methods above:

1. After ARC does the measurements, should I go back and remeasure the Sub at the MLP? If I’m using REW and miniDSP for only the MLP, using 5 different spots for ARC seem counterintuitive.
- I have had really great results with my house curve using a +3 to +5dB Deep Bass Boost at 60Hz. I also run the subs Flat, cross them over at 130Hz, and have ARC EQ as low as 15Hz.

2. How should I adjust my LCR and SL/SR?
    • Tilt Center closer to 50Hz and raising it a couple dBs
    • High-Freq. Roll Off, and if so, how much?
    • Max. Correction Freq.:I see that many posters have recommended keeping at 5k or setting below for music
    3. Is it okay to cross the L/R at 90Hz, Center at 80Hz, and the sub at 130Hz? The reason I ask is that there are significant dips for my front speakers in the 70s and 80s and Center 80s and 90s. These cause them to be anywhere from -15 to -5 dB (below 30Hz at 80dB)

    My subs have run -12dB to – 5dB (below 30Hz at 80dB) from 90 – 140Hz. I thought I read somewhere that the Center should still be crossed over at 80 or 90Hz because of some critical frequencies in vocals that fall around 90Hz. I think I also read that at 100Hz bass can be more “localized”. I haven’t really noticed this yet, but I am also not listening below a level of -30.
    Listening levels
    Movies/TV: -40 to -30
    Music (Anthem Logic Music): -60 to -40
    Gaming: -55 to -40.

    Once I have calibrated, I will be able to show ARC Targets and Projected results vs. the actual results via REW.

    -Matt
 

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The sound of the title is a little suspect. Maybe I should rethink it.:rolleyes:

I apologize for the long post, but I figure I can provide all the helpful information and ask all my questions up front. I appreciate anyone taking the time to read this, and helping a fellow MRX owner get the best out of their gear.

I’m on Spring Break this week. After the last three weeks on Zoom for faculty meetings and hosting Virtual Classes along with creating lots of new digital content for my Google Classroom, I am going to spend some much-needed ME TIME and make my system sound it’s best.

I currently have Genesis 1.0.1(8867). I’m guessing this isn’t one of the better versions. It seems most posters are mentioning 9006 and the new Beta as the two best options right now. Which one should I go with?


You could always try both. I never ran 9006, but just ran the Beta a few days ago. Sounds excellent


Before I measure:
1. I’ve been using a 3 – 4 year-old hp laptop. I was thinking of using my 3+ year-old MacBook Pro. Has anyone switched from one to the other that would advise against this?



No experience with the MAC version.


2. My L/R speakers are currently at 17.5” with a slight toe-in (0.75” differential). I was thinking of moving them back to 13” (12” is min. recommended by KEF) w/o toe-in. Will this affect the 80 – 120Hz frequencies negatively? I already have some large dips with the front in the 70 – 100Hz range. I usually cross them over at 90Hz, and my subs at 120Hz to make sure those frequencies are well covered. I understand I might just have to bite the bullet and compare results, knowing there’s a chance I would have to move the speakers back to their current spot.


Have you tried repositioning your speakers and using Quick Measure to see the impact on the response?


3. Would you change any of the following based on the sketch that I attached? We only sit on the couch. When it’s just me, I sit in the very middle of the couch(MLP). Details of my set up distances are below.
My setup and configuration:
a) L/R are 5.5’ apart. I might have 3” of wiggle room on the right, which would allow for 6’. MLP is 10.5’ away from LCRs.
b) I use a small “X” 5 mic positions. They are all based on the 6’ sitting width of my couch. MLP, 2’ L/R of MLP, and offset (1.5’ L/R and 8” behind MLP). My wall is just over 20” from the back of a listener’s head.
c) I calibrate my subs at MLP only.
d) I have never manually entered the distances for my speakers before running ARC. Now that I’m going to do this, should I round 0.5 feet up or down?



Don't need to enter the speaker distance before running ARC. Rounding up or down probably won't make a big difference. When I measured, I rounded up if distance was x' 6'' or higher, down if x'6" or lower


Sub Preferences and Settings:
I usually measure at 80dB (sometimes 85dB), and try to do a house curve (more of a slant given my results) that goes down gradually from 30 - 80Hz. I really don’t like when the high 60s-80Hz frequencies are at the same level as 20 – 60Hz frequencies. I would like it to be -5 dB in 65 - 70hz range and lower as it reaches 80Hz.

On-board Sub Settings:
  • 12Hz mode (optional 14 and 18)
  • Rumble Filter: Off
  • Dampening: Medium or High
Which subs are you running? Rythmik recommends Low Damping when running room EQ

Calibrating Methods
I have had mixed results with Genesis and the miniDSP depending on the order of calibration.
NOTE: I gain and phase match my subs before all other measurements. I needed to 5dB on miniDSP to the right sub, and I needed to add 5ms to my left sub in order to get the best initial readings in REW.

Method 1 (ARC off)
1. Use REW to run initial EQ sweeps and upload the initial Auto EQ Filters to the miniDSP.
2. Run ARC calibration.
3. Remeasure Sub using MLP for all 5 position sweeps. I’ve compared with the “X” placement, and results from REW were much better.
4. Use REW and set Manual EQ Filters in minDSP
5. Tweak as necessary

The above really helps with large dips and peaks that are really difficult to do manually.

Method 2 (I have had good results with this as well)
1. Run ARC
2. Remeasure Sub using MLP for all 5 position sweeps.
2. Use REW and upload initial Auto EQ Filters in miniDSP
3. Use REW and set Manual EQ Filters in miniDSP
4. Go back and make adjustments in ARC if necessary. I’ve experienced good results as well.

I’m assuming most use Method 1.


I'd use method 1, based on what I've read, if I had a miniDSP and multiple subs. However, it's my understanding that once you set the subs with REW, you then measure in ARC as "1". Don't think you are supposed to go back and tweak after ARC (unless you rerun ARC). I could be mistaken about this.


General Questions I have once I choose from the 2 methods above:

1. After ARC does the measurements, should I go back and remeasure the Sub at the MLP? If I’m using REW and miniDSP for only the MLP, using 5 different spots for ARC seem counterintuitive.


I don't think so.


- I have had really great results with my house curve using a +3 to +5dB Deep Bass Boost at 60Hz. I also run the subs Flat, cross them over at 130Hz, and have ARC EQ as low as 15Hz.

2. How should I adjust my LCR and SL/SR?
    • Tilt Center closer to 50Hz and raising it a couple dBs
    • High-Freq. Roll Off, and if so, how much?
    • Max. Correction Freq.:I see that many posters have recommended keeping at 5k or setting below for music
    3. Is it okay to cross the L/R at 90Hz, Center at 80Hz, and the sub at 130Hz? The reason I ask is that there are significant dips for my front speakers in the 70s and 80s and Center 80s and 90s. These cause them to be anywhere from -15 to -5 dB (below 30Hz at 80dB)


    Yes. You could also try a lower cross on the center (eg 60 or 70) as may improve dialog.



    My subs have run -12dB to – 5dB (below 30Hz at 80dB) from 90 – 140Hz. I thought I read somewhere that the Center should still be crossed over at 80 or 90Hz because of some critical frequencies in vocals that fall around 90Hz. I think I also read that at 100Hz bass can be more “localized”. I haven’t really noticed this yet, but I am also not listening below a level of -30.
    Listening levels
    Movies/TV: -40 to -30
    Music (Anthem Logic Music): -60 to -40
    Gaming: -55 to -40.

    Once I have calibrated, I will be able to show ARC Targets and Projected results vs. the actual results via REW.

    -Matt



  • My comments above....
 

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My comments above....
Thank you for your reply @madrac

My browser wasn’t allowing me to multi-quote for some reason, so I’m using copy/paste to show your comments with responses.

You could always try both. I never ran 9006, but just ran the Beta a few days ago. Sounds excellent
I will probably run the Beta.

No experience with the MAC version.
I think I’m going to try it. I already use my MAC for REW and miniDSP.

Have you tried repositioning your speakers and using Quick Measure to see the impact on the response?
Not yet. I’ll experiment with REW. I’ll also use the port bungs as well.
I also plan to quick measure my subs also. I can move them forward up to 12” or backward up to 6”

Don't need to enter the speaker distance before running ARC. Rounding up or down probably won't make a big difference. When I measured, I rounded up if distance was x' 6'' or higher, down if x'6" or lower
Good to know. I’ll probably just set them.

Which subs are you running? Rythmik recommends Low Damping when running room EQ
You are correct. I use to run it on Low Dampening. However, I found I was getting tighter responses at certain frequencies, and my lower frequencies were still robust. I will try it again though.

I'd use method 1, based on what I've read, if I had a miniDSP and multiple subs. However, it's my understanding that once you set the subs with REW, you then measure in ARC as "1". Don't think you are supposed to go back and tweak after ARC (unless you rerun ARC). I could be mistaken about this.
I think there are people on both sides of this. I have had pretty good corrections from the Auto EQ filters. Running ARC makes them a little tighter, and usually corrects the sharp dips I have between 38-40hz and 77-82Hz. It also tames a few peaks along the way. I can then go in and manually tweak for a tighter response.
I can run ARC last if I don’t get a response that I’m set on.

Yes. You could also try a lower cross on the center (eg 60 or 70) as may improve dialog.
I’m not missing anything on dialogue. Just was wondering if having the subs crossed over so high above the LCR would be an issue?
 

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Question for the masses.

I currently apply ARC Genesis up to 300 Hz.

I just ordered a miniDSP for my subwoofers. Once I calibrate my subs with REW/miniDSP, is there any reason at all to turn ARC on?

Wouldn't it just undo what the miniDSP is doing?
 

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Question for the masses.

I currently apply ARC Genesis up to 300 Hz.

I just ordered a miniDSP for my subwoofers. Once I calibrate my subs with REW/miniDSP, is there any reason at all to turn ARC on?

Wouldn't it just undo what the miniDSP is doing?

Turning off ARC will undo anything for all your other speakers. IME, ARC has done A LOT for some dips and peaks (especially sharp ones) that miniDSP alone hasn't been able to fix. For me it feels like a "Team Effort" between Auto EQ filters, Manual EQ Filters, and ARC for my best results up to this point.

If you don't want ARC to mess with your subs do the following In Adjust Targets Tab, in the System Wide Targets you can keep Deep Bass Curve at 0dB and then go to down to the sub settings and set your High Frequency Extension to your desired x-over point and set your Low-Freq. Ext. Slope (I try to match my miniDSP's roll-off). You can then bypass ARCs calculations for your Subs by setting the Minimum Correction Frequency to something above your x-over point.
 

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Turning off ARC will undo anything for all your other speakers. IME, ARC has done A LOT for some dips and peaks (especially sharp ones) that miniDSP alone hasn't been able to fix. For me it feels like a "Team Effort" between Auto EQ filters, Manual EQ Filters, and ARC for my best results up to this point.

If you don't want ARC to mess with your subs do the following In Adjust Targets Tab, in the System Wide Targets you can keep Deep Bass Curve at 0dB and then go to down to the sub settings and set your High Frequency Extension to your desired x-over point and set your Low-Freq. Ext. Slope (I try to match my miniDSP's roll-off). You can then bypass ARCs calculations for your Subs by setting the Minimum Correction Frequency to something above your x-over point.
I've done some additional researching, and yes, I can run ARC after setting up my subs without negatively affecting the miniDSP setup and filters. The two work together fine.

Like many people, I don't believe room correction is effective above the Schroeder frequency, which is about 250 Hz or so, because I have a symmetrical, dedicated theater room with decent room treatments in place. That's a whole different subject, but most only correct on the low end.
 

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Quick question. If I run REW in conjunction with ARC what’s the point besides seeing the measurements that REW records? would I then tweak settings in ARC to help corrections? Is it going to measure that much differently than the anthem mic? Also since I’m not using a minidsp or anything like that there are no ways to “load” the REW settings into the MRX?

My understanding is that it’s a “verification” of what ARC measured and may help me select better speaker placement?


Does REW measure more accurately above 5khz for those higher frequencies?

Thanks,
Tim


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Quick question. If I run REW in conjunction with ARC what’s the point besides seeing the measurements that REW records? would I then tweak settings in ARC to help corrections? Is it going to measure that much differently than the anthem mic? Also since I’m not using a minidsp or anything like that there are no ways to “load” the REW settings into the MRX?

My understanding is that it’s a “verification” of what ARC measured and may help me select better speaker placement?


Does REW measure more accurately above 5khz for those higher frequencies?

Thanks,
Tim

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It gives you a "true" picture what was actually done. ARC only shows you what it intends to do but without a control measurement there is no way to know what was the true outcome of the exercise. Yes once you have done your REW measurement you can then go back and tweak and keep tweaking until its the best possible outcome.
 

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I've done some additional researching, and yes, I can run ARC after setting up my subs without negatively affecting the miniDSP setup and filters. The two work together fine.

Like many people, I don't believe room correction is effective above the Schroeder frequency, which is about 250 Hz or so, because I have a symmetrical, dedicated theater room with decent room treatments in place. That's a whole different subject, but most only correct on the low end.
Agree, I only correct up to the point where my room treatment starts working which is 250ish Hz above that there isn't much benefit. I also EQ my sub before running ARC so it only has to smooth a little more over on the sub EQ. It works well I get a dead flat response between 30 and 60hz.
 

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It gives you a "true" picture what was actually done. ARC only shows you what it intends to do but without a control measurement there is no way to know what was the true outcome of the exercise. Yes once you have done your REW measurement you can then go back and tweak and keep tweaking until its the best possible outcome.

Ok makes sense and thank you for the reply. Is there always a “delta” between what ARC intends to do and what is actual? Other forum members I would appreciate your thoughts as well if you do a combo of ARC and REW


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Ok makes sense and thank you for the reply. Is there always a “delta” between what ARC intends to do and what is actual? Other forum members I would appreciate your thoughts as well if you do a combo of ARC and REW


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I agree with what others have said, and will add that after uploading your final Genesis solution to the Anthem, you can use REW to tweak the subwoofer channel distance setting in the Anthem to make sure the blend between your mains (or center channel) and the sub(s) is ideal. In many cases you'll need to add at least a few feet to the sub distance to blend properly. It can really tighten up the bass response since it makes sure all of the main channels and sub are firing at the same time. This is required since Genesis never runs a mains + sub measurement at the same time. Do a search for REW sub distance tweak for more info on how this accomplished. If you need specific links, check back and we'll dig for some that are applicable. Enjoy!
 
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Ok makes sense and thank you for the reply. Is there always a “delta” between what ARC intends to do and what is actual? Other forum members I would appreciate your thoughts as well if you do a combo of ARC and REW


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
And also remember that what you will see as a Genesis curve (solution) is a compromise or sum of multiple measurement positions. If you only take one REW measurement from a single position, it will always look different than what Genesis is displaying for corrected response. Make sense?
 
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Help on Choosing a Sub Profile

I put together 20 EQ profiles last night and attached a picture of the 6 I thought would be best to work off of.

So far, I have:
  1. Gain matched the 2 subs
  2. Assigned timing delay for best possible phase alignment.
  3. Imported Auto EQ Filters
Which profile measure would you use? I plan to set the Deep Bass Boost at 60Hz to drop down 5-8dB below 30Hz in the 70-80Hz range. I'm leaning 4.18 and 4.19, but would like to hear others' thoughts.

I plan to do both of the following and compare the results (have had best in the past using #2 ).
  1. Create filters using the manual PEQ first, run ARC, then tweak as necessary.
  2. Run ARC, then create the manual PEQ filters.
It's a really long process to measure each of these profile, so your help in narrowing down to one or two would be greatly appreciated.
 

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Genesis Beta

I just wanted to confirm that the Genesis Beta was for the software only not the firmware. My firmware is the same as what's available on the Anthemav.com. I was able to find the Beta software and download it. Am I good to go, or is there a FW update specifically for the new Beta?
 

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Just a quick practical query for you guys.
How do I programme Genesis to stop after the first 5 mike positions so I can try another cluster as profile 2 ?
I used to get a message after the first profile was downloaded giving me the option to try another profile with different settings but now,no.
Cheers.
 

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I just wanted to confirm that the Genesis Beta was for the software only not the firmware. My firmware is the same as what's available on the Anthemav.com. I was able to find the Beta software and download it. Am I good to go, or is there a FW update specifically for the new Beta?

There are betas for both Genesis and the Anthem firmware.


Beta firmware is MRXx20_USB_FW_16098_2020_01_03 (there is at least one link to it in either this thread or the Official owner's thread)
Beta Genesis is 1.2.2.0 (downloadable from Anthem's site). For me, when I run Genesis on this, it tells me there is a beta update, but I believe it is the same. As I recall, the beta update notification shows 1.2.2


That said, the beta FW is not specifically for the Genesis beta as far as I know. I do not have a change log for the beta FW. With the beta FW, there is at least one issue -- the internal test tones no longer work for me. Others have posted about the same, although at least one other has posted that these still work but have to be on an input with the same eq profile as the one using test tones. This work around doesn't work for me.
 
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