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Discussion Starter #1,501 (Edited)
Peculiar Action of Deep Bass Addition

I used REW to look at graphs of my 4 SVS SB16 subs. The effect of adding 6 dbs of Deep Bass had much different effects on the subs than I would have imagined. As you can see from the accompanying graphs, the Deep Bass addition reduced the amount of bass below about 33 hz by as much as 2.5dbs. It also reduced room gain by as much as 3 dbs. I have no idea why this occurred. However, my system sounds much better without the Deep Bass. Chest Punch and the ULF effects sound more powerful.

This result nagged at me enough that I did further testing. The graph is wrong because the two different settings were incorrectly played at 2 different sub levels.
Sorry for my carelessness.
 

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I used REW to look at graphs of my 4 SVS SB16 subs. The effect of adding 6 dbs of Deep Bass had much different effects on the subs than I would have imagined. As you can see from the accompanying graphs, the Deep Bass addition reduced the amount of bass below about 33 hz by as much as 2.5dbs. It also reduced room gain by as much as 3 dbs. I have no idea why this occurred. However, my system sounds much better without the Deep Bass. Chest Punch and the ULF effects sound more powerful.
That is very odd looking. I wonder if that is the intended (by Anthem) response, or if it's some kind of bug. What do you think?
 

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As you can see from the accompanying graphs, the Deep Bass addition reduced the amount of bass below about 33 hz by as much as 2.5dbs. It also reduced room gain by as much as 3 dbs. I have no idea why this occurred. However, my system sounds much better without the Deep Bass. Chest Punch and the ULF effects sound more powerful.
I use a miniDSP 2x4 HD for a house curve and when they introduced the Bass Boost I though it would be a way for me to create a house curve and remove the miniDSP from the signal path.

I tried it over and and and each time I was getting less of a punch with Bass Boost vs the miniDSP for the same house curve. I was never able to explain it or figure out why the miniDSP gives a really nice punch and the Bass Boost just seems lifeless by comparison. If the Bass Boost reduces room gain by 3dB and bass at a certain frequency by 2.5dB then a 5.5dB decrease would account for why the punch was gone. You may have just answered the question for me.
 

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There are betas for both Genesis and the Anthem firmware.


Beta firmware is MRXx20_USB_FW_16098_2020_01_03 (there is at least one link to it in either this thread or the Official owner's thread)
Beta Genesis is 1.2.2.0 (downloadable from Anthem's site). For me, when I run Genesis on this, it tells me there is a beta update, but I believe it is the same. As I recall, the beta update notification shows 1.2.2


That said, the beta FW is not specifically for the Genesis beta as far as I know. I do not have a change log for the beta FW. With the beta FW, there is at least one issue -- the internal test tones no longer work for me. Others have posted about the same, although at least one other has posted that these still work but have to be on an input with the same eq profile as the one using test tones. This work around doesn't work for me.
Thank you @madrac. I had updated the software from the website, but couldn't find the FW to go with it. I did find the FW update on this thread yesterday, but I was hesitant to download from someone's Drive. Thank you for mentioning it again. If I can't get this to work, I can just reinstall the non-Beta version of Genesis and start from scratch.

I noticed the following when I updated the software, but kept the FW the same on the 1120. Note: I ran the miniDSP at 0dB - Usually I run it at -2dB for ARC to allow the measure to be taken.

  1. LCR - Suggested Crossover at 80 Hz. Previously suggested at 100 and 110. This could be because of the new positioning also.
  2. LRC - Trim levels +5,+6,+5. Previously +8, +9,+8
  3. Subwoofer was at -5. It used to be set at +5. This was the most dramatic change.
  4. ARC destroyed my miniDSP curve. It was all over the place. Even when I ran it with no Deep Bass Boost.
 

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Thank you @madrac. I had updated the software from the website, but couldn't find the FW to go with it. I did find the FW update on this thread yesterday, but I was hesitant to download from someone's Drive. Thank you for mentioning it again. If I can't get this to work, I can just reinstall the non-Beta version of Genesis and start from scratch.

I noticed the following when I updated the software, but kept the FW the same on the 1120. Note: I ran the miniDSP at 0dB - Usually I run it at -2dB for ARC to allow the measure to be taken.

  1. LCR - Suggested Crossover at 80 Hz. Previously suggested at 100 and 110. This could be because of the new positioning also.
  2. LRC - Trim levels +5,+6,+5. Previously +8, +9,+8
  3. Subwoofer was at -5. It used to be set at +5. This was the most dramatic change.
  4. ARC destroyed my miniDSP curve. It was all over the place. Even when I ran it with no Deep Bass Boost.
If the LCR trim levels decreased, it makes sense that the sub would also. But -3db vs -10db seem like a bit much.

I have noticed the same decrease as you with regards to the LCR which still strike me as being high. Dirac Live centered everything around 0db, + or - depending on which speaker is being measured. I have no idea why ARC starts in the high plus range +6. I guess it makes no difference as long as everything is properly calibrated, but it does seem strange.
 

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Thank you @madrac. I had updated the software from the website, but couldn't find the FW to go with it. I did find the FW update on this thread yesterday, but I was hesitant to download from someone's Drive. Thank you for mentioning it again. If I can't get this to work, I can just reinstall the non-Beta version of Genesis and start from scratch.
You shouldn't need to have the beta of both. If you have a version of the Firmware installed on your device that allows for ARC Genesis, it should work with any version of the Genesis software, beta or otherwise. Even if it tells you there's a new version, just skip past that and it will still work.
 

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If the LCR trim levels decreased, it makes sense that the sub would also. But -3db vs -10db seem like a bit much.

I have noticed the same decrease as you with regards to the LCR which still strike me as being high. Dirac Live centered everything around 0db, + or - depending on which speaker is being measured. I have no idea why ARC starts in the high plus range +6. I guess it makes no difference as long as everything is properly calibrated, but it does seem strange.
The difference in the subs is for sure what strikes me as well. I probably should have looked more carefully at the response curve to see if there was a particular frequency range that was abnormally high. Maybe ARC uses a frequency range that it extra high as it's measure? But why wouldn't it just apply filters?

What was really alarming though was that my overall frequency curve didn't get smoother. I even remeasured the sub and the mic at the MLP all 5 sweeps, and it still was off. This has worked amazingly in the past.
 

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Discussion Starter #1,508
Peculiar Deep Bass

That is very odd looking. I wonder if that is the intended (by Anthem) response, or if it's some kind of bug. What do you think?
I can't imagine it's intended. Deep Bass Boost is unusable, at least for me.

I use a miniDSP 2x4 HD for a house curve and when they introduced the Bass Boost I though it would be a way for me to create a house curve and remove the miniDSP from the signal path.

I tried it over and and and each time I was getting less of a punch with Bass Boost vs the miniDSP for the same house curve. I was never able to explain it or figure out why the miniDSP gives a really nice punch and the Bass Boost just seems lifeless by comparison. If the Bass Boost reduces room gain by 3dB and bass at a certain frequency by 2.5dB then a 5.5dB decrease would account for why the punch was gone. You may have just answered the question for me.
I have a stereo system with a mini-dsp with Dirac. A house curve created with Dirac, at least in my stereo system, works as intended. With Anthem, doesn't. It's good to get reassurance that problem isn't just with my system.
 

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You shouldn't need to have the beta of both. If you have a version of the Firmware installed on your device that allows for ARC Genesis, it should work with any version of the Genesis software, beta or otherwise. Even if it tells you there's a new version, just skip past that and it will still work.
Good to know. I'm going to give it one more shot to try and smooth out my sub curve. If it doesn't, I will use my other computer (hp laptop), which I did not upgrade the software.

Is it possible this is a IOS vs. Windows issue? Doubtful as the software should be the same, and if there were any issues with IOS, it wouldn't be available until bugs were fixed.
 

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The difference in the subs is for sure what strikes me as well. I probably should have looked more carefully at the response curve to see if there was a particular frequency range that was abnormally high. Maybe ARC uses a frequency range that it extra high as it's measure? But why wouldn't it just apply filters?

What was really alarming though was that my overall frequency curve didn't get smoother. I even remeasured the sub and the mic at the MLP all 5 sweeps, and it still was off. This has worked amazingly in the past.
I just spoke with my dealer and, since I have only had this for a few days, he said I could send it back. I will play around with it over the weekend, but coming from Dirac Live, I am very disappointed in my experience with ARC, so far.
 

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I just spoke with my dealer and, since I have only had this for a few days, he said I could send it back. I will play around with it over the weekend, but coming from Dirac Live, I am very disappointed in my experience with ARC, so far.
I'm really sorry ARC hasn't been the upgrade from Dirac you were hoping. This is my first real issue with ARC in 2 + years. I know I can always go back to a previous version. Hopefully you can get the results you were expecting when you upgraded your receiver. It's always good to have a dealer that will allow for the return.
 

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I'm really sorry ARC hasn't been the upgrade from Dirac you were hoping. This is my first real issue with ARC in 2 + years. I know I can always go back to a previous version. Hopefully you can get the results you were expecting when you upgraded your receiver. It's always good to have a dealer that will allow for the return.
I wasn't really expecting an upgrade from Dirac, but the AVM 60 is definitely an upgrade over the NAD 777 v3. I just wish ARC worked correctly. Prior to your current issues, did ARC set the levels much above 0db? This is just one thing that strikes me as rather odd. And from what I gather, Anthem isn't the most customer friendly folks or is that not correct?

I know Flavio from Dirac is pretty active here. Anyone from Anthem check in?
 

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Whenever I’ve contacted Anthem I’ve always received a response within a few hours. I don’t know that they’re active here, but my philosophy regarding customer service has never been to post on a 3rd party forum and hope they see it.

How have you tried reaching out?

I'm really sorry ARC hasn't been the upgrade from Dirac you were hoping. This is my first real issue with ARC in 2 + years. I know I can always go back to a previous version. Hopefully you can get the results you were expecting when you upgraded your receiver. It's always good to have a dealer that will allow for the return.
I wasn't really expecting an upgrade from Dirac, but the AVM 60 is definitely an upgrade over the NAD 777 v3. I just wish ARC worked correctly. Prior to your current issues, did ARC set the levels much above 0db? This is just one thing that strikes me as rather odd. And from what I gather, Anthem isn't the most customer friendly folks or is that not correct?

I know Flavio from Dirac is pretty active here. Anyone from Anthem check in?
 

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I wasn't really expecting an upgrade from Dirac, but the AVM 60 is definitely an upgrade over the NAD 777 v3. I just wish ARC worked correctly. Prior to your current issues, did ARC set the levels much above 0db? This is just one thing that strikes me as rather odd. And from what I gather, Anthem isn't the most customer friendly folks or is that not correct?

I know Flavio from Dirac is pretty active here. Anyone from Anthem check in?
When I originally used it after purchase, settings were closer to +2 to +3 across the board with the sub at zero. ARC was really sensitive with the subwoofer, so I had to turn it way down. After a FW update, they went to +10 to +11 for the fronts and stayed at +6 for the surrounds.

When I upgraded last year to Genesis they went to +4 to +5. I wasn't using miniDSP or a second sub yet.

When I got the second sub and miniDSP, I would lower it down to -5dB on the miniDSP. The trims were raised back to +9, to +10 for the fronts.

With the Beta, I'm getting the really low sub trim, and my fronts are at the +5 to +6 range. However, the sub sweep was really loud during calibration. If I lowered it - 3 to 4dB, I'm sure I'd be closer to 0 for the fronts.

Are you running more than 1 sub? Have you tried measuring with your sub(s) gain down? Are you running XLR or a single RCA to the LFE? If XLR(s), do they send the same signal level as one RCA to LFE? I just wonder if you were to keep the Sub volume down if the trim levels would return closer to 0.
 

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Whenever I’ve contacted Anthem I’ve always received a response within a few hours. I don’t know that they’re active here, but my philosophy regarding customer service has never been to post on a 3rd party forum and hope they see it.

How have you tried reaching out?
No I have not, but it seems like the issues I am having are not unique.
 

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No I have not, but it seems like the issues I am having are not unique.
Quick Edit to my post above about delay. Directly under the Fir filter, there's a "0". this is where you can adjust the delay response time.
 

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When I originally used it after purchase, settings were closer to +2 to +3 across the board with the sub at zero. ARC was really sensitive with the subwoofer, so I had to turn it way down. After a FW update, they went to +10 to +11 for the fronts and stayed at +6 for the surrounds.

When I upgraded last year to Genesis they went to +4 to +5. I wasn't using miniDSP or a second sub yet.

When I got the second sub and miniDSP, I would lower it down to -5dB on the miniDSP. The trims were raised back to +9, to +10 for the fronts.

With the Beta, I'm getting the really low sub trim, and my fronts are at the +5 to +6 range. However, the sub sweep was really loud during calibration. If I lowered it - 3 to 4dB, I'm sure I'd be closer to 0 for the fronts.

Are you running more than 1 sub? Have you tried measuring with your sub(s) gain down? Are you running XLR or a single RCA to the LFE? If XLR(s), do they send the same signal level as one RCA to LFE? I just wonder if you were to keep the Sub volume down if the trim levels would return closer to 0.
I am only running one sub. I am using the XLRs. I don't understand why ARC is limiting my fronts to 80hz. They literally go down to 16hz with power (and that's how ARC measures them). When my fronts were against the front wall, it set my crossover to between 180hz and 220hz!

My impression is that it is a very closed system that does not allow much flexibility, which again, coming from Dirac, is disappointing. Perhaps it is due to the firepower in the processor, i.e. it doesn't have enough processing power for the full correction? Just spit balling here.
 

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I am only running one sub. I am using the XLRs. I don't understand why ARC is limiting my fronts to 80hz. They literally go down to 16hz with power (and that's how ARC measures them). When my fronts were against the front wall, it set my crossover to between 180hz and 220hz!

My impression is that it is a very closed system that does not allow much flexibility, which again, coming from Dirac, is disappointing. Perhaps it is due to the firepower in the processor, i.e. it doesn't have enough processing power for the full correction? Just spit balling here.
Question, when you ran these different configurations with just Genesis did you ever listen to them or just rerun because the graphs looked bad?
 

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Question, when you ran these different configurations with just Genesis did you ever listen to them or just rerun because the graphs looked bad?
I reran because I don't want my pre-pro to determine what I should crossover my speakers at. Particularly since they are full range, powered Dynaudios. I bought a full range speaker and want to make use of them.
 

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I reran because I don't want my pre-pro to determine what I should crossover my speakers at. Particularly since they are full range, powered Dynaudios. I bought a full range speaker and want to make use of them.
You have the option of basic or professional mode. In the professional mode you can make all the adjustments necessary after measurements. I understand your frustration though if ARC won't acknowledge the capabilities and have the default set to full range.
 
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