[Arch-Angel]

Can you please tell me the major diferences between the 2307 and the 2807?

I will not be running analog video through the receiver, so I am not concerned about the 2307's inability to deinterlace 480i.

My HDTV will take 480i through HDMI so the OSD is not an issue for me.

I know the remote on the 2307 sucks, but given the price difference between the 2, I can get a really nice harmony or universal..


So other than that, and the 10w/channel amp difference is there any reason to spend the extra $$ on the 2807?


Thanks,

Matt

 

[soundlovr]

Audyssey is the main reason. There's a number of threads recently that discuss the other differences, but it boils down to what prices you can get each for, what you're willing to spend, and how much you value the features that are different. I can say confidently that ditching Audyssey and replacing it with a universal remote is something I would never personally consider.

 

[Arch-Angel]



Quote:
Originally Posted by soundlovr /forum/post/0


I can say confidently that ditching Audyssey and replacing it with a universal remote is something I would never personally consider.

Can you explain why? From what I understand, the Audyssey feature really only helps with the initial setup, but you will probably tweak the settings some more from there. After that, does it ever get used again?


Thanks,

Matt

 

[Arch-Angel]

Any other input would be a great help

 

[David Aiken]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch-Angel /forum/post/0


Can you explain why? From what I understand, the Audyssey feature really only helps with the initial setup, but you will probably tweak the settings some more from there. After that, does it ever get used again?


Thanks,

Matt

Audyssey is a chip which Denon use under licence to do the EQ for their receivers from the 2807 on up. My feeling is that it does more than the Denon auto EQ in the lower models in Denon's range. You can do a manual setup with all models.


You can tweak the settings later, but my feeling is that the frequency curve display that you get showing the Audyssey settings isn't a very accurate display of the actual Audyssey curve, after all it is basically an octave band display and the Audyssey chip is apparently not limited to making octave band adjustments. You can pick up a lot more info on the Audyssey EQ approach on Audyssey's own web site.


-------------------------


In response to the original query re differences between the 2307 and 2807 other than Audyssey, my feeling is that some aspects of the overall build are noticeably better on the 2807 than on the 2307. For instance, the version of the 2807 released in Australia uses a captive power cord rather than the IEC power cord used in the US version. The 2807 has tighter and slightly better specifications in several areas.


David Aiken

 

[soundlovr]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch-Angel /forum/post/0


Can you explain why? From what I understand, the Audyssey feature really only helps with the initial setup, but you will probably tweak the settings some more from there. After that, does it ever get used again?

Tweaking the settings doesn't mean that you abandon the Audyssey though... it just means you tweak the settings. Audyssey's an extremely advanced room equalization routine that works to ensure that your frequency response is flattened out and that the room echoes aren't causing some frequencies to surge and others to be drowned out. Since a flat response from your system is what everyone is after, I'm a huge Audyssey fan and can't imagine going back to a situation without it. Tweaking after setup maintains the equalization even if you change speaker sizes, crossovers, etc.

 

[Arch-Angel]

OK - But everything that audessey does, one can do manually instead, right? This is primarily a setup feature to simplify initial eq settings? Or is there something more complex to it that can not be duplicated without it?

 

[Skyhart]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch-Angel /forum/post/0


OK - But everything that audessey does, one can do manually instead, right? This is primarily a setup feature to simplify initial eq settings? Or is there something more complex to it that can not be duplicated without it?

It depends on one's proficiency...but, yes, it could be done.

 

[psujohny]



Quote:
OK - But everything that audessey does, one can do manually instead, right?

NO ..it cant be done, let me repeat it CANT be done..There seems to be a disconnect here on the forum by some that Auddesey just sets up distance, levels and the like...Its an entirely different animal to EQ a system.


Not unless you buy a very expensive stand-alone equalizer and have the knowledge and ability to eq your system properly. And even then you wouldnt have the benifit of the Auddessey algorithyms

 

[Arch-Angel]

Hmmm....

OK, well let me ask this then:

How much of an improvement on sound quality are we talking about here compared to what one can accomplish manually on the same system?

 

[psujohny]



Quote:
How much of an improvement on sound quality are we talking about here compared to what one can accomplish manually on the same system?

It depends on the room environment ..but allmost everybody except the very very few luckiest of people who have a perfect room ( and have probably put mega-buck into room treatment ) ..have basically horrible acoustic rooms ..In both my rooms the auto eq had to work alot of magic to get my response curves etc. to close to an exceptable level. To my ears the improvement was such that I wont go back to reciever /and or pre-pro that doesnt have one.

Also, as I said you cant do ANY of this own your own...not with a reciever/pre-pro that doesnt have an eq ( unless you have an expensive stand-alone eq and a major understanding of how to eq a system )...hint not an easy thing to learn and it would cost you more in the end anyway.

 

[Arch-Angel]

Would you say that this is improvement justifies the $300 price difference?

 

[mojomike]

To me, unquestionably yes.

 

[psujohny]

I apologize as I just flipped thru the 2307 manual online ..I didnt realize that the 2307 DOES have an EQ system ( its just not AUDYSSEY EQ)..

Hmm, this changes things. Since Ive only had the 3806 and 2807 I cant tell you first hand how the "plain jane" EQ version of the 2307 does versues Audyssey..Im sure it isnt as detailed but hey its at least some kind of EQ.

Maybe somebody whos had experience with both EQ systems can give us the dirty details as far as the differences go.

 

[soundlovr]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch-Angel /forum/post/0


OK - But everything that audessey does, one can do manually instead, right? This is primarily a setup feature to simplify initial eq settings? Or is there something more complex to it that can not be duplicated without it?

As others have said in bold letters already: No. You cannot compare a 9-band PEQ to a complex system like Audyssey, they aren't even close to the same. Consider that your room-correction-needs increase as the frequency decreases. The majority of room-based sound problems happen at the subwoofer-level of sound. The manual PEQ has 1 band in that frequency range. And the PEQ does no correction in the time domain, so your manual adjustments will serve to smear the sound. A number of the 2807's 512 FIR filters deal with that frequency range and do phase-corrections at the same time. If you really need something tangible to understand the differences, play a test-tone disc with tones from 20 to 400Hz in 10Hz increments and plot the dB into an audiophile graph using a SPL meter. Audyssey will be flat within +/-3dB to the mean (within your speakers frequency response range). Then have a look at your manually adjusted graph. Flat won't likely be a term that you'll use to describe it.

 

[Arch-Angel]

This is very interesting and informative and definitely has me thinking twice about which way to go. My next question is: since it is clear that there is a visual difference on a graph with a SPL meter (I don't even know what this is - sorry) - how much of a difference is noticeable to the ear, and what "Type" of sound quality improvement would one expect to hear from a system that is Audyssey EQ'd vs. standard auto EQ'd

Thanks in advance,

Matt

 

[goldielox]

Another solution would be to go with the Denon 987, which is supposedly the same as the 2807, but more in line with the 2307CI's pricing.

 

[Arch-Angel]

bump

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch-Angel /forum/post/0


This is very interesting and informative and definitely has me thinking twice about which way to go. My next question is: since it is clear that there is a visual difference on a graph with a SPL meter (I don't even know what this is - sorry) - how much of a difference is noticeable to the ear, and what "Type" of sound quality improvement would one expect to hear from a system that is Audyssey EQ'd vs. standard auto EQ'd

Thanks in advance,

Matt

 

[soundlovr]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch-Angel /forum/post/0


TMy next question is: since it is clear that there is a visual difference on a graph with a SPL meter (I don't even know what this is - sorry)

It's just a meter that measures how loud a sound is. Radio Shack's is the most popular though you can find a number of brands online.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch-Angel /forum/post/0


...how much of a difference is noticeable to the ear, and what "Type" of sound quality improvement would one expect to hear from a system that is Audyssey EQ'd vs. standard auto EQ'd

There's no firm answer for that since everyone is using different speakers in different rooms. If the nature of your room is such that you have a lot of reflections and hard surfaces, you might end up with some huge bass-swells. If your room is a basic rectangle with lots of sound-dampening objects (heavy curtains, thick rugs, big plush/poofy furniture), your swells and dips might be quite minor. Take for instance if your speakers in your room in the positions you've put them in happen to produce an +8dB surge around 55Hz (a not-uncommon problem). That's a big bass-swell and eliminating it will produce a profound difference in your listening experience. On the other hand, if your room is accoustically very neutral with bass traps and sound treatments, Audyssey may not have many large and dramatic corrections to make in the frequencies. It will still time-align everything if need be though to ensure a proper soundstage.


The other point to consider is that a "flat response" is not what a lot of people prefer. You'll find a ton of posts on the board about how Audyssey reportedly made people's systems "dull and lifeless." Audyssey doesn't work as a slave to your personal tastes in reproduction; it simply ensures the most accurate sound is being reproduced. If you're somebody who loves thundering bass or extremely amplified highs (or any other not-accurate equalization), then you too may be unhappy with the accoustics that Audyssey gives you. In that case, you may end up turning it off if the bass and treble controls don't do enough to create the sound that you like with Audyssey. No matter what, you need to have an idea about the sound that you want in the end before you make decisions on what equipment you want reproducing the sound. For me, I'm all about accuracy. I want what's on the source to be exactly what I hear in my room. Audyssey is a big step towards getting that, so it's two thumbs up from me.

 

[bobpaule]

2307 is Hecho en China y no have pre outs

Believe it or not i'm planning on keeping my Anthem D1 and buying one of these cheapos for my 2 HMDI audio sources, then 8 channel pre out to the D1.


The Onkyo and Marantzes are out cuz can only do 5.1 via PCM. So now its between the Pio Elite 81 and Denny 987.