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" Defiance " - Three Jewish brothers escape from Nazi-occupied Poland into the Belarussian forest, where they join Russian resistance fighters and endeavor to build a village in order to protect themselves and others in danger.


IMHO what could have been a great movie wasn't, wait for this one to come out on DVD and rent it. While I found it interesting it just never pulled me into the story. I see no need to for me to rent this movie or buy the DVD when it comes out, one viewing was enough.


Based on a true story it's sad that it is such a historically inaccurate account of the acutal events.


Worth watching at least once but wait for the DVD.
 

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Agreed, given the powerful story upon which it is based it should have been a far better movie.


However I thought Daniel Craig and Liev Schrieber were both excellent and it is cool that the story of the Bielski's courage is being told, even if somewhat inaccurately.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·

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Originally Posted by Hicks /forum/post/15575714


Agreed, given the powerful story upon which it is based it should have been a far better movie.


However I thought Daniel Craig and Liev Schrieber were both excellent and it is cool that the story of the Bielski's courage is being told, even if somewhat inaccurately.

I'll agreed with you on the performances of Daniel Craig and Liev Schrieber (both were excellent) but there is a lot of debate as to what actually did or did not happen and the movie is no help with all of it's inaccuraties.


Defiance (2008 film) From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Controversies and inaccuracies

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show) Spoiler  
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show) The largest controversy centers around the Naliboki massacre in May 1943, when Polish peasants and members of the Polish resistance were killed by Soviet partisans. (For more on the relations between Polish and Soviet resistance, see Soviet partisans in Poland). While historians have yet to finish their research on that subject, some sources contend that the Bielski partisans participated in the Naliboki massacre with the Soviet partisans.[8] Other sources argue that so far little evidence has been found to suggest the Bielski partisans were responsible for the massacre, and some historians, including Tuvia Bielski's son, claim that the Bielski partisans were not in the area at the time.[9] No mention of this event is present in the film, which has been criticized for this omission, particularly in Poland, and also for glorifying people who may have been responsible for the massacre.


While the issue of the Naliboki massacre remains the most controversial, the Polish press and historians have criticized the movie for other historical inaccuracies. The mainstream Polish journal Gazeta Wyborcza (editor Adam Michnik is of Jewish descent) noted in a series of articles that Zwick inaccurately portrayed the Bielski partisans as actively fighting the German army. Citing research by Polish historians and the Institute of National Remembrance, the critics point out that the Bielski partisans followed a "survivalist" strategy: their goal was to stay alive, not to strike at the Germans. Thus they fled German manhunts and avoided direct confrontations as much as possible.


Further, the background of the movie is criticized. The movie portrays the Navahrudak (Nowogródek) and surrounding areas (pre-war Nowogródek Voivodeship of the Second Polish Republic) as entirely Jewish and Belarusian, while, according to Gazeta Wyborcza, there was a significant Polish minority in those areas. (According to official Polish pre-war census data, Navahrudak was approximately 50% Jews, 25% Poles, 20% Belarusians, and 5% others.) Critics also complain that the movie ignores the significant presence in the region of the Polish resistance, not just the Soviet-allied groups. There have also been complaints that the movie portrays the Bielski partisans as fluent in Russian (or Belarusian), but not Polish, when in fact, according to Gazeta Wyborcza, they were more fluent in Polish, and might have not known Russian at all. However, since the film is mostly in English, it is possible that this is being used as a simplification to represent Polish and Russian, thus making this point moot. Gazeta Wyborcza proposes that the movie's main problem is not the in-progress investigation of the (possibly false) Naliboki connection, but the gross historical inaccuracy of ignoring the dominant Polish element in the background.


The Jewish Press cited the American prosecutor at the Nuremberg Trials, Telford Taylor, as saying that, with regard to movies generally, "historical misrepresentations could leave the uninformed viewer with an inaccurate historical record about what a movie is depicting" while criticizing the fictionalization of the story.


Another claimed inaccuracy is the portrayal of Zus as the next oldest brother after Tuvia, whereas in fact Asael was the next oldest and was in his mid-thirties. (Asael is played by the 23-year-old Jamie Bell.)


While the Bielski brothers are portrayed as heroes, the only living brother, Aron Bielski, a.k.a. Aharon Bielski a.k.a. Aron Bell, was arrested in Florida in 2007 on suspicion of stealing about $250,000 from his Polish Catholic neighbour Janina Zaniewska. Zaniewska was a victim of Nazi imprisonment during the war.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airboss /forum/post/15576556


I'll agreed with you on the performances of Daniel Craig and Liev Schrieber (both were excellent) but there is a lot of debate as to what actually did or did not happen and the movie is no help with all of it's inaccuraties.


Defiance (2008 film) From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Controversies and inaccuracies

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show) Spoiler  
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show) The largest controversy centers around the Naliboki massacre in May 1943, when Polish peasants and members of the Polish resistance were killed by Soviet partisans. (For more on the relations between Polish and Soviet resistance, see Soviet partisans in Poland). While historians have yet to finish their research on that subject, some sources contend that the Bielski partisans participated in the Naliboki massacre with the Soviet partisans.[8] Other sources argue that so far little evidence has been found to suggest the Bielski partisans were responsible for the massacre, and some historians, including Tuvia Bielski's son, claim that the Bielski partisans were not in the area at the time.[9] No mention of this event is present in the film, which has been criticized for this omission, particularly in Poland, and also for glorifying people who may have been responsible for the massacre.


While the issue of the Naliboki massacre remains the most controversial, the Polish press and historians have criticized the movie for other historical inaccuracies. The mainstream Polish journal Gazeta Wyborcza (editor Adam Michnik is of Jewish descent) noted in a series of articles that Zwick inaccurately portrayed the Bielski partisans as actively fighting the German army. Citing research by Polish historians and the Institute of National Remembrance, the critics point out that the Bielski partisans followed a "survivalist" strategy: their goal was to stay alive, not to strike at the Germans. Thus they fled German manhunts and avoided direct confrontations as much as possible.


Further, the background of the movie is criticized. The movie portrays the Navahrudak (Nowogródek) and surrounding areas (pre-war Nowogródek Voivodeship of the Second Polish Republic) as entirely Jewish and Belarusian, while, according to Gazeta Wyborcza, there was a significant Polish minority in those areas. (According to official Polish pre-war census data, Navahrudak was approximately 50% Jews, 25% Poles, 20% Belarusians, and 5% others.) Critics also complain that the movie ignores the significant presence in the region of the Polish resistance, not just the Soviet-allied groups. There have also been complaints that the movie portrays the Bielski partisans as fluent in Russian (or Belarusian), but not Polish, when in fact, according to Gazeta Wyborcza, they were more fluent in Polish, and might have not known Russian at all. However, since the film is mostly in English, it is possible that this is being used as a simplification to represent Polish and Russian, thus making this point moot. Gazeta Wyborcza proposes that the movie's main problem is not the in-progress investigation of the (possibly false) Naliboki connection, but the gross historical inaccuracy of ignoring the dominant Polish element in the background.


The Jewish Press cited the American prosecutor at the Nuremberg Trials, Telford Taylor, as saying that, with regard to movies generally, "historical misrepresentations could leave the uninformed viewer with an inaccurate historical record about what a movie is depicting" while criticizing the fictionalization of the story.


Another claimed inaccuracy is the portrayal of Zus as the next oldest brother after Tuvia, whereas in fact Asael was the next oldest and was in his mid-thirties. (Asael is played by the 23-year-old Jamie Bell.)


While the Bielski brothers are portrayed as heroes, the only living brother, Aron Bielski, a.k.a. Aharon Bielski a.k.a. Aron Bell, was arrested in Florida in 2007 on suspicion of stealing about $250,000 from his Polish Catholic neighbour Janina Zaniewska. Zaniewska was a victim of Nazi imprisonment during the war.

Interesting, although wikipedia doesn't mention the ending battle scene which seemed pretty far fetched to me. But hey if you go to movies looking for historical accuracy you're going to be disappointed 999 times out of 1000.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·

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Originally Posted by Hicks /forum/post/15576679


Interesting, although wikipedia doesn't mention the ending battle scene which seemed pretty far fetched to me. But hey if you go to movies looking for historical accuracy you're going to be disappointed 999 times out of 1000.

True. BTW, Google "Defiance" the movie and you will come up with some interesting articles.
 

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Watched the BD tonite and thought it to be a good film.

Accurate or not, still enjoyable for the wife and me.

The major flaw is the completely unnecessary Hollywood romance angle.

Oh well, it is a HOLLYWOOD movie.
 

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I watched this over the weekend and found it kind of dull. It only kept my attention due to it being based on a true story.


It also seemed they were in and out of their accents all movie long.


I think the thread title sums it up - rental at best.
 

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Watched the rented bD; previous comments accurate: The movie fails to maintain interest; the accents are distracting at best and silly at worst; the "romance" threads seem forced; the movie is fairly disappointing.
 

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I saw this on Saturday with the wife and it does have some pacing problems. Still, a good movie but not great. Interesting subject with fine acting should entice WWII buffs.
 

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I got about half way in then pulled it out of the player. It wasn't that it was bad, just not engaging enough. The cinematography was excellent, the acting was fine, but the story didn't pull me in...went back to TV that night.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ballen420 /forum/post/16660353


It also seemed they were in and out of their accents all movie long.

Yeah, that was distracting to me too.
 

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I've been on the fence about renting this and due to the comments...I'll think I'll pass on it. Thanks for saving me a few bucks and some time!
.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ballen420 /forum/post/16660353


I watched this over the weekend and found it kind of dull. It only kept my attention due to it being based on a true story.

It also seemed they were in and out of their accents all movie long.

I think the thread title sums it up - rental at best.

I would agree with this.

Being a true story was it's only worth.
 

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Like most, I liked this movie and felt Craig did ok but not great. As mentioned the accents were not consistent throughout, Craigs hairdo never changed at all throughout the entire movie which removed a level of realism and a couple of Craigs "rallying" scenes were just plain hokey and out of place. I thought Liev Schreibers performance was compelling though.
 

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My wife and I both liked this movie. We knew that it was based on a true story, but didn't know anything about the controversies or possible enhancements.


Neither of us were bothered by the accents. I thought the overall acting was good. The story was compelling, and some of the scenes did a very good job of getting the viewer to understand the feelings of loss, anger, displacement, and survival. IT was a little surprising to see that the characters were not painted in black and white terms.


The documentary included on the BD was also interesting and worth watching.


This was easily worth a rental.


Scott
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughman /forum/post/16678500


Like most, I liked this movie and felt Craig did ok but not great. As mentioned the accents were not consistent throughout, Craigs hairdo never changed at all throughout the entire movie which removed a level of realism and a couple of Craigs "rallying" scenes were just plain hokey and out of place. I thought Liev Schreibers performance was compelling though.

Another "problem" with this movie was the camera was in love with Craig.

It felt like a third of the movie was close-ups of Craig looking tough/pensive/sad/pissed.


Schreibers performance as a standard ANGRY BROTHER was impressive as a one-dimensional character...IMO.
 

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Worth a rental, a tad long for me.


Did not care for the PQ at all; maybe intentionally grainy and green in the SD version.


What is the truth anyway?
 
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