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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello everybody:


I am having a problem deciding between Denon 3803 AVR and Pioneer VSX-43TX. Where I live, the price difference is US$65 higher for the 3803. However, the Pioneer VSX-45TX is about US$270 higher than Denon 3803.


I would like to buy Rotel RSX 1055 but it costs almost US$525 more than 3803 (i.e. where I live). Application is about 65% music 35% HT. I am planning on buying Paradigm studio 40 (front pair); studio center and studio 20 as rear surround pair for a 5.1 system with an Adire Shiva 12" sub. And later on adding another 2 studio 20s for a 7.1 system.


Apart from the listening tests, I realise many of you can tell which of these is a better built product based on the components that are used to assemble these AVRs. Can anyone help me by making a comparasion like the one made in another thread between 47TX and 45TX.


Looking forward to your views.


Perry


P/S I have corrected the error which was picked up by Coach. It should not read as 'Pioneer VSX-47TX is about US$270 higher than ... Apologies to all and thanks to Coach.
 

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You might want to double check, but the 47tx should be about $1200 more than the Denon 3803. It is most likely the 45tx that is priced about $270 more than the 3803. If, in fact, it is the 47tx that is only priced $270 above the 3803; grab it up and don't look back.


As far as the 43tx goes, it is a nice little receiver, but I would have a hard time recommending it since the 45tx is usually only a couple of hundred more. The 45tx includes a much better remote control and has the auto-MCACC included.


Again, if it is the 47tx that is priced only $270 more than the 3803...it should be a no-brainer to get the 47tx.
 

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Hello


I just want to clarify the retail prices of each reciver. I am going buy Sound and Vision's Buyers Guide 2003 so they could be a bit off.


Denon AVR-3803 $1200 US

Pioneer VSX-43tx $1200 US

Pioneer VSX-45tx $1400 US

Pioneer VSX-47tx $3000 US


There are many factors you can look at to see which reciver will be the best for your money. The Denon has video upconversion at 100mhz so you only need one video out put instead of two or three. The Pioneer has MCACC which will set up everything so it takes less time to set up(43 is manual MCACC and 45 and up are Auto MCACC). They also have THX if it is a big concern(43 and 45 THX select, 47and49 THX Ultra2). They also have a rs-232 port for upgrading. the denon does not have one until you get into the 4802, 4802r, 5803. I also want to bring up the subject of seperates. Are you going to upgrade to seprates down the road? I would like to mention what my dealer said to me. He told me not to spend to much on a reciver like $4000-$5000 he said to stay between $1000-$2500 if you can since technology is always changing. That way you don't spend to much and realize you could have put your money else where.IE: speakers.


Take your time and make the right choice.


Good Luck On your purchase!


GOLDEN-EAGLE!
 

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Hey there Perry,


Just a guess, but are you from Canada? (How did I guess)


From Pioneer's Canadian website, pricing for Elite Receivers:


43TX -> $1799

45TX -> $2399


no small potatoes there. I priced the 43TX over the weekend and got a price diff of about $500+, and the guy told me that the main difference was the MCACC on the 43TX was done manually (go buy a Radio Shack SPL meter and save some money, so he said)


47TX -> $3700


I'm personally going to save my pennies and stretch all the way and get the Rotel 1055.


A good friend, who is getting out of 2-channel audio, just picked up the 1066 and swapped out an older Pioneer Elite receiver (don't know which model, but it is an older unit) he was using to pre-out to his marantz amps, and said the Rotel sounded vastly better (same speakers, same amps, only changed the pre/pro).


Anyway, I don't think you can really go wrong with the Denon or Pioneer either. Good luck with whatever you decide
 

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Just FYI, my local authorized Pioneer dealer, who charges all the market will bear, sells the Pioneer Elite VSX-45TX for $1200. It can be found cheaper still...
 

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Hello



I agree with Twitchie if you can save your money to get the Rotel 1055 you won't regret it. It is like the Rsp 1066 but with a amp and tuner inside. Don't let the 75 watts get to you IMO I think the rotel will power the paradigms with ease. Their amps are build solid. It is even software upgradable. Also see if your dealer discounts if he does you could get it cheaper that what they sell it for. I had a dealer who was going to sell me a Pioneer VSX-43TX for $1499 Canadian, VSX-45tx for $1899 Canadian. Which he discounted. Also the denon avr 3803 for $1799 Canadian. And he is an authorized dealer.



Good Luck


GOLDEN-EAGLE!
 

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Quote:
I agree with Twitchie if you can save your money to get the Rotel 1055 you won't regret it. It is like the Rsp 1066 but with a amp and tuner inside.
Does it also have all the bass management flaws of the 1066? Specifically with 2 channel analog audio, not offering a high-pass crossover for the main speakers.


Not debating the performance, as I'm sure it's a very good performer. I just listen to a lot of analog music and if the receiver can't add bass management for an analog 2 channel signal, I don't want it. At the Home Theater Forum, the NAD receiver was found to have the same bass management flaw in analog 2 channel stereo. There was a discussion in how to create a work around that wouldn't create double bass or lose the bass output of the sub. This is especially important for people who use high quality satellite speakers that would distort extremely bad from the omission of a high-pass crossover. If the 1055 is 'different' from the 1066, it would catch my interest. If not, it's incompatible with my system which has tower speakers that only go to about 50Hz. I don't want the degradation from loss of low bass or the double bass.


If one uses a subwoofer that has a built in high-pass crossover, a work around would be easy. Just set your main speakers as large and use speaker level outputs to the sub and the sub's speaker level outputs to your main speakers. Unfortunately, most powered subwoofers don't include "high" pass crossovers, just their variable low-pass crossover.


Have a good one.
 

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I'm extremely happy with my AVR-3803. It's preamp section is compromised of audiophile features and it sure sounds like it. It easily outperforms my Yamaha RX-V2095 that was $500 more! I won't go into the feature list that seems unmatched by any receiver in it's class. Denon's site lists all of it's features.


The video up-conversion processing is excellent and actual 'improves' quality. Not with resolution but eliminating color bleed that's common with S-Video and composite video. Using the color bar test on Video Essential's DVD, the elimination of color bleed is a definite signal improvement that's easily seen when switching back and forth from S-Video and component video on your television. I've never seen any post mention that the up-conversion does this. I can't believe so many have overlooked this! I am definitely impressed. Add that to no loss of resolution or quality through the process and the result is in the positive direction.


Since I'm more of a purist and don't like adding any tone, equalization, or DSPs to my music or surround formats(other than the DPL DSP), MCACC was a feature I definitely would never use. I like to keep the sound as it was recorded, but many others don't. So it's a preference.


For the reasons above, the Pioneer wasn't even a consideration of mine. Many others have stated that the 45TX sounds awesome and I don't doubt that. I just didn't care for the 27TX I heard. It was not very musical but many state the 45TX has addressed the previous model's sonic characteristics.


I suggest listen first, and make a decision what you like best. Then make a decision based on the sound against the features. If the difference isn't large to you with the sonics, go by the features you'll use the most.


Good luck in your decision.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hello again:


As pointed out by Golden-Eagle, the 3803 and 43TX are similar in price. So a choice between them would be based on a listening test, reported reliablity and the value of the components used to build each unit.


Well. Which of these has a better power supply? A better processing unit? Better construction? Better decoding engine? Better connectivity?


I look forward for your views on the technical aspects. The Hammerhead Sharc and the Burr-Brown 'thingeys' that I don't really know about. Someone had done a good analysis between 47TX and 45TX on another tread.


Twitchie - your guess is off - I am from Malaysia. And MikeRP my mother must have been fond of Perry Mason who was created by Erle Stanley Gardner.


Perry
 

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Perry,


I don't know the guts of the Pioneers. With the Denon however, the Hammerhead Sharc processor is believed by many to be the best processor available. As with DACs, Burr Brown is also considered one of the best DAC/ADC manufacturers. Many of the parts used in the Denon AVR-3803 are also used in the AVR-5803 which is $4300! The DACs in the 5803 are Burr-Brown but are a different model that handles SACD's DSD format to be used with a digital link. The processor, ADCs, up-conversion circuit and some other parts, are all the same as with the AVR-5803.


One of the strong points of the Denon is it's 192/24 bit "ANALOG TO DIGITAL CONVERTERS"(ADCs). It also has 192/24 bit DACs but so do many good receivers. The ADCs is something that actually helps fidelity as the analog signal is converted into a high resolution 192/24 bit signal. My older Yamaha had only 48Khz/20 bit ADCs. The digital conversion of the Denon offers a very high resolution that's indistinguishable from the original analog signal(using analog bypass) to my ears. The Denon also offers digital audio up-conversion to 192Khz/24 bit resolution. In other words it'll take a CD's 44.1Khz/16 bit digital audio resolution and up-convert it to a 192Khz/24 bit digital resolution through the Denon's Alpha 24 processing. While the resolution of the original can't change, it does help to lower the noise floor of the original.


The Denon has 4 optical and 2 coaxial digital inputs on the rear. It also has 2 optical digital outputs on the rear. It has 7 video inputs that include S-Video and composite video and has 3 'assignable' component inputs. 2 of of the video inputs are VCR tape loops with in/outputs. It also has a tape/CDR input/output loop along with a CD input. Also are 12 volt triggers for use on other A/V components and a serial port for home automation. Includes 2 sets of 'side' surround outputs to compliment audio "&" video. The receiver settings are also independent for each set of 'side' surrounds. Each sound mode has individual memory for speaker levels and subwoofer option on/off. Component output has 'on-screen' display. The on-screen display is the composite or S-Video signal that's up-converted to overlay the original component video signals. If no S-Video or composite video cables are used for the source, the on-screen information will be displayed on a black screen that overlays the original component video. Also the Denon has a separate LFE level control for "BOTH" Dolby Digital and DTS. Now a days, more and more receivers are using "1" LFE level control that's used for both Dolby and DTS.


Also the Denon AVR-3803 is made in "JAPAN" and it states that right on the receiver. Many receivers aren't made in Japan anymore. I have no idea where the Pioneer is made.


That's all I can think of that may help you in making a decision. Perhaps someone will post the Pioneer's highlights.


Have a good one.


EDIT:....Sorry, I was in a hurry. The AL24 is 96Khz/24 bit up-conversion, not 192Khz. Also, the 'assignable' component inputs are 2, not 3.
 

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Hello


Mike Up, has covered most of the areas. I would like to add that the Pioneer has MOSFET amps inside. I am not sure on the Denon. Also the manual for the Denon is horrible. You will scratch a hole in your head by the tim you figure it out. Here are links to www.audioreview.com where by people who bought the product or tried it out express their experiences.


Denon Avr 3803.

http://www.audioreview.com/A-V+Recei...6_2718crx.aspx


Pioneer 43tx

http://www.audioreview.com/A-V+Recei...3_2718crx.aspx



GOLDEN-EAGLE!
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Hello everyone:


Many thanks for the tech info so far, especially on the 3803. Hope some more will be forthcoming on the Pioneer 43TX too.


From what we have so far, it appears that the 3803 is made out of 'sterner stuff' as compared to the 43TX.


It also appears that the concensus is that the Rotel RSX 1055 (which will cost me US$525 more than the 3803) is a more musical AVR.


However, since I am going only for mid-range speakers i.e. Paradigm Studio 40 and Studio 20 with Studio center; I wonder if the extra cost for the Rotel will be justified. Would my choice of speakers make the combination with 3803 more practical? Or are these speakers a worthy match for the Rotel 1055 too? Your views will be much appreciated.


Perry
 

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I can only speak about the 3803, but it is a good match for the paradigm studio line. I've used 40s, 80s, and a studio center with it with great results.
 

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perry:


I don't know what you decided but I have Studio 40s, CC and ADPs with a 45 TX and I love the sound.


I don't know what sterner stuff means but I think these receivers are very comparable and both should be given serious time listening to and evaluating - IMHO you'd be happy with either.


But, if your interested in Pioneer, I would go with the 45 over the 43.


Mike


Mike
 

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In my area, the 3803 is priced the same as the 45tx. I know for me, there would be no question about the 45tx being a more robust receiver than the 43tx
 

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I thought the 45tx and the 43tx had the same amp sections. I was under the understanding the the only major difference is the manual vs auto setup.


I know the 47tx came out before the 45tx. When did the 43 come out in relation to the others?
 

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Hello Sheaton


Your right. Both the 43, and 45 are the exact same except for the MCACC which is manual on the 43 and auto on the 45. There is the difference of the 45 being multi-zone capable, and the 43 is not. Also the 45 has a rs-232 port for upgrading software and hooking up the receiver to a controller. So if these differences don't really appeal to you the 43 would be a good choice.



GOLDEN-EAGLE!
 
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