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Dedicated ARC Genesis thread

1M views 10K replies 663 participants last post by  walnut 
#1 ·
Would it be appropriate to start a thread dedicated to ARC Genesis? There is much discussion in the sub section about Audyssey and there is a dedicated thread to it under receivers, amps, etc. Before ARC genesis, I found these discussions very helpful in adjusting ARC 2, however they don't really seem to apply much to ARC genesis.
Although I am happy with the initial results from ARC Genesis, I am also interested in trying adjustments and learning what other users have tried and what their results are. For example, I don't really understand what the bass boost does and what the difference between adjusting it versus the volume in the subs would be.
So, if there is interest in such a thread, is this the correct place for it?
 
#4,821 ·
Hello! I have an AVM70 and run my 4 subs off one sub output to a miniDSP. I also have a BOSS shaker platform. When performing ARC calibration should I go through the process telling it I have one sub, then afterwards I can add a sub in the menu (change one sub to two) and hook up the BOSS through sub output 2, will this disrupt any of my ARC data going to sub one? Will the signal going out of sub 2 just be a raw non-ARC signal? This is what I am trying to accomplish but want to make sure, thank you!
 
#4,822 ·
Hi friends, hope y'all are doing well.

Wondering if I can get some guidance.

I have two defiance x12 subwoofers. I'd like to know if theres a way to run arc in dual sub mode. Right now i run arc on each sub, and upload their individual calibration. Shouldn't arc be running both subs together and generating two files with combined results/adjustments?
 
#4,824 ·
Really depends on your hardware. For example, my 720 has two sub outputs but they are in mono (ie, same signal goes to each) and treated the same by ARC (ie not ideal, so I use a miniDSP to time align and level match the subs prior to running ARC and have a single output go into the miniDSP which then feeds the two subs).
 
#4,825 ·
Can anyone please confirm that ARC Genesis allows you to adjust the "corrected" response, the same way that DIRAC allows, so that it isn't boosting by 12dB. I'm assuming that it does, but just want to make sure. A follow up question to that, is there an easy way to set ARC to only cut peaks and not apply any boost at all?
 
#4,826 ·
I don't think ARC is what you want. Here's why:

1. Yes, to some extent, but ONLY with some specific toggles that might or might not be what you are looking for. For example you can change the slop of the deep bass, where you define deep bass as starting, and how many DB it should slope up to.) You cannot redraw the correction graph free form. (So if you require the ability to force such an approach, ARC will not have the features you need.)
2. Not explicitly, no, but it tends to be smart about this. (But if you require the ability to force such an approach, ARC will not have the features you need.)
 
#4,834 ·
^ Typically if you are running ARC in an AVR or prepro you do NOT also need to run ARC in your PBK equipped subs. ARC in the AVR or prepro will do all the work.

If for whatever reason you decide that your ARC solution is not good enough, due to the mass of correction needed for your subs, you can then switch to first adjusting the subs.

That is, you run PBK/ARC in the subs, and THEN you run ARC in the AVR or prepro on top of that. ARC hears the adjusted output of the subs and calculates its solution accordingly.
--Bob
 
#4,840 ·
HI, I recently purchased MRX1140. I have been playing with the ARC settings for quite a while, but I have no luck with bringing down the mid-level frequencies in the graph. I prefer lower mids. Is there a way to do so? All I see lot of options for lower frequencies, and only curve setting for higher frequencies to be flat or dipping based on the setting. Is there a way to literally create a V shape curve?
 
#4,843 ·
You can try this (examples in parenthesis):
1. Select your Tilt Start Frequency (example = 1000Hz)
2. Select the Tilt Level (-5dB)
3. Select the Maximum Correction Frequency for each set of speakers (4000Hz)
4. Click Review Summary at the top of the page. Use the Curve Viewer for more detail. Start over at step 1 to make any adjustments.
5. When satisfied, Upload Load to Your Device.
6. Repeat as necessary.
 
#4,842 ·
Nope - you're right...It's TOTALLY useless.....Please go find ANYTHING else to use instead - as fast as you can.
 
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#4,845 ·
New to ARC and have a question. I ran ARC twice so far. Each time I ran it I tried placing the mics in a slightly different pattern during the 5 positions. The second time I did it I got the green (corrected line) to land more on the black (target line). So my thought is that I should try a few more different mic positions for the 5. I got some suggestions on some positioning's that worked well for others. My thinking is if I find that good combo of mic positions for my particular room I may give arc a better chance to get the information it needs to do its thing and get better correction (corrected curve lining up more with the target curve.). Wondering is this is logical thinking or if I am just spinning my wheels. Just trying to understand things a bit more. Really liking it so far and my results where pretty good from what I could hear the first 2 go rounds. Its very interesting stuff seeing the results after it runs.
 
#4,846 ·
Hey Brother, I think you may thinking about this the wrong way:

The purpose of ARC is to correct frequency anomalies that happen IN YOUR SPACE based upon your speaker locations, your speaker frequency responses (and how they interact in the room) and your seating position(s). The microphone locations should represent how you plan to listen, and what your goal is for that correction. For example, I want the "main listening position" in my room to be the best it can be. I don't really care about the other 6 seats in the room. Therefore, my Mic positions are at the MLP and 4 others in an X pattern 45° off axis and two feet from that point. Creating a 4 foot box. I vary the height by 6" below MLP to the front and 6" above the MLP to the rear.

If you DO care about other areas in the room, by all means run either more MIC locations OR vary the 5 you ARE using. Like I said, the MLP sweeps will provide the level and crossovers for the system. The others will provide context to the room and correct nodal and frequency issues.

Your result will vary, even if you move the MIC position, or speakers / subs minimally.

Good luck.
 
#5,714 ·
When target curve is over the actual measured curve the eq will try to boots freq where there is a dip. If that freq is boosted too high, your amp input stage will be satured for that freq and may clip. Same for the speaker, if it have difficulty to play 50hz and you rise it 6db up, it may distord.
So putting system wide in - will lower the target curve the the eq will try to lower the peak instead, thats the best way to eq in general.
 
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#4,850 ·
L/R Anthony Gallo Nucleus reference 3.1
CENTER Anthony Gallo reference AV center + Velodyne CHT10R (Xover 120Hz, high level from amp to sub then high level from sub to center speaker)
REAR 4X Davis Mia 20
SUBWOOFERS 2X Polk HTS12
MRX540 as Preamp -> Power amp NAD T973
Screen Research Acoustically Transparent ClearPix screen (only center speaker is behind)

Wide target is set to -3

any advice welcomes !
 

Attachments

#4,852 ·
Looks good. How does it sound?
 
#4,853 ·
Looks good. How does it sound?
 
#4,864 ·
I can confirm that the correction curve shown in ARC Genesis is strictly applied. Please see my former posts.
If your question is: "Does REW see a flat frequency response after correction?" Then the answer is no, because the ARC correction curve is an average of 5 (or more) postions and that I did the RW+UMIK measurements at only the MLP, and also because there was too much to be corrected and it would need a huge number of very narrow filters too.
At my MLP, to be accurate in fact, the best position in my case is 20cm forward the MLP. I don't know why.
When I have time I will redo the measurements by moving the 5 positions of the microphone 20cm backward my MLP, hoping that it will be perfect at the MLP.
 
#4,861 ·
Maybe a newbie error, but I can get ARC to work for two of my profiles, and I do not know why?

Before I started, I did clear the previous ARC settings/profiles, and did a system reset of my MRX740.
Then I did a set of measurements in ARC Genesis. Based on those measurements, I created four profiles: "ARCDef", "Vidar 1", "Vidar 2" and "2ch". For the profile "ARCDef" I did nothing, just to have a baseline. For "Vidar 1" and "Vidar 2" I did some adjustments to the bass (to get a better room curve), and the difference between the to profiles are just how high maximum correction frequency is. For the profile "2ch" I enabled just my fronts and did some small tweaking. When I was done, I uploaded those profiles to my Anthem.

Then I ran some measurement via REW - and I discovered that room correction was not applied to the profile "Vidar 1" and "Vidar 2". I did see the expected increase in bass, but the room correction was not enabled. I tried, via the webinteface, to turn ARC on and off, but it made no difference. The graphs with ARC either on or off are identical - but only for profile "Vidar 1" and "Vidar 2".

REW-measurements: After Basic Adjustments Take 2 - 20220210.mdat
ARC file: Basis adjustments - Take 2 - 2022-01-24.arc3

Can someone please take a look, and tell me what I have done wrong?
 
#4,862 ·
@Sitron_NO For the input you were feeding the REW tones to, I assume you did reconfigure each time to change the profile to the one you were measuring?
 
#4,863 ·
Yes, first I chose the profile I wanted to measure, and enabled ARC. Then I disabled ARC and did a new measurement, without changing profile. Then I changed profile and turned on ARC, did a new measurement, then turned off ARC, without changing profile, and did a new measurement... and so on.
 
#4,865 ·
I'm finding the AVM70 and ARC to be incredibly unreliable to get started with a measurement. Turn on the preamp, get my mic connected and verified in MacOS, then start ARC, set a config, go to measure, and...nothing. No sound. No tones. I sit here restarting over and over to get tones to play.

The preamp is working. My amps are on. Everything seems fine. If I go to actually use the preamp with a source, then no problem, it always works.

Any tips?
 
#4,867 ·
Mac Preferences / Sound / Select Mic /

Turn off Noise Reduction
Set level to be 40%

Run ARC test tone sweeps - Then after the first series of tones, you'll have to go back and do it again (to the same level). Then you won't need to again.

If this doesn't work, you have driver / Mic compatibility issues. When Have this problem, I use my Externally powered USB / HDMI Dock (using ITS drivers) and have no issues.

Good luck.
 
#4,868 ·
Well, I figured out the current left channel issue and that was some operator error (/embarrassed). I had knocked the XLR/RCA switch on my amp to the wrong position.

BUT! Now the tops won't generate test tones. Argh. And I'm pretty sure it's really not my fault this time...

Normally the issue is with the generation of tones, not the mic picking them up. Mic seems to be fine usually in MacOS.

EDIT: I'm curious as well if I should be doing this a different way. I have one pair of subs and other, different single sub. I want 2 measurements/profiles. One with the dual subs and another with the other sub. And I want to be able to change between them easy.

I was planning to set up Measurement A for both subs and Measurement B for one sub. Then do A with both connected, then change the one on subwoofer 1 and take Measurement B.

Then those would go to Profile 1 and Profile 2 respectively.

Should I do it this way or should I make two completely different ARC files with the different sub models and then load them separately as I change the connected subs?
 
#4,870 ·
I could not get the tones to play out of my speakers before when using arc. This is what I did: I had to play a few seconds of a movie or song in order to get the test tone sweeps to come out. Once I did that it worked. May not be your issue but worth a shot. I start arc up. Play a song or movie for a couple seconds. THEN run arc and the tones come out.
 
#4,869 ·
I would measure everything you have in one profile to start. Then create a second (or more) removing speakers from the design. Then you can set up your inputs to grab one profile or the other. For example, I have very few sources, so I set up three profiles. All Speakers, 5 epeakers, and stereo. Then I can listen to "SACD - 5ch" or "SACD - 2ch" based on my media, and by selecting the proper input, my triggers turn of amps, my ARC profile is set, and my preferred surround mode is set, all with changing the input.

Maybe I've done it wrong, but it works for me.
 
#4,871 ·
Hi to all,

I'am new here, and i have planned to buy an Anthemsd STR Integrated Amplifier.

I have seen in ARC tutorials that we can ajust the target curve with a lot of parameters like ‘Deep Bass Boost’, ‘Tilt levels’, etc….. but is it possible to add a parametric EQ, if we would cut or boost a specific frequency (like in the Dirac system) ?

Thanks for your help !
 
#4,872 ·
Hi GoGlass,

Welcome to AVS Forum!
No you cannot do as Dirac, no parametric EQ features.
However, my question when I was looking for such digital correction was: "Do I need to spend hours to tweak correction curves?"
For my personal case, the answer was no.
So I've now owned this STR for more than 2 years, I've spent time to understand and get its best and frankly speaking, I am happy.
The sound at the MLP is amazing, well centered despite of my asymmetric room (windows + heater on the left and couch on the right).
Could I get better, certainly.

I have 2 "profiles": One with my Tannoy's only and one with the Tannoy's + 2 subs. Thanks to ARC phase correction, I have almost to difference between the 2 profiles (with or without subs).

I have 2 turntables (MM & MC) and I am happy with the phono preamp entries, and especially the possibility to create personal correction curves instead of the RIAA one (useful during cart breaking-up for instance).
 
#4,878 ·
So the tip a few posts back to play sound through your speakers before getting into an ARC calibration was spot on. I started playing a music song and setting the AVM70 to all channel stereo for a few seconds. Then stop that and go into ARC and run through a calibration.

With the all channel sound before a cal, I didn't encounter any failure to generate test tones again. I guess I'll just add this to my process. Should be a bug Anthem can fix though.

I'm also have some questions related to subs and calibration I'll post about shortly.
 
#4,879 ·
Glad it worked for you. Your welcome. I would let Anthem know just so they know how many people this is affecting. I let them know and got a response. They have a different work around then the one I listed and used myself. The one I listed works but this is what they said.

“They are aware of the issue and are working on a firmware fix. Workaround for now is to just switch the unit to analog 1, or optical 1, and then run ARC. Essentially just take it off an HDMI or eARC input and then open/run ARC.”

glad they are working on a fix
 
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#4,880 ·
@GoGlass - I hope you enjoy your Anthem STR Integrated! I enjoy my STR Preamp very much.

I think ARC would be improved if the user could put in one or two PEQ points at will. However, I agree with @nathan_h that it's highly unlikely Anthem will add this feature. It seems to be against their "religion" to allow any changes in the midrange. On the bright side, ARC does offer a variety of adjustment possibilities at the upper and lower frequencies, as well as in how the subs are run. And since each adjustment is characterized by a numerical setting, it is trivial to re-create a previous setup or adjust it incrementally. I didn't find that true of Dirac.

Recordings vary widely, and the four profiles that ARC provides are useful to accommodate that, as are the tone and sub-level controls. Sometimes, I use non-Anthem software PEQ to make a dip around 2500 Hz, which can improve some harsh recordings. I have even mulled over adding a Schiit Loki Max to the system to let me make quick and repeatable, broad recording-specific adjustments. So far, I've concluded I don't need it.

Having said all that, I should emphasize that the STR units are very very good, and their DSP is excellent. It is audibly cleaner than DSP units I owned before. As to subs, I've achieved very smooth and flat bass, well integrated, by using ARC. There's a lot to like.
 
#4,881 ·
I'm curious about some bass management with Anthem ARC and how folks manage it.

I have a pretty beefy subwoofer in my space right now. Got it set up and went to rerun my full room ARC cal. When ARC went to measure the sub, it kept stopping and saying to turn the sub down by the -3 dB. It took 7 adjustments, a full -21 dB before ARC went forward. I was adjusting this by reducing gain on the sub itself.

ARC ran and did it's thing. Correction curves and such all look good. After asking me to turn the sub down so much, ARC ended up applying a +1.5 dB gain. Listening to content, the bass just feels neutered vs. the same demo material when the sub was 0 dB gain. I think this is why people prefer Harman curves with +6 or +10 dB boosts in the bass region before falling off flatter.

So, I want a flat correction curve, but I want to restore impact back. I'm not sure they best way to do this. I could:

1. Adjust the target curves in ARC to boost the bass regions, but that basically has the Anthem boosting signal that's already reduced by the subwoofer itself. It seems just stupid to have one cutting and one boosting the same signal.

2. Turn the subwoofer's gain back up some or 6 or 10 dB and leave the ARC curve as it. Conceivably, this would shift the whole corrected bass curve up. But I wonder if this also creates competing or faulty signal handling.

How do you integrate and manage volumes/gains vs. being able to get the software to measure and ending up with signals/volumes where you want them?
 
#4,883 ·
What Bob said is worth doing.

Also, Anthem has a nice bass boost (room gain) and deep bass boost feature. This does a gentle curve and is much more likely to be pleasing that just turning up the subwoofer gain. In fact, these controls within ARC is how people dial in an approximation of the Harman curve via the Anthem system.
 
#4,884 ·
In my experience with ARC (Anthem AVM 60 and 70), I set the sub to the correct level (75 dB at the main listening position with all subs running (71 dB per sub if using 2 subs, 67 dB per sub if using 4 subs), the new AVM 70 with ARC can measure this in Quick Measure or use a decibel meter set to dBC and slow settings) and I let ARC do its thing. After ARC has done its EQ, but before I finalize the ARC settings, I use the Deep Bass Boost setting in ARC to increase that to about +2.5 to +3 dB for a Movies setting and about +4 dB for a Music setting. My Deep Bass Boost Center Frequency is set to 40 Hz. You can tweak those settings to your desire based on what sounds best, but that's how I've returned that strong bass sound to my system while using ARC. So I agree that ARC can leave bass sounding a little weak without any tweaks, but that Deep Bass Boost setting really can make a nice difference.
 
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