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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've watched over 250 movies on my trusty 2900. Never noticed a layer change. Ever. One of the strong points of this machine (and the other Denon models mentioned).


Now suddenly I'm starting to see them on new discs!
Three I've viewed recently are Dr. No (55:24) and Moonraker (59:26) (from new James Bond Ultimate Edition set) and Texas Chainsaw Masascre: The Beginning (1:11:40).


I checked my Sony 9000 layer change indicator to make sure the "freeze" was exactly at the layer change. And yes it was.


Then I took these discs to my friends house, as he has a 2900 also. Sure enough the layer change was visible. He was shocked too - as he had never seen a layer change on his 2900 either. He watches more movies than me. So it's not my machine.


The Moonraker layer change takes place right at the chapter change - so this could be the problem there. But the other layer changes took place in the middle of the chapter.


Any ideas?
 

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Changes in the middle of a chapter are poor encodings. I don't recall seeing one of those. And if I did, it's been a while. My player isn't lightning quick but the audio drops and my receiver "clicks" going out of and then into DD or DTS again. The audible noise it what draws my attention. A 1/2 second or less scene change is no big deal to me - nor is the audible click. I'm not picking about layer changes. It only happens once.



larry
 

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I don't get why layer changes still exist. Product engineers need to add a decent memory buffer. How hard is that? Maybe on a $50 player it's not cost-effective. But on mid to high-end players? There should be no layer delay.
 

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I haven't seen a layer change on my 2930ci in so long that I forgot that they exist. I watch 2 - 3 movies a week and I just don't notice them on this machine.



shane
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by shane55 /forum/post/0


I haven't seen a layer change on my 2930ci in so long that I forgot that they exist. I watch 2 - 3 movies a week and I just don't notice them on this machine.



shane

I forgot layer changes exist too - till this week. When you're not use to seeing them - they are quite a jolt when you do.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jephdood /forum/post/0


I don't get why layer changes still exist. Product engineers need to add a decent memory buffer. How hard is that? Maybe on a $50 player it's not cost-effective. But on mid to high-end players? There should be no layer delay.

These Denon models do feature an 8MB buffer to eliminate layer changes. But for some reason - 8MB is no longer enough. And they're starting to be visible again.
 

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The disc producers do have to make an effort to line up the layer change. The data on the disc should be arranged so that the head progresses from the inside to the outside on the first layer, then jumps to roughly the same point on the second layer, and then progresses inwards.


If they haven't got it lined up, so the head needs to do a big seek to find the resumption point on the second layer, the drive's buffer may not be enough.


It could be that they can't be bothered to line it up properly. Maybe drive buffers are getting bigger (especially on PCs?) so when they test it on a PC, say, they're not noticing the duff authoring.
 

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Have a 3930CI and haven't noticed any layer changes.
 

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I own a 2900 and haven't seen a single layer change (which used to drive me nuts with my Pio 563a), including the new 007 DVDs. I haven't tried Moonraker specifically, but since that set is now on the way (
) I can try it soon.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cap'n Jazz /forum/post/0


I own a 2900 and haven't seen a single layer change (which used to drive me nuts with my Pio 563a), including the new 007 DVDs. I haven't tried Moonraker specifically, but since that set is now on the way (
) I can try it soon.

YES - please try Moonraker and report back. The layer change occurs right at 59:26.
 

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I had the '2900 for more than 3 1/2 years and now I've got the '3930CI. Never had a problem with layer change with either one. Both are superb for the music and the '3930 is second in the world only to the Denon DVD 5910CI for SD video.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by s2silber /forum/post/0


I had the '2900 for more than 3 1/2 years and now I've got the '3930CI. Never had a problem with layer change with either one. Both are superb for the music and the '3930 is second in the world only to the Denon DVD 5910CI for SD video.

Try Moonraker (or the new Texas Chainsaw Massacre: A New Beginning) and you may see that your 3 1/2 year "never a problem w/ a layer change" has suddenly come to an end (as happened to me).
 

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Did play the DVD The Texas Chainsaw Massacre: The Beginning 3 day's ago,


No Layer chance visible on my DVD-3930.


DVD runs smooth en perfect also with the audio channel no problems at all.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Ballentine /forum/post/0


Try Moonraker (or the new Texas Chainsaw Massacre: A New Beginning) and you may see that your 3 1/2 year "never a problem w/ a layer change" has suddenly come to an end (as happened to me).

Those aren't movies I'm dying to see right now, but if they every find their way home to me I'll let you know about them, as well as any other layer change delays I may experience.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchman01 /forum/post/0


Did play the DVD The Texas Chainsaw Massacre: The Beginning 3 day's ago,


No Layer chance visible on my DVD-3930.


DVD runs smooth en perfect also with the audio channel no problems at all.


Good to know! The 3930 (which I'm contemplating upgrading to) may have a superior buffer.
 

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I also have a 2900 and I'm having problems with Moonraker too. And also the new edition of Octopussy.


It seems these discs have been badly manufactured. It's not entirely the fault of the Denon.


I'm looking to upgrade to a 2930 for upscaling and would be interested to know how that deals with these Bond glitches.
 
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