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Discussion Starter #1
I'm new to the home theater world as I just recently got a plasma and new equipment: denon 3803 receiver and 2200 dvd player. I put in an older dvd, the Matrix, and was unimpressed with the quality of the picture. It was somewhat grainy and the colors were muted. I haven't had my plasma calibrated but I do have Directv HD hooked up and the picture quality of the HD programming is unbelievable. Now I know that the dvd quality won't be as good as HD but I thought it would be much better than it is. Have you all experienced the same thing or am I doing something wrong.


Here are some stats:

Monster component video cables and optical audio cable used to connect to the receiver. Monster component video connecting the Fujitsu plasma to the receiver.


I'm using progressive scan on the dvd player but did turn it off and didn't see any noticeable difference.


Thanks a lot for all of your help.


Ron
 

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I had the same experience, Ron. I returned the 2200 to Good Guys and went back to my Harmon Kardon dvd-25 until I can find a better match for the plasma.
 

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I agree, The Matrix is not exactly a film that is going to bowl one over for use of color palette. beyond that, if the Denon 2200 was not impressive for picture quality, then something else was wrong. I recently replaced a Panasonic XP30 and a Yamaha S2300 with the 2200 and find the Denon produces a stunning picture, with color rendition one of its strong suits. That said, it should be noted I am using a calibrated CRT projection display, not a plasma (which I think is over-priced junk).
 

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Couple of points that have already been brought up that I'd like to elaborate on:


1. The Matrix is a neat movie (which I also own), but it's not exactly a reference quality disc. The picture is *intentionally* grainy, particularly in the scenes in "the construct" (solid white background, walls, etc). It also has a green cast and muted colors whenever we are "in the matrix". Try another disc like The Matrix Reloaded (bad movie, but incredible transfer) or maybe some digital animation like Shrek, Monsters Inc., Finding Nemo, etc. A lot of more recent movies are far superior in terms of resolution, color saturation, etc.


2. Plasmas are fixed pixel displays. If the native resolution of your plasma is not 480 vertical lines (which it almost certainly is not), then your plasma will have to scale the incoming 480P signal to whatever your native resolution is (probably something close to 1024 x 768). This scaling usually introduces artifacts, and/or overshadows the benefits of the 480P picture from the progressive scan DVD player. So, it's common to hear plasma owners say they don't see a difference between the interlaced and progressive modes of their DVD player. What is optimal for a plasma is a digital connection (DVI or HDMI) from a player that can output the exact native resolution of your plasma. That will give you a picture that is only scaled once, by one device (the DVD player), and because it's an all digital connection path, should yield a sharper picture.


Hope this helps,


Brian.
 

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You were doing something wrong by using the Matrix as your reference disc. Like others have said, it is intentionally grainy and they use green filters throughout the movie. Shame you took back the 2200 so quick. I want this player.
 

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I think the picture quality on the 2200 is outstanding as well. And, frankly, considering its outstanding audio performance, the great video quality is icing on the cake for me. I find the picture very filmlike, saturated and generally very high quality.


Not to beat a dead horse, but don't judge a DVD player's picture quality using The Matrix. There are many other reference quality disks out there, some of which have been mentioned in this thread.
 

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I totally agree with Robert George that plasma is over-priced junk & not ready for primetime. Front projector is the way if & where possible.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for all of the responses. Beyond everyone's opinions of "plasma is junk" etc, etc., I now understand that the Matrix is not a good reference point dvd. I'll check out others to base the evaluation.


Brien made an interesting point. What dvd players out there have dvi or hdmit connections?


Thanks again everyone.
 

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Quote:
Beyond everyone's opinions of "plasma is junk" etc, etc.,...
Ron:


I realize that is probably not an opinion you will find very useful (and certainly not welcome), it does happen to be pertinent to this discussion. One cannot make an informed and accurate evaluation of a DVD player if the display used is not capable of reproducing the entire spectrum of luminance and chrominance coming out of the player. Additionally, digital displays are rather notorious for being intolerant of analog artifacts such as film grain or even video noise.


So, I guess my point is, no one is really trying to insult your TV, but it must be pointed out your not being impressed with a particular DVD player may well be the fault of your TV, not the player.
 

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Interesting discussion....any suggestions on how/where to get the Denon 2200 (I see some on eBay but can't find the link for this "Soundform").


I came to these threads hoping to get info. on the Sony NS-755. It seems to have disappeared off the face of the Earth. But for a few hundred bucks more, some people who seem to really know their stuff swear by the Denon. The others I've seen mentioned are the Panasonic Rp-82 and 30 models and I might peruse some mid-priced Philips (I hear they are big overseas).


I can't go into the 4-figure range for a DVD player, but I think I can mentally adjust my range from $250 to maybe $500.


Thanks to all the veterans and experts for posting. Some of us novices whose heads are spinning appreciate the definite direction.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Robert George
I I recently replaced a Panasonic XP30 and a Yamaha S2300 with the 2200 and find the Denon produces a stunning picture, with color rendition one of its strong suits.
So Robert, what did you think go gained/lost picture-wise going from XP30->DVD2200?
 

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...what did you think go gained/lost picture-wise going from XP30->DVD2200?
Lost, nothing worth mentioning.


Gained, improved black level/shadow detail (gamma adjustment helps with this), slightly sharper with slightly more fine detail, improved color reproduction (also slightly). Note I used the term "slightly" three times. The improvements are small, but at the level of the XP30 and this Denon, "small" is still worth mentioning.


Also, the 2200 offers me similar performance on DVD-A and SACD that I was getting from the Yamaha S2300. As a result, I was able to replace two players with one.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by bigtvluvr
Thanks to all the veterans and experts for posting. Some of us novices whose heads are spinning appreciate the definite direction.
Go here and look for DVD shoot-out. This is the reference article that all the recommendations on this forum are based upon. Then try to do search on this forum about the specific DVD player that you're interested in.


Rhoniel
 

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Thanks, Rhoniel!


It is a great reference source. Has all the super-technical details all summed up. Would take hours or days to read all reviews here discussing it; great to have that shortcut.


1 thing: I didn't see the Denon 2200 that I've seen mentioned and that Rob George waxes about. Is that a very new model that wasn't reviewed?


The models I've seen mentioned most (that are at least affordable for me) are the Denon 2200 and the Panasonic RP-82 and the 30 models. I came to this site looking for info on the Sony NS-755 so I've become a believer.
 

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:) Yes, the Denon 2200 is so new that a review has yet to be completed on it. Mr. Deering (of Secrets) said a review is forthcoming as soon as he can.


I also have a 2200 and overall it is a wonderful player. Nice built quality, excellent picture, SACD and DVD-A compatibility, (super) full functioned remote (almost too many buttons! ;) ), etc. For many it gives a fabulous, perfect picture right out of the box, for a few monitor combinations it requires some set up tweaking which a due to a variety of controls available are completely possible (gamma, brightness, etc.). Thanks to those controls in the slim possibility you are 'unhappy' with the picture, for whatever reason, it can be changed to suit almost any preference. Overall, well worth the cost!
 

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Great, thanks for the feedback. 2 questions, 1 dumb, 1 reasonable.


1: What is DVD-A?


2: What happened to that Sony NS-755 DVD recorder I saw in HomeTheater in Dec. '02? Did they discontinue it already? Was it supplanted?


It's not as important since in my 2 days here I'm more sold on spending a few more $$$ for the Denon or the other models I'm reading about. I'm just curious.
 

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DVD-A = DVD-Audio, a disc of surround sound DVD music in high resolution sampling rate. Can be played in all DVD players as a 2 channel stereo mix unless mix includes Dolby or DTS mixdown compatibility (which can be output to any Dolby / DTS compatible processor).


If no DVD or DTS mix included requires your amplifier to have multichannel analog inputs, into which the special multichannel analog surround sound outputs of the DVD-A player plugs into and feeds the amplifier (receiver, pre-amp, etc) the multichannel surround mixdown.


(Unless copy protection is OFF, in which case DVD player may (2200 does) output packed PCM digital data via the digital outputs to a processor, but then processor must be able to handle packed PCM data to decode (OK, this is getting complicated... :) )
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by bigtvluvr
Thanks, Rhoniel!

1 thing: I didn't see the Denon 2200 that I've seen mentioned and that Rob George waxes about. Is that a very new model that wasn't reviewed?
Message edited:

You're welcome.

Denon 2200 is the lite version of Denon 2900 (price 1k). 2200 has same video section as of 2900. However audio section (read: analogue audio section) of 2200 is inferior to 2900.


Remember that 2200 can playback DVD-Audio and SACD discs. Try a google search on SACD and DVD-A for more info. Spend few weeks searhing & reading here on AVS forum and you'll learn more than you need to.....:D


When looking for info on good DVD players, shoot-out in Secrets and AVS forum are THE reference sources of information. Forget about any reviews of DVD player's that you read anywhere else, either in print magazines or on internet. They don't know what are they talking about.


Rhoniel
 

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Quote:
As Robert George will tell you that he found PQ (picture quality) of 2200 slightly better than 2900.
Actually, I've never compared the Denon 2900. I found the Denon 2200 superior (PQ) to the Panasonic XP30, The Yamaha DVD-S2300, and the Panasonic RP91.


Combine the excellent video performance of the 2200 with respectable DVD-A and SACD performance and, IMO, this is about the best deal on a universal player on the market today.
 
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