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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm trying to decide between these two, and wonder whether the 2910 is worth the additional cost. I realize that's subjective, but it would be helpful to know some facts or opinions about what ways, if any, people have found the 2910 to be superior.


I would use the player with a Sony 34 XBR 910 HD tube, but plan to use it with a plasma in 2 yrs or so. Video is my first priority, as I have no hi res discs now, but I definitely want to get some new discs (which is why I want a universal player to begin with) so audio is of some importance. The only digital input on my TV is DVI, so I'm concerned (wrongly?) about the possible inferiority of the 1920's HDMI to DVI connection vs the 2910's DVI to DVI. I realize macroblocking is a common issue with all farouja players, but I don't know if that will be an issue with my TV. Thanks for any help.
 

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In your case, the DVI input on your TV is the limitation (8 bit per color). HDMI can carry 8, 10, or 12 bit info (whichever your DVD player can output). Thus, the HDMI->DVI connection will be no worse (or no better) than the DVI->DVI connection. So, no need to worry. If you're planning to buy a plasma in the near future, you should definitely buy a DVD player with HDMI output.


Macroblocking should not be a major issue with a tube set.


If I do the math correctly, there should be a 2920 coming up real soon. The question is when?
 

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I have a Sony CRT RPTV and with a 2910 I did have bad macroblocking. Tuning it helped, but it was noticable at times. But I find that its PQ was pretty good and worth living with it even with some MB.
 

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I went through this scenario two weeks ago and chose the 2910. Why?

* Better BB DAC's w/ more memory

* No DSD to PCM conversion for SACD (kind of defeats the purpose, no?)

* HDMI out

* Reputation of the unit


The key factor however, was that I didn't ever want to be in a situation where I was using the 1920 and yet heard a little voice asking if the 2910 could have done it better. Second guessing yourself can and will drive you nuts. Peace of mind is worth $300.


As for the macroblocking, I was able to significantly reduce it on my JVC DILA simply by switching from HDMI YPBR output to HDMI RGB, although I have no idea why that worked. Once my DVE disc comes in and I dial it in a little more, I'll try switching back and forth, but for now this does nicely.


Hope this helps.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by topspeed
I went through this scenario two weeks ago and chose the 2910. Why?

* Better BB DAC's w/ more memory

* No DSD to PCM conversion for SACD (kind of defeats the purpose, no?)

* HDMI out

* Reputation of the unit


The key factor however, was that I didn't ever want to be in a situation where I was using the 1920 and yet heard a little voice asking if the 2910 could have done it better. Second guessing yourself can and will drive you nuts. Peace of mind is worth $300.


As for the macroblocking, I was able to significantly reduce it on my JVC DILA simply by switching from HDMI YPBR output to HDMI RGB, although I have no idea why that worked. Once my DVE disc comes in and I dial it in a little more, I'll try switching back and forth, but for now this does nicely.


Hope this helps.
Thanks, that does help. Could you please clarify: what does "BB" refer to? What are the consequences of no DSD to PCM conversion (I assume you mean the 1920)? When you say HDMI out do you mean that the 1920 has no DVI out?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigfan9999
what does "BB" refer to? ?
Burr-Brown is the company who makes the Digital to Analog converters for Denon. From the little I know, they both look good to me. The DACs in the 1920 are probably cheaper, but I hope to use mostly digital outputs anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigfan9999
What are the consequences of no DSD to PCM conversion (I assume you mean the 1920)?
I am confused too. If you want access to the multi-channel (SACD) digital stream, I thought you needed DenonLink or i.Link, which neither the 2910 nor 1920 have?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigfan9999
When you say HDMI out do you mean that the 1920 has no DVI out?
Right, the 1920 has only HDMI. So if you go into a DVI input on the display, you get the same bits. The downside, however, is that since there is only one, you cannot use the HDMI for audio into your receiver. Although I wonder if you had a receiver like the Denon 3806, you could use a single HDMI into the 3806, strip the audio off of that, then DVI into the display? Should be little or no downside to using the receiver to do video switching if it is pure digital, but has anyone tried this?


I am inclined to go with the 1920 today (as soon as our construction finishes!) and then start saving up for the Blue-Ray or HD-DVD player in five years.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by topspeed
I went through this scenario two weeks ago and chose the 2910. Why?

...* No DSD to PCM conversion for SACD (kind of defeats the purpose, no?)....
This is handled the same way for both the 1920 and the 2910. So you can eliminate this as a deciding factor. The Denon website has that info on the product sheets for the two models:


1920 uses DSD-1608 Burr-Brown's with discrete decoding of PCM and DSD audio signals


2910 uses DSD-1791 Burr-Brown's with discrete decoding of PCM and DSD audio signals


In turn, each player only outputs SACD audio over its' analog RCA connects.


Also, the 1920 uses the HDMI 1.1 interface, which means that it will pass DVD-Audio multichannel in digital form to a HDMI 1.1 receiver or pre-pro. The 2910 cannot pass DVD-Audio in the digital domain, and without an updated HDMI board, will not in the near future. It is not a simple firmware update.


The 2920, which I believe has not been announced, would surely update to a 1.1 HDMI spec.
 

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Quote:
Also, the 1920 uses the HDMI 1.1 interface, which means that it will pass DVD-Audio multichannel in digital form to a HDMI 1.1 receiver or pre-pro. The 2910 cannot pass DVD-Audio in the digital domain, and without an updated HDMI board, will not in the near future. It is not a simple firmware update.
I just bought an open-box 2910 build date June 2005. Below the HDMI plug there is a little sticker that says "Ver. 1.1". I think they might of upgraded the HDMI plug. This may allow a firmware upgrade to add this feature.


What else would they improve on a 2920?
 

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There is an informative document at the US Denon web site.


Denon 2005/06 DVD Features Chart

usa+denon+com/catalog/pdfs/2005_06%20Home%20DVD%20Feature%20Web.pdf


(Sorry for the broken link, but I'm not allowed to post any links within my first 5 posts, just change the pluses to a dot to make the url valid.)


It looks like the 2910 and 3910 has been updated to hdmi1.1 during summer
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBtech
There is an informative document at the US Denon web site.


Denon 2005/06 DVD Features Chart

usa+denon+com/catalog/pdfs/2005_06%20Home%20DVD%20Feature%20Web.pdf


(Sorry for the broken link, but I'm not allowed to post any links within my first 5 posts, just change the pluses to a dot to make the url valid.)


It looks like the 2910 and 3910 has been updated to hdmi1.1 during summer
Good find. Some questions about differences between the 2 players:


1. no 4:3 squeeze on the 2910. Does this mean you are forced to watch 4:3 DVDs stretched to fill a 16:9 TV?


2. no built in Dolby Digital, dts decoders. Is this insignificant (since typically you'd run the sound via digital connection to an AVR, thus using the AVR's decoders)?


3. no DVD-A, SACD decoders. Could this be right? If you use the 5.1 analog outs, how would this work?


4. 2 MB vs 8 MB buffer to decrease layer change. Is this important?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigfan9999
Good find. Some questions about differences between the 2 players:

3. no DVD-A, SACD decoders. Could this be right? If you use the 5.1 analog outs, how would this work?
If there are no DVD-A and SACD decoders, you'd only get static hiss on the 5.1 analog out ;)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigfan9999
2. no built in Dolby Digital, dts decoders. Is this insignificant (since typically you'd run the sound via digital connection to an AVR, thus using the AVR's decoders)?
Um... Both the 1920 and 2910 have DD/DTS decoders built-in. I believe if you run the sound out of the analog outputs then the dvd player will decode it otherwise the avr decodes out of the digital out. Or am I way off on this?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigfan9999
1. no 4:3 squeeze on the 2910. Does this mean you are forced to watch 4:3 DVDs stretched to fill a 16:9 TV?


2. no built in Dolby Digital, dts decoders. Is this insignificant (since typically you'd run the sound via digital connection to an AVR, thus using the AVR's decoders)?


3. no DVD-A, SACD decoders. Could this be right? If you use the 5.1 analog outs, how would this work?


4. 2 MB vs 8 MB buffer to decrease layer change. Is this important?
1) Good question. I have no idea. Guess I'll pull out some old dvd's and find out...


2) It has built-in dd/dts decoders, although you can let your AVR do the processing as well.


3) They both have dvd-a/sacd decoders built-in. You have to use the analog outs to "external in" (Denon terminology, not mine) on the AVR which has analog in's for 7.1.


4) More memory is always a good thing :).


I think a lot of this is how seriously you take this little hobby of ours. For me, I was sold on the BB DAC's as I'm familiar with them and consider them one of, if not the best at decoding rbcd's, of which I have hundreds. In the priority department, music comes first, second, and third for me.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_006
if not the best at decoding rbcd's,


What's an rbcd?
Short for Redbook CD. They are your standard audio CDs.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by topspeed
I went through this scenario two weeks ago and chose the 2910. Why?

* Better BB DAC's w/ more memory

* No DSD to PCM conversion for SACD (kind of defeats the purpose, no?)

* HDMI out

* Reputation of the unit


The key factor however, was that I didn't ever want to be in a situation where I was using the 1920 and yet heard a little voice asking if the 2910 could have done it better. Second guessing yourself can and will drive you nuts. Peace of mind is worth $300.


As for the macroblocking, I was able to significantly reduce it on my JVC DILA simply by switching from HDMI YPBR output to HDMI RGB, although I have no idea why that worked. Once my DVE disc comes in and I dial it in a little more, I'll try switching back and forth, but for now this does nicely.


Hope this helps.
Topspeed, these are exactly the very same reasons I ordered the 2910 yesterday...should be here from Crutchfield by mid-week! Looking forward to it.
 

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i need some help and thought you all might be able to help me out.... i own the denon 1705... and just love it! but my question is... i want to use my tv as the center channel in my setup (as well as the center speaker which goes on top of the tv... the sony e50a10 i just bought has the hidden speakers on the bottom) anyway, how do you go audio out into the audio in on the tv and get it to work? i tried both the CDR and VCR audio out on the denon... and that doesn't work. No idea how i get that to work...????

Any help would be greatly appreciated... Chad
 
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