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Discussion Starter #181
I'm sorry for bunching up the thread, but mrtickleuk's 1st trick worked! I am connected! Woo Hoo!!! I still have testing to do after work though
Not a problem. That is the purpose of the thread. Don't be afraid to ask when you are not sure!!! Delighted that you have it now working (y)

Credit to @mrtickleuk for his excellent troubleshooting work earlier in the thread
 

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Not a problem. That is the purpose of the thread. Don't be afraid to ask when you are not sure!!! Delighted that you have it now working (y)

Credit to @mrtickleuk for his excellent troubleshooting work earlier in the thread
much credit indeed! I would have been trying to figure this out for a long time without that troubleshooting, also, Woo Hoo!!! I'm in the game now. Patches are coming up on my television, and now it's time to start doing some readings!
 

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Happy to help!
I'm now finding in later sessions that as long as I use the same IP address noted down from the first time, there's no extra fiddling required. But you have to use Device Control the first time, to make it connect and then to get the IP address.
 

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Custom Pattern Library

That new development (thanks to the developer of PGenerator) is opening some further capabilities to enthusiasts.

The 'Custom Pattern Library' provides the capability to the user to add his custom images.

That function has no limit, and it's up to the SD card empty space capability.

For example, a 16GB SD card (which costs about 5$) will have space for about 1000 TGA uncompressed images to upload some thousand PNG custom images.

We recommend TGA files to initialize lower CPU/GPU resources for the PGenerator to draw it.

TGA files are uncompressed while PGN are compressed but lossless.

For example, a lot of times, users are using their own reference movies for color evaluation.

Since commercial hardware solutions will have Copywrite problems to include screenshots from commercial movies to generators, users can load their own still images to their Library.

It will require attention for these screenshots; if the user will playback a blu-ray movie to his HTPC, the software player needs to be configured to Video Levels, not to expand to PC Levels.

The black level or the 2.35:1 bars of the movie should look like Gray.

We do this for capturing video levels, as by default, software players will expand the video to PC levels.

It will provide quick access to inject reference still pictures; various content users may be more familiar to check for skin tones etc.

Users can create their own pattern using Photoshop or with any other software they prefer.

They can use 0-255 values, but the 16 should be reference black and 235 as reference white.

If you have found a reference image to the web (like this nice image from Burosch), reference images from a company, standards, reference images from manufactures of devices, these patterns should be full range most of the time.

You can convert them to video range using PhotoShop, using the Levels window.



You can check with the color picker some white or black pixels to see if they use 0 for black and 255 for white and then use Levels to compress them to 16-235.

Then save as TGA 24-bit or TIFF, BMP, PNG 8bit 1920x1080.

For uploading or deleting custom uploaded images, these actions will be available from inside the Template.



Browse for an image to upload or delete from the drop-down list the image you want.

About the Custom Pattern Library upload capability, users can download from the Murideo site the ''Bill Wetzel'' 1080p patterns and import them to their PGenerator:


They are 190 patterns, 21MB is the total size.

PGenerator with 16SD Card (~4$ is the cost for 16GB SD) has empty space for about 10GB of custom patterns.

Too bad Murideo users can use only 10 of these patterns to their Murideo Six-G. ...wait, I have Murideo Six-G also.

It's available a download link for ISF patterns to the Murideo page.

You can find reference patterns to Wikipedia also:


Then import the SVG file (without anti-aliasing for that one, 1920x1080) to Photoshop and then save as in image file as TGA 24bit without enhancement or PNG....a file image format PGenerator cna support.
 

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Hi, I'm a new user of RPI PGenerator. Reading the 1st few setup posts had helped to ease my way through. Thanks for that!
As my laptop does not have an ethernet port, I was only able to connect using both the Router and Bluetooth method and the Wifi (least recommended). My devices (Sony X700 bluray, xbox, ROKU) are connected to a Denon X3500H AVR, and output to my Panny OLED EZ950 via ARC connection. I'm using HCFR by the way. Which HDMI port should I connect PGenerator to during calibration? Bypass AVR and connect to TV or connect to AVR (any HDMI port)? Thanks.
 

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I'd try it both ways, doing a basic grayscale and gamut run. If they are the same or very similar, then you have the choice. If they are different, try turning off the video processing in the Denon (setting the processor to "bypass" won't do it) and run another check. Then you'll know for yourself.
 

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Discussion Starter #187
Hi, I'm a new user of RPI PGenerator. Reading the 1st few setup posts had helped to ease my way through. Thanks for that!
As my laptop does not have an ethernet port, I was only able to connect using both the Router and Bluetooth method and the Wifi (least recommended). My devices (Sony X700 bluray, xbox, ROKU) are connected to a Denon X3500H AVR, and output to my Panny OLED EZ950 via ARC connection. I'm using HCFR by the way. Which HDMI port should I connect PGenerator to during calibration? Bypass AVR and connect to TV or connect to AVR (any HDMI port)? Thanks.
As you are using HCFR, you will be performing manual calibrations only, so while the WiFi connection is not really recommended, it is not going to be all that relevant in your setup. The reason it isn't recommended is for 3D LUT profiling or AutoCAL type calibrations, as you have no way of knowing whether you lose sync in those scenarios. With manual calibration, it will not be an issue.

I have the Denon AVR-X3500H too, and when sending an RGB Full signal and profiling for Video Extended (16-255) it actually clips some WTW detail. For this reason, I choose to bypass the AVR and connect directly to the HDMI port of the TV. However, in your situation, one again as you are performing manual calibration at 16-235, it shouldn't be an issue if you choose to go through the AVR. Try it both ways, but always remember to check the resulting calibration with your other devices using test patterns and familiar content.
 
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Ha Liberator,
maybe wrong part of the forum, but going to ask any way. Got an Samsung Q9FN and with your help and Ted i managed tho connect everything, but trying different software CMS and HFCR. The problem i have with HFCR is that when playing files the whole background lights up so the TV is see much brighter patch. Is there an way way to make the background really black instead of lighting up?

regards,
Marco
 

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Discussion Starter #189
Ha Liberator,
maybe wrong part of the forum, but going to ask any way. Got an Samsung Q9FN and with your help and Ted i managed tho connect everything, but trying different software CMS and HFCR. The problem i have with HFCR is that when playing files the whole background lights up so the TV is see much brighter patch. Is there an way way to make the background really black instead of lighting up?

regards,
Marco
In HCFR, you can set the pattern size and background by selecting Measures -> Generator -> Configure

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When the Configuration Window opens, you can set the pattern size and background within the highlighted area shown below

3042533


If you set APL (video) level [%] to "0", then the background should be black. If it is above black, then it is possible that your levels are mismatched, you will need to ensure your display is set to receive a limited range video signal.
 

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Discussion Starter #191 (Edited)
Sorry for the delay in my response. It is the weekend after all ;)

Not sure where your issue lies with HCFR. There must be a configuration issue somewhere, but as I do not use the software I am afraid I cannot advise further. I only installed the software purely to test compatibility with the PGenerator and Ted's Disk Template and it works flawlessly for me each time I connect to the PGenerator with the software.

With the settings shown in my previous post (including the option to show Display Triplets), it works fine here, displaying a 10% window upon a full black background. Note the RGB Triplets shown at the top of the screen, intended to show the RPi PGenerator correctly following the settings applied in HCFR when selecting the 100% White patch.

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Changing the option to a 25% window upon an 25% APL background again works exactly as it should


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So, with the window size and back ground both changed to 25%, I now have this

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As you can see, based on the patch size relative to the text above showing the RGB Triplets, the patch window has indeed increased to a 25% window, as well as the background becoming 25% grey APL, and this happens no matter what I set in HCFR. All settings, whether it patch size or background APL are correctly adhered to.

In conclusion, PGenerator and HCFR are fully working as they should be here for me, so my best guess is that there is a configuration issue somewhere in your setup.

EDIT:

When you refer to the other software as CMS, do you mean LightSpace CMS?

LightSpace, by default, will always set Patch Scale at 0-255 each time you launch the software. See below

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If you have used this setup for your comparison, then it will of course produce a black background no matter what your TV Black Level is set to. I suspect that if you changed this setting in LightSpace to 16-235, you would have the raised background too.

If your TV Black Level is set to Auto, then it is highly likely that upon receiving the Full Range RGB Signal from the PGenerator, it will switch to expect a Full Data Range signal of 0-255. The TV must be set to expect a Limited Range signal. This will be named differently depending on manufacturer. So Black Level Low, Limited, Video, etc, etc....... as described in Post 3 of this thread.
 

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No prob, for the delay was doing a grayscale in Lightspace CMS. But I'm just curious how it would look in hfcr to compare. When I have some extra time i wil try to figure this out.
 

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Discussion Starter #193
No prob, for the delay was doing a grayscale in Lightspace CMS. But I'm just curious how it would look in hfcr to compare. When I have some extra time i wil try to figure this out.
Okay so I was correct in assuming that when you said CMS you were referring to LightSpace. So may I suggest that you begin by checking the settings there first, as by default, the software will always set the Patch Scale at 0-255.

For correct operation of PGenerator, the Patch Scale must be set at 16-235 (16-255 for 3D LUT profiling when possible). If you apply this setting and get the same raised background you see in HCFR, it will confirm that your levels are mismatched and you need to change the Black Level setting within you TV.

Or, another simple test would be to change the setting in HCFR from 16-235 to 0-255. I expect doing this would provide a black background too, as seen in LightSpace. But this will obviously not be the correct setting! It is a simple test to confirm level mismatch in your TV.

Most modern consumer TVs will default the Black Level setting to Auto, but as explained in Post 3, this is not the correct setting for PGenerator. The TV will receive a Full Range RGB signal from PGenerator and see this as Data Range signal, essentially switching automatically to Full Range, Data Range, PC Range, Black Level High (all possible names, dependant on manufacturer).

The TV must be manually switched to expect a Limited Range signal when using the PGenerator. Only then will the black level be correct when setting the Patch Scale at 16-235 (255). As explained in the first few posts of the thread, this is one of the most essential steps in setting up the PGenerator, and it in fact applies to all test pattern solutions whether it is an external patch generator, a DVD/Blu-Ray disk, USB Files, MirrorCast, AirPlay, etc etc, the levels must be configured in both the source device and display and then verified to be be correct before commencing any further.

Please make these changes before testing any further.

If any of this resolves your issue, then you can continue with your calibration, and when complete, you should return the setting in your TV to Auto.
 
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I going to try this later this evening the black level is set to low, but what i can remember that is that in lightspace cms i have the RGB set to 16-255 i try to set it at 235. But was wondering when connecting the hdmi in the tv, tv ask what it is I have set it at homecinema.
 

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Discussion Starter #195 (Edited)
The simple fact is that, as I have shown, the PGenerator is working in both software exactly as intended. I can repeat the outcome on all three different displays in my home (none of which is Samsung as I do not, and never will own a Samsung).

But everything points to a level mismatch somewhere. This is part and parcel of calibration, figuring out where that mismatch is and making the changes accordingly. This is something you need to do before continuing any further with making adjustments to your displays calibration controls.

Here, as a very simple test I have used HCFR with the Generator configured to output 16-235 as shown in the previously provided images. Then, I have simply toggled between Black Level Low and High within the TV's picture settings in the user menu. Note, that images have been taken on an OLED display, so when configured correctly, black will be true black. Any misconfiguration is easy to see.

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(the smudge in the images above is a slight reflection as images are taken during the daytime)

For more specific assistance on calibrating your particular display, it is advised you check the relevant thread for that display (as advised in the initial posts of this thread).
 
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I was able to test the new disk Template from @ConnecTEDDD, and I'm falling in love with it. Every one who is seriously calibrating has to know Ted’s Calibration Disk, which is an absolute must-have. The new template version makes the whole calibration and verification process much more comfortable and saves a lot of time. That's the reason why I'm using it for every of my professional TV reviews for the German market.

There is no better toolbox you can get out there, and the overall price for the RPI unit and the template is ridiculously low and unrivaled out there.
 

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Couldn't agree more. Just the meter positioning cross is worth half the money!
Murideo Six-G users use that Meter Positioning with PGenerator, as Murideo Six-G doesn't have a pattern for that specific task.

 

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PGenerator + HD Fury = Bit-Perfect HDR TPG

For the “Slider” buttons on the sides, the simplest setup would be


HDCP: 1.4

EDID: Automix Mode

Scale: No Scaling/Passthrough


The GUI Settings are just a simple

After connecting the HDMI cables from the PGenerator to the HD Fury, and from the HD Fury to the display, connect the HD Fury to your computer via USB and launch the GUI utility.

The first page is the EDID Manager. Automix is pre set by the physical slider, just ensure there is a check in the option for 2020/xvYcc

View attachment 3036055

Note: Depending on your HD Fury device and its corresponding GUI utility, the 2020 option can be in a different place. First-generation Integral also has the option in the EDID Manager tab, but Linker has it in the HDR/AVI tab.

Select “BT2020 Forced On”, then Enable Custom HDR -> Send HDR, followed by Enable Custom AVI -> Send AVI
Hi, so I got myself into a bunny hole and purchased the following hardware and software for hobbyist sake.
USB to Ethernet, HDFury Linker (on sale), Calman Home for Panasonic, Pi Generator 3B+ with Ted's disk and PGenISO. Did Autocal with SDR, looks fine with the numbers and image.
I then attempted to try with HDR and Linker instructions given above. My Linker GUI does not have this Automix EDID, only the following :
[Sink EDID Mode]: Create EDID based on the capabilities of the connected sink.
[Custom/GUI use EDID]: Pick and use EDID from a selection of available EDID tables (see p.11) or load any EDID bank of your choice. By default the selected EDID table is a 4K60 BT2020/HDR 600MHz with Full Audio capabilities. Leave the slide in this position to allow control via USB or to pick and use any of the 25 different EDID tables available (see p.11 for the full list).
[Fixed EDID with L/R Audio]: This mode is a 1080p60 2channel stereo basic table. It can be used as a security EDID to ensure a picture in every setup/situation.

Comparing your screenshot of Integral and my Linker, I think my selection should be Sink EDID since Custom and Fixed were not selected in your screenshot?
I was not able to find this 2020/xvYcc in my GUI. Is this the same as “BT2020 Forced On” in the HDR/AVI tab?

Scale: No Scaling/Passthrough - Which one is the correct to choose?
My options are :
[Upscaling Mode]: In this mode an incoming FHD 1080p signal will be upscaled to DCI/UHD 4K/2160p up to 600MHz if the connected display is capable of receiving such signal.
[Scaling Justified + GU]: When coupled with EDID in Automix mode, the Linker unit makes sure that the conversion will always output a working signal. It will ensure that if a display does not support 4K then an incoming FHD 1080p signal won’t be upscaled and an incoming UHD 4K signal will be downscaled. Such automation is cancelled when unit is running with EDID in Custom mode.
[Downscaling Mode]: In this mode a 4K/2160p DCI/UHD signal will always be downscaled to FHD 1080p.

I think Scaling Justified looks like the correct since there is no modification of the signal?

Thanks.
 
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Discussion Starter #200
Hi, so I got myself into a bunny hole and purchased the following hardware and software for hobbyist sake.
USB to Ethernet, HDFury Linker (on sale), Calman Home for Panasonic, Pi Generator 3B+ with Ted's disk and PGenISO. Did Autocal with SDR, looks fine with the numbers and image.
I then attempted to try with HDR and Linker instructions given above. My Linker GUI does not have this Automix EDID, only the following :
[Sink EDID Mode]: Create EDID based on the capabilities of the connected sink.
[Custom/GUI use EDID]: Pick and use EDID from a selection of available EDID tables (see p.11) or load any EDID bank of your choice. By default the selected EDID table is a 4K60 BT2020/HDR 600MHz with Full Audio capabilities. Leave the slide in this position to allow control via USB or to pick and use any of the 25 different EDID tables available (see p.11 for the full list).
[Fixed EDID with L/R Audio]: This mode is a 1080p60 2channel stereo basic table. It can be used as a security EDID to ensure a picture in every setup/situation.

Comparing your screenshot of Integral and my Linker, I think my selection should be Sink EDID since Custom and Fixed were not selected in your screenshot?
I was not able to find this 2020/xvYcc in my GUI. Is this the same as “BT2020 Forced On” in the HDR/AVI tab?

Scale: No Scaling/Passthrough - Which one is the correct to choose?
My options are :
[Upscaling Mode]: In this mode an incoming FHD 1080p signal will be upscaled to DCI/UHD 4K/2160p up to 600MHz if the connected display is capable of receiving such signal.
[Scaling Justified + GU]: When coupled with EDID in Automix mode, the Linker unit makes sure that the conversion will always output a working signal. It will ensure that if a display does not support 4K then an incoming FHD 1080p signal won’t be upscaled and an incoming UHD 4K signal will be downscaled. Such automation is cancelled when unit is running with EDID in Custom mode.
[Downscaling Mode]: In this mode a 4K/2160p DCI/UHD signal will always be downscaled to FHD 1080p.

I think Scaling Justified looks like the correct since there is no modification of the signal?

Thanks.
Sorry, I’m not at home right now so I’m having to reply on my phone browser, so it’s a little cumbersome.

For EDID, you can use the Sink EDID mode, it will just read the EDID of your display.

For BT2020, if you look at the quoted post again you will see a screenshot shot of the Linker GUI with a statement below saying to use “BT2020 Forced On”

For scaling, it doesn’t really matter too much. You can have no upscaling and let your display upscale to 2160p, or allow the HD Fury to upscale to 2160P, it shouldn’t make a difference.

For greyscale and primaries, there is no difference between SDR or HDR patterns with the exception of the metadata.

I personally have the Integral 2 (which is identical to the Vertex with the exception of the built in display) and have never used a Linker. But I have provided a screenshot of the Linker GUI in that same post to show where to enter the IF strings.

I think @ConnecTEDDD has a Linker and should be able to confirm for sure if what I have said is correct or not.

Let us know how you get on and if you are still unsure or are having issues I will look properly when I return home this evening.
 
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