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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I live in an upstairs apartment.......So I don't want too much sound, but enough to enjoy......Plus there isn't much room...


If I just purchased a pair with the powered subs built in.......Would that be enough to provide decent surround sound? I do not want 5 or 6 speakers and speaker wire all over......Just for movies and music.....Put it this way my TV sounds nice enough, but I want to play music also.....Not thru the TV......


I'm also thinking about HarmonKardan or Onkyo receiver, but don't know what kind of receiver.....2 channel or Surround? How many watts should it have to be able to pump the Def Techs?
 

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Just to clarify. Are you talking stereo sound, Dolby surround, or what? Are you talking about purchasing a pair of front or surround powered speakers? For movies and music I would at least buy the front speakers and a center. However, if you want to experience the ultimate surround sound experience from your DVD movies a pair of side surrounds are a must. Speaker wire can be hidden along the baseboards of the walls in the apartment. As for your receiver question, I would certainly go with one that does surround. A decent surround receiver is not that expensive and is way better than a stereo one. As for amplification, I'd say most modern receivers will be capable of driving the def techs. The Def Techs powered line have built in amps for the subs. I'd be careful in an apartment not to put too much stuff on an outlet that you plug these into. Check this link out:
http://www.definitivetech.com/loudsp...owertower.html

I cut and pasted it right of of Definitive's web site. If you scroll down it you'll find rec amp and nominal impedance information for all of there speakers. All you need is a receiver that can meet these requirements and your all set. If you go with one of there powered speakers for the fronts, I'd recommend disconnecting the bridge between the mid and low and running a sub cable to each from the receiver's lfe. However, if you don't want to do this they will still sound good with just speaker wire to the receiver. I think it might be hard not to upset the neighbors a little since even the 2004tls can rock :cool: I'd go with these for an apartment:


BP2006TL Specifications: Dimensions: 6 1/4"W 11 1/2"D x 38"H Response: 19 Hz-30 kHz. Efficiency: 92 dB. Drivers: Two 4 1/2" high definition cast- magnesium basket polymer upper bass/mid range drivers. Two 1" pure aluminum dome tweeters. One 8" subwoofer w/ 250 watt RMS amp. Rec. Amp.: 20-250 watts. Nominal Imp.: 4-8 ohms. Auto On/Off: Signal sensing. Finish: piano gloss black or golden cherry. Weight: 46 lbs. Retail: $599.00 ea.


Hope this helps.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Actually you hepled a little....Surround receiver.....


I know for complete sound you need 5 - 7.1 or whatever.....


My question is can I get away with only 2 speakers because of the built in subs?


Trust me in my APT. there is no running the wire along baseboards........There is an open space and I would have to either run it across the ceiling or under the carpet.....


So it is not possible to get away with only 2 speakers?.......Similar to that bose home theater, but I consider Def Techs to be higher quality and probably provide better sound..........


If you could only have 2 speakers and wanted to maximize Movies and Music. Which would you buy?


Def Techs have tweets, mids and sub all in 1.......Not plausable?
 

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As an all-DefTech-system owner, the answer is that the built-in subs don't subtract from the teriffic sound. I have plenty of space, and I don't consider them to be a compromise at all.


I understand you're only interested in two speakers right now, but I'd still recommend a surround receiver; most can be set to 'roll' the missing channels' sound into the speakers you have.


Answer: very plausible. (Anything is better than Bose - IMHO)
 

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I'd buy a 5.1 or 7.1 receiver and add the speakers as I can afford to. There are some nice Dolby Digital receivers capable of 5.1 and 7.1 that won't break the bank. For example Denon makes several affordable 5.1 receivers like the AVR-1603 , which is capable of Dolby 5.1 and DTS at 80watts per channel. Denon also makes some affordable 7.1 receivers like the AVR-2803, which witch is capable of Dolby Digital Surround EX, Dolby Pro Logic II & DTS ES Discrete and delivers 90watts /channel. I think retail is 800 but deals can be had at av dealers and online. You might check AV Science on this forum. They have really nice prices.


Sure you can get away with two speakers. This will work great for listening to stereo music and way better for movies than your tv speakers. I would really add a center channel speaker, since in movies the dialogue comes from this speaker. It handles dialogue and centrally positioned music and sound effects.This channel in a surround sound setup is directly in front of the viewer. The center channel speaker "anchors" sound that should be coming from the front of the screen. Most dialogs in a DVD are played through the center channel. Dolby Pro Logic Surround provides an electronically derived center channel that is reproduced by a dedicated speaker placed close to the TV screen. As a result, on-screen dialogue always comes right from the picture, freeing you to sit most anywhere in the room.


Without a center speaker, you must depend on a "phantom" center channel which is effective only over a small viewing area. You also have to keep the left and right speakers relatively close together, whereas with Pro Logic's center channel you can keep the left and right speakers far enough apart to get a good stereo spread on music and sound effects.


All A/V receivers with Pro Logic provide a center channel mode switch. Normal redistributes the low bass for use with a smaller center speaker as described above. Phantom redistributes all center channel information to the sides so you can start out without a center speaker if need be (but be sure to add one as soon as possible).


Some A/V receivers also have a Wide mode (i.e. "wide range") for use with a center speaker providing full bass response. An Off mode may be supplied as well, which removes center channel information only for test purposes (you must select Phantom for listening without a center channel speaker).


Some A/V receivers with Pro Logic also provide a choice of amplifier configurations. In one configuration, more power goes to the left and right front speakers than to the center, while in the other, equal power goes to all three front speakers. If you have a smaller center speaker (Normal center channel mode), set the unit so that it delivers more power to the left and right speakers. This will help them deliver low bass as cleanly as possible. If you have a wide-range center speaker (Wide center channel mode), set the receiver so that it delivers the same power to all three front speakers



Let me explain the various surround formats, which may aid you in your setup.


5.1 Channel Surround Sound

Is a discrete six-channel surround sound, where the "5" corresponds to five channels (left, right, center, left surround, right surround) and the "1" refers to the Low-Frequency Effects channel. The first "5" is the full range channels and the "1" means there is a dedicated subwoofer channel.


6.1 Channel Surround Sound

Also known as Dolby Digital and DTS Surround EX. This is an extension of 5.1 format with one more channel being added either Rear Center or Back Surround.


7.1 Channel Surround Sound

Also known as Dolby Digital & DTS THX Surround EX. This is an even further extension of 5.1 surround sound format. It has the 6.1 sound with the added channel being split into two channels - Back/Rear Left and Right to improve precision of surround sound.


Channel

An individual (discrete) audio track. In the case of 5.1 Dolby Digital, there are six discrete channels.


Dolby Digital

This technology developed by Dolby Laboratories creates a digital bitstream of one to six discrete source channels. When Dolby Digital is working in six-channel mode (5.1), five channels are full-frequency while one channel is dedicated to low-frequency effects. Like Dolby Surround Pro Logic, it includes Left, Center and Right channels across the front of the room. Dolby Digital provides separate left surround and right surround channels, for more precise localization of sounds and a more convincing, realistic ambience. Dolby Digital is the standard audio format for DVD and HDTV and is optionally supported on Laserdisc.


Dolby Pro Logic

An active matrixed surround sound technology that derives four channels (left, right, center, surround) from a two-channel source. The left, right, and center channels are full-frequency, while the surround channel is limited frequency and mono. Dolby ProLogic is the home theater equivalent of Dolby Stereo for films.


Dolby Pro Logic II

The next generation of Dolby Surround Pro Logic decoding technology. Dolby Pro Logic II can create a "simulated" 5.1 channel surround environment from a 4-Channel Dolby Surround signal.


DTS Digital Surround

A high data rate, 5.1 channel surround sound technology developed by Digital Theater Systems. DTS Digital Surround is an encode/decode system that delivers six channels of master-quality, 20-bit audio. In the encoding process, the DTS algorithm encrypts six channels of 20-bit digital audio information in the space previously allotted for only two channels of 16-bit linear PCM. Each of these six channels is audibly superior to the 16-bit linear PCM audio found on conventional compact discs.

In order to listen to the DTS soundtracks on DTS DVD titles you need a DTS compatible player and DTS receiver/decoder. If you don't have a player with a DTS digital output you can still use DTS titles but you won't hear multi-channel audio, just PCM stereo or 3 channel Dolby Digital depending on the title


I hope that helps you understand the various formats better.


Back to discussing the fronts. As I stated above, Phantom redistributes all center channel information to the sides so you can start out without a center speaker if need be (but be sure to add one as soon as possible).


As for hiding speaker wires should you ever want to add the other speakers...It is not a bad idea to hide them under the carpet. I know Monster makes a flat cable just for this purpose. The thing to do is try to locate the cable under the carpet in an area to have the least amount of traffic. You may have to make runs a little longer to travel say the outer walls of the apt and then around to the specific speaker. I did just that in my college dorm when I was in school. I think your best bet is to get this flat speaker cable. They make it in a super flat mini as well. It can also be painted to blend in perfectly. In your case you can simply run it under the carpet, and nobody will ever know it's there. Check this links out:
http://www.monstercable.com/home_av/...cables/iow.asp
http://www.monstercable.com/productPage.asp?pin=82
http://www.marketware-tech.com/supflatminsp.html


I actually own a complete Definitive Technology speaker system. My system is a 7.1 system. As for a recommendation for just the fronts, i would say you can't go wrong with any of there bipolar powered towers. I have the BP3000TLs, but thay all rock. The BP30000TLs would probably be overkill in a small apt, and would certainly piss-off the neighbors below you :) The BP2006TLs are there most affordable towers that offer all of the benefits of there bigger brothers at an affordable price. You can always talk AV dealers down and deals can be had. They simply have a smaller amp for the sub and can not be driven as loud, but they still sound great.

Check these specs straight from there web site:

BP2006TL Specifications: Dimensions: 6 1/4"W 11 1/2"D x 38"H Response: 19 Hz-30 kHz. Efficiency: 92 dB. Drivers: Two 4 1/2" high definition cast- magnesium basket polymer upper bass/mid range drivers. Two 1" pure aluminum dome tweeters. One 8" subwoofer w/ 250 watt RMS amp. Rec. Amp.: 20-250 watts. Nominal Imp.: 4-8 ohms. Auto On/Off: Signal sensing. Finish: piano gloss black or golden cherry. Weight: 46 lbs. Retail: $599.00 ea.


BP2004TL Specifications: Dimensions: 7"W x 13"D x 41"H Response: 18 Hz-30 kHz. Efficiency: 92 dB. Drivers: 2-5 1/4" cast-basket upper bass/midrange drivers, 2-1" pure aluminum dome tweeters, 1-10" long throw sub w/250-watt RMS amp. Connections: Gold plated five-way binding posts and optional separate LFE inputs. Rec. Amp.: 20-300 watts. Nominal Imp.: 4-8 ohms. Auto On/Off: Signal sensing. Finish: piano gloss black or golden cherry. Weight: 58 lbs. Retail: $799.00 ea


BP2002TL Specifications: Dimensions: 7 1/4"W x 15 13/16"D x 45 7/8"H Response: 17 Hz-30 kHz. Efficiency: 92 dB. Drivers: 4-5.25" cast-basket, bass/midrange drivers, 2-1" pure aluminum dome tweeters in D'Appolito arrays, 12" sub w/250-watt RMS Infinite Power Source amp. Connections: tri-wirable with separate five-way gold binding posts and optional separate low level full range and LFE inputs. Rec. Amp.: 20-400 watts. Nominal Imp.: 4-8 ohms. Auto On/Off: Signal sensing. Finish: piano gloss black or golden cherry. Weight: 71 lbs. Retail: Black $1099 ea.



As you can see the specs don't change that much and they all utilize many of the same drivers and cross-over networks. They basically keep making them with bigger amps and ability to drive them louder. Either way you go you can't go wrong with Definitive Technology. Some people aren't use to the bipolar sound, but I love it. I use my system for movies and music and I've had not complaints from friends. If you can you should try and find a local AV dealer and go audition them before you buy.


I hope this helps.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks Shishio.......I really appreciate the time and effort of your post....


You're right....I can probably add the center speaker no hassle at all.......


I was thinking that I could maybe run the speaker wire along the left side where the wall is located and then directly under the couch to the right side.....Altho I would need twice as long a cable......


Again I do value your time and you have provided me a head start down the right path.......


Thanks to all!
 

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nice post shishio..... and stray definitely add paradigm monitor 90P to your list.
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...rs-7-2001.html

just my humble opinion..... buy a pioneer universal player like the new $ 180 pioneer, plus an onkyo amp [stereo] from www.jandr.com or www.onecall.com for a lil over hundred bucks.

best of both worlds..... movies PLUS the new hi-res multichannel audio formats.

do check out the paradigm monitors.

best wishes
 
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