AVS Forum banner
1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
26,476 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Is it just off axis response characterstics?


or is there something else that defines what soundstage/imaging a driver has?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,333 Posts
I have listened to alot of different speakers, hooked up to the same equipment, and some speakers have the ability to produce a stage where the sound is coming directly in between and back behind where the center of the speakers sit...


Some speakers just don't have the ability to "get out of the box" if you know what I'm saying - it just sounds like you can easily detect that the sound is only coming from the speakers... there is some art in using the right drivers to get a wide deep and large sound stage IMO...


I've also notice a great difference in an A/B with the same speakers and a Yamaha receiver and switching over to a Parasound dedicated preamp. I was astonished that there was a difference in sound staging... but truly a huge difference
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26,476 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Is it the box, baffle size, etc more then the driver?


I have many drivers but its hard to tell if one projects a better soundstage or one has better imaging. Polar plots, distortion Im sure are all parts of being accurate though.


Is imaging just another word for accuracy, detail and clarity which means lower distortion ?



Do speaker designs find drivers that have a better soundstage or do they just design speakers to have a better soundstage?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26,476 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Bessinger /forum/post/16988952


In participating in an advanced HAA workshop, changes to speaker position can have an effect on imaging.

I do agree that room size, room placement, room treatments will impact these subjective terms but I wonder if it all starts with the speaker first.


Can any speaker create a good soundstage with the proper room and placement?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,938 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray /forum/post/16988969


I do agree that room size, room placement, room treatments will impact these subjective terms but I wonder if it all starts with the speaker first.


Can any speaker create a good soundstage with the proper room and placement?

My answer would be no. Somewhere over on the DIY forum where Geddes and others post, one of the posters had a really good article on his website about what it took to get good imaging, but I can't find it right now and can't remember who posted it. May have been Wayne Parnham (spelling?) but I didn't see it on his website.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,526 Posts
Good polar response on and off axis for your intended usage. Too high a directivity, and it can sound like gigantic headphones. Low directivity results in lots of energy reflected off walls and ceilings ( a'la Direct / Repulsive technology ) pioneered by Dr.Amar.


Bass is generally omnipolar in response, you don't get beaming, but you can change the polar response through different techniques like horn loading, dipole radiation ( driver front and rear of enclosure ) etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26,476 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·

·
Registered
Joined
·
256 Posts
I discovered something interesting last year when setting up my fullrange yet cheapie party speakers, in a new location, outside for a BBQ. It was a very quiet morning and the closest house wall was now over 30' away. The darn things actually provided imaging and a realistic soundstage. I then spent some time listening at various distances and speaker separations within reason and it was hard to kill the effect.


Something was going on, maybe "room" effects?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
256 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Face2 /forum/post/16990282


I've heard cheapo HTIB speakers image and soundstage better than some $1,000 speakers. There are are lot of factors involved, the room, associated gear, and of course the speakers.

From my experience outside but in a wide open area for the first time, my guess is that early room reflections are public enemy #1 for imaging and soundstage.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,486 Posts
I thought soundstage was just a lot of BS but when i got into hifi type headphones i could actualy hear the difference but im not sure what it was. If it was better clarity or if the speakers were just matched better or what but i could hear the difference when people said this pair has better soundstage over another.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,526 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by NJTEX /forum/post/16996861


From my experience outside but in a wide open area for the first time, my guess is that early room reflections are public enemy #1 for imaging and soundstage.

Pretty good observation. I would have to add: speakers with a flat power response ( similar on axis and off axis frequency response ) will have an effect on what you hear in room.


Since we hear more of the reflected sound than direct, this has a drastic effect on the perceived tonal balance of the speaker.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
I have found that speakers with a wide baffle are easier to "locate" than those with a narrow baffle. This leads me to believe that enclosure geometery plays a good part in this phenomena. However, phase response as well as power response also seems to affect the soundstage in a significant manner as well. Case in point: CurtC has been working on a pair of speakers with 2 cross-overs to A/B between first order transient perfect and a traditional 2nd/3rd order. The difference in the soundstage is very apparant upon throwing the switch.

My humble rule of thumb...if you want a big soundstage where the speakers "disappear" into the room, go with a very narrow baffle. In my experience, you do lose some imaging, but I think this is part of the reason the itty bitty HTIB speakers tend to sound so spacious.


Wayne
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,995 Posts
It's allot more than "just" drivers...


~15 years ago I got to listen to the Avalon/Spectral/MIT 2C3D system from a super nearfield position. Sitting roughly 2' back from the speakers, they were ~6'-7' apart. The sound appeared to be coming from ~5' behind the speakers. The sound stage seemed to be ~8' wide and was possible the most realistic reproduction of a recording I've experienced to date. The most profound thing about the listening experience was that it was so good as to override what the brain normally does to tell you it's a fake when you listen with your eyes open. Kind of a suspension of disbelief situation that is very hard to achieve at that level. Way beyond WOW, in to full on creepy. The room was acoustically analyzed and treated to a high degree. I'd have to say the lack of early refection was a huge contributing factor in the systems performance. IIRC the cost was ~$125K for the complete 2 channel setup including the CD source, cables, and room treatments.


I've heard very good/more expensive systems both before and since then, but that is the example of what it takes to really go all the way that I keep returning to.
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top