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Hi @liberator72 , thanks for the information. I think I managed to get it to work now. My TV information is now showing 1080P/24/(HDR) when I did Autocal (HDR) and showing 1080/24 when I did Autocal (SDR). The picture mode in my TV is also showing this respectively. Will be spending the next few days to complete these calibrations. Thanks again guys.
 

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@liberator72 @ConnecTEDDD Hi guys, while using PGen+HDFury for HDR, can any of the pre-calibration patterns be used for preparation, similar to SDR? My TV HDR picture mode has already been reset - 100 Luminance, 100 Contrast, 0 Brightness, the Black level is normal/limited. Sharpness is 30 default.
For example, using the Advanced Sharpness pattern, at 50 sharpness, the 4th column is only showing partial patterns (3/10) for the top half n showing full pattern for the lower half. If I increased to max 100 sharpness, the top half patterns increased to (7/10), if I decreased to 0 sharpness, only 1.5/10 appeared. The red, blue columns appear to be fine, with all the patterns appearing.
Another example with Bars and Black Pattern, I did not see the step for the top level colours, my white box does not have the border, my black is clipped, even if I increase brightness, it became washout with no black box inside.
Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter #203
Yes and no. Some of the Rec709 SDR patterns can be used to some extent with the display put into BT.2020 HDR mode, but as they are 8 bit Rec709 SDR patterns, there are limitations on what you can evaluate with them.

For example, some of the Brightness and Greyscale patterns are fine to use, as greyscale values are the same between the two. The difference being that HDR is 10 bit vs 8 bit, so it has more steps and can show smoother gradations. But Brightness/Greyscale can be used to evaluate the displays brightness levels in HDR (although Brightness shouldn't really be adjusted in HDR mode due to internal PQ conversion/tone mapping) and how your display handles tone mapping in HDR mode as greyscale will either clip at a certain point, or not, depending on tone mapping (display internal static vs dynamic tone mapping).

Note, you should never see anything below 16 or above 235 in any of the Brightness/Greyscale patterns.

Colour ramps/tunnels and other specific evaluation patterns will not work correctly due to RGB 8 bit Rec709 and the YCC 10 bit BT.2020 colour space differences.
 
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Hi, I'm a new user of RPI PGenerator. Reading the 1st few setup posts had helped to ease my way through. Thanks for that!
As my laptop does not have an ethernet port, I was only able to connect using both the Router and Bluetooth method and the Wifi (least recommended). My devices (Sony X700 bluray, xbox, ROKU) are connected to a Denon X3500H AVR, and output to my Panny OLED EZ950 via ARC connection. I'm using HCFR by the way. Which HDMI port should I connect PGenerator to during calibration? Bypass AVR and connect to TV or connect to AVR (any HDMI port)? Thanks.
Hi,

AVR's will understand that you are sending PC Level, but you send PC Level as a container to generate video legal (16-235) or video legal extended (16-255), so it's a better idea not to pass the signal from AVR but connect directly with your TV the PGenerator.

Be sure that TV will expect to send a Video range signal when PGenerator is connected with your TV.
 

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Ha Liberator,
maybe wrong part of the forum, but going to ask any way. Got an Samsung Q9FN and with your help and Ted i managed tho connect everything, but trying different software CMS and HFCR. The problem i have with HFCR is that when playing files the whole background lights up so the TV is see much brighter patch. Is there an way way to make the background really black instead of lighting up?

regards,
Marco
Hi Marko,

After connecting PGenerator, be sure that the TV is configured to receive a video range signal.

You can use the PGenerator Advanced Brightness pattern of my Disk to see if you have the correct levels.

 

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I going to try this later this evening the black level is set to low, but what i can remember that is that in lightspace cms i have the RGB set to 16-255 i try to set it at 235. But was wondering when connecting the hdmi in the tv, tv ask what it is I have set it at homecinema.
When you want to calibrate a Samsung TV manually using ColourSpace/LightSpace, set patchscale to 16-235 since the TV's calibration controls can control 0-100% range.

We use 16-255 with LG OLEDs, and internal LUT (0-109%) since the LUT internally to the TV requires these levels.
 

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Hi, so I got myself into a bunny hole and purchased the following hardware and software for hobbyist sake.
USB to Ethernet, HDFury Linker (on sale), Calman Home for Panasonic, Pi Generator 3B+ with Ted's disk and PGenISO. Did Autocal with SDR, looks fine with the numbers and image.
I then attempted to try with HDR and Linker instructions given above. My Linker GUI does not have this Automix EDID, only the following :
[Sink EDID Mode]: Create EDID based on the capabilities of the connected sink.
[Custom/GUI use EDID]: Pick and use EDID from a selection of available EDID tables (see p.11) or load any EDID bank of your choice. By default the selected EDID table is a 4K60 BT2020/HDR 600MHz with Full Audio capabilities. Leave the slide in this position to allow control via USB or to pick and use any of the 25 different EDID tables available (see p.11 for the full list).
[Fixed EDID with L/R Audio]: This mode is a 1080p60 2channel stereo basic table. It can be used as a security EDID to ensure a picture in every setup/situation.

Comparing your screenshot of Integral and my Linker, I think my selection should be Sink EDID since Custom and Fixed were not selected in your screenshot?
I was not able to find this 2020/xvYcc in my GUI. Is this the same as “BT2020 Forced On” in the HDR/AVI tab?

Scale: No Scaling/Passthrough - Which one is the correct to choose?
My options are :
[Upscaling Mode]: In this mode an incoming FHD 1080p signal will be upscaled to DCI/UHD 4K/2160p up to 600MHz if the connected display is capable of receiving such signal.
[Scaling Justified + GU]: When coupled with EDID in Automix mode, the Linker unit makes sure that the conversion will always output a working signal. It will ensure that if a display does not support 4K then an incoming FHD 1080p signal won’t be upscaled and an incoming UHD 4K signal will be downscaled. Such automation is cancelled when unit is running with EDID in Custom mode.
[Downscaling Mode]: In this mode a 4K/2160p DCI/UHD signal will always be downscaled to FHD 1080p.

I think Scaling Justified looks like the correct since there is no modification of the signal?

Thanks.
Hi,

Check the Fury as the device; it has some switches.

Start with no upscale and Sink from connected display.

Check with grayscale that you have the correct black level measurement and PQ panel response.

Then take necessary measurements to see if the REC.2020 gamut has been triggered, taking a saturation sweep.

If you see REC.709, then something is not OK with the AVI code.

If everything is working, try upscale to 2160p24 and use the AVI code for that resolution, and repeat the same test.

I have uploaded HDR10 patchsets for ColourSpace here:

 

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@liberator72 @ConnecTEDDD Hi guys, while using PGen+HDFury for HDR, can any of the pre-calibration patterns be used for preparation, similar to SDR? My TV HDR picture mode has already been reset - 100 Luminance, 100 Contrast, 0 Brightness, the Black level is normal/limited. Sharpness is 30 default.
For example, using the Advanced Sharpness pattern, at 50 sharpness, the 4th column is only showing partial patterns (3/10) for the top half n showing full pattern for the lower half. If I increased to max 100 sharpness, the top half patterns increased to (7/10), if I decreased to 0 sharpness, only 1.5/10 appeared. The red, blue columns appear to be fine, with all the patterns appearing.
Another example with Bars and Black Pattern, I did not see the step for the top level colours, my white box does not have the border, my black is clipped, even if I increase brightness, it became washout with no black box inside.
Thanks.
When the TV is sharpening the content, you will borders to any flashing bar.

Use Sharpness 0-10. Ideally, 0, but I haven't checked your TV model to be sure.
 

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Hi,

AVR's will understand that you are sending PC Level, but you send PC Level as a container to generate video legal (16-235) or video legal extended (16-255), so it's a better idea not to pass the signal from AVR but connect directly with your TV the PGenerator.

Be sure that TV will expect to send a Video range signal when PGenerator is connected with your TV.
@ConnecTEDDD I guess my understanding is wrong as LUT is a table that the TV image processor use to do the correction together with the source. My thoughts on this was that since the signal from my device to AVR and then to TV would have a slight error/loss/rounding excess of data, thus it can be compensated by the calibration done, like a device chain correction.

With your confirmation above to connect directly to TV with PGenerator, this is easy for me now to make a Day n Nite calibration on TV HDMI 1 and copy it to the rest of the HDMI ports. Yes, my TV is set to receive Video signal (normal RGB range instead of Full).

Another question I have here but I guess is not relevant to this thread.
After Calman Autocal or Manual calibration has been done, what is the difference between adjusting via DDC menu and on-the-fly TV menu itself?

PS: Where else in this forum can I find Panasonic users with Calman? The thread that I went to, is not much information and users compared to LG, Sony and even Samsung.
 

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Thanks to @ConnecTEDDD I went this route and now have it up and running on a test basis. Thanks for all the help in this thread and to Ted directly. It is probably here somewhere but how do you do an orderly shutdown-- a power down of Device Control and then the Pi? RPi OS gives you "Logout/Shut Down" to keep anything from getting corrupted but I don't see that option with Device Control. Did I miss the obvious?
 

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Discussion Starter #211
Thanks to @ConnecTEDDD I went this route and now have it up and running on a test basis. Thanks for all the help in this thread and to Ted directly. It is probably here somewhere but how do you do an orderly shutdown-- a power down of Device Control and then the Pi? RPi OS gives you "Logout/Shut Down" to keep anything from getting corrupted but I don't see that option with Device Control. Did I miss the obvious?
You can Power Off from the Settings Template from within Device Control if you wish, and then remove power after

3049459


But there is absolutely no need to do this. If you have a switched power outlet, or switched power cord to the RPi unit, just turn it off. Or pull the plug if you don't have a switched outlet/cord. It won't damage or corrupt the PGenerator software in any way. I've been doing it this way for well over a year with no issues.
 
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You can Power Off from the Settings Template from within Device Control if you wish, and then remove power after

But there is absolutely no need to do this. If you have a switched power outlet, or switched power cord to the RPi unit, just turn it off. Or pull the plug if you don't have a switched outlet/cord. It won't damage or corrupt the PGenerator software in any way. I've been doing it this way for well over a year with no issues.
Thank-you for the graphic and since I do have an inline switch I will use that as well.
 

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I've been ending sessions by pulling the power for more than 2 years here with no problems either! Didn't even know about that Shutdown option, thanks for the info :)
 

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Discussion Starter #214
My guess (I absolutely don’t know this for sure at all) is that the shut down option is there due to many places not having switched power outlets, whereas here in the U.K. nearly all outlets are individually switched.

Either way, even if you shut down from that option in the Device Control Template, you still have to remove/restore power for it to reboot again.

Personally, I just pull the power myself (when I actually remember to do it:- I accidentally left it running for over two weeks once whilst on holiday 🤦‍♂️ )
 
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@ConnecTEDDD I guess my understanding is wrong as LUT is a table that the TV image processor use to do the correction together with the source. My thoughts on this was that since the signal from my device to AVR and then to TV would have a slight error/loss/rounding excess of data, thus it can be compensated by the calibration done, like a device chain correction.
Consumer AVR devices are designed for home video use.

Home video content is always delivered compressed using the YCbCr video TV legal levels.

When you send to an AVR Full Range PC/Data Level signaling (like PGenerator is sending), it can confuse or make the AVR add some conversions to video or colorspace conversions.

We don't want such conversions to be introduced to the signal of the PGenerator, as they will add digital errors.

When a media player, network, disk player sends YCbCr output through your AVR, you will not have any conversion.

When users have AVR, it's recommended to connect the PGenerator directly to the TV.

When users have eeColor/Prisma LUT Boxes, connect PGenerator with the LUT Box in the chain, but the LUT box needs to have an active RESET LUT (UNITY 3D LUT) loaded during all the measurements.

When you want to calculate a proper LUT for a TV that has internal LUT (LG OLEDs), then it will require to use a bit-perfect RGB generator since the internal LUT of LG is 16-255, you will have to generate bit-perfect RGB 16-255 patches.

The LUT is a collection of many data which store the differences of INPUT values to OUTPUT values.

It will require to use of a bit-perfect patch generator for that data collection.

But if you are using a not-bit-perfect iTPG, like the internal iTPG of LG for 3D LUT, you will not measure any difference if you use the same non-bit-perfect TPG for verification.

You will see a difference if you measure the results with a bit-perfect generator only.

When using a non-bit-perfect TPG for calibration, you will not see any issue with measurements if you are using the same generator for post-verification.

For Sony/Panasonic/Samsung or even LG, when you want to perform a calibration with TV controls from regular TV menu adjustments, use 16-235 patches. (PGenerator need to have always the output as RGB-Data/Full)

With your confirmation above to connect directly to TV with PGenerator, this is easy for me now to make a Day n Nite calibration on TV HDMI 1 and copy it to the rest of the HDMI ports. Yes, my TV is set to receive Video signal (normal RGB range instead of Full).
When you copy to all HDMI, it will not copy all settings completely; some additional settings will require changing them (selected color temp).

Another question I have here but I guess is not relevant to this thread.
After Calman Autocal or Manual calibration has been done, what is the difference between adjusting via DDC menu and on-the-fly TV menu itself?
No difference.

If you are talking for Panasonic,Sony, Samsung, then the same controls you see available in the regular TV menu, the same controls you can DDC with CalMAN DDC.

It's the same controls CalMAN is adjusting during the guesswork approach of AutoCAL.

If you are talking about LG OLEDs, The DDC of xx-Point of Grayscale through CalMAN DDC adjusts specific points of the 1024p 1D LUT file.

These specific points are not available from regular TV controls.

LG doesn't support DDC of regular TV controls from any software, which is a shame for a modern TV.

Even Panasonic and Pioneer Plasmas had DDC before ten years or more.
 

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Thanks to @ConnecTEDDD I went this route and now have it up and running on a test basis. Thanks for all the help in this thread and to Ted directly. It is probably here somewhere but how do you do an orderly shutdown-- a power down of Device Control and then the Pi? RPi OS gives you "Logout/Shut Down" to keep anything from getting corrupted but I don't see that option with Device Control. Did I miss the obvious?
Hi, you can buy a PSU for Pi3 with a switch.

3049911


I use remotely controlled outlets, and I can ON/OFF via a remote the device I want:

 

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Discussion Starter #219
Hi everyone,

I was wondering what is the best and most affordable software option, to pair with the Raspberry PI 3 B+ for calibrating
a Sony X900E and Sony X900H.

Is Calman for Sony Home the best choice or is their a better software option for less money?

Thanks,
Software is down to personal preference and will be a choice you need to make yourself.

Sony TVs can be calibrated manually with free software such as LightSpace ZRO (or ColourSpace ZRO when it is released in the future) or HCFR. All of which are compatible with PGenerator.

CalMAN Home for Sony will work for you if you have no calibration knowledge and no desire to learn, as it just performs the same functions as a manual calibration in an automated fashion.
 
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I agree with Leon. However, some learning is still necessary even with CalMAN to achieve satisfactory results. Too many new folks just wade in thinking it's going to be a "one click solution", and that's simply not the case.
 
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