[bawuva]

I believe I read some posts a little while ago about buying Denon 3803 from unauthorized dealers and Denon not honoring the warranty. Well - I am looking to purchase the 3803 in next few weeks and am debating on whether the "risk" of purchasing online with an unauthorized dealer is worth it. If I buy at an authorized dealer the price will be $1199 vs. online unauthorized dealer price of low $800s.


So...


1) Do you think the almost $400 savings is worth the risk of no warranty for the next 2 years? My thought is that if something goes wrong in next 2 years, I still have about $400 to spend toward repairs.

2) Have any 3803 owners out there had to use their warranty?

3) Any good or bad experiences with Crazy Eddie or Etronics?


Thanks in advance for your replies.

 

[Mike Up]

I definitely would not buy from an unauthorized dealer. The cheapest I've seen unauthorized and 'no warranty' is about $800. Most reputable authorized dealers will sell the AVR-3803 for $950(EDIT from $900 for compromise). I paid $900 at my friendly, local, walk-in, authorized dealer which was a preorder before it was even available. Now that the demand is lower being it's aged a bit, paying $950(Edit from $900 for compromise) from an authorized dealer should not be hard.


If you don't have a reputable authorized dealer in your town, pick up the phone and call other areas. They'll most likely ship it as a convenience.


Paying $150(Edit from $100 for compromise) more is money well spent to make a more sensible purchase. No worry about warranty issues or dealer issues. An authorized dealer does have to keep up standards to be allowed to sell a higher end name. If they are treating you poorly, you can call Denon and state your complaint. With an unauthorized dealer, you have no where to turn other than the BBB. Also keep in mind that future upgrades are limited to units only purchased from authorized dealers. If one bought a AVR-5800 from an unauthorized dealer, they wouldn't be able to do the AVR-5803 upgrade that included hardware replaced along with newly added surround formats.


Myself, I would never buy from an unauthorized dealer.


Good luck in your decision.

 

[Gai Pan]

If the difference is just $100, then certainly go authorized. You won't have to wait for the delivery that way (I personally hate waiting). And of course you get the full protection. But when the difference becomes more like $400, it becomes tougher, for me anyway. I've never had any problems with audio components (knock wood), and as you say, that 400 could go toward repairs in the event of trouble. Plus, a lot of the online places let you pay a little more and buy protection from them. You usually have to pay shipping under those circumstances though.


So I think for me it'd depend on the price difference and how much confidence I had in a particular brand.

 

[DJ_JonnyV]

I just went through a similar process of deciding whether to buy online or not for my Elite 45tx. I think the best I could've gotten it online from etronics or somewhere decent was between 800-900. The 45 typically is retailed at $1200 at authorized dealers. I got my dealer to knock about 150 off for me, so I have the confidence of a full warrantly. AND, if you're like me, you'll probably have a few questions about setup and calibration and all that good stuff. You think you'll get those questions answered through an online retailer? Maybe, maybe not. With my dealer, I know that I can call them anytime for help. Just my 2 cents.

 

[WanMan]

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Up I definitely would not buy from an unauthorized dealer. The cheapest I've seen unauthorized and 'no warranty' is about $800. Most reputable authorized dealers will sell the AVR-3803 for $900. That's what I paid at Tweeter which was a preorder before it was even available. Now that the demand is lower being it's aged a bit, paying $900 from an authorized dealer should not be hard.

I would like to see some hard data where 'most reputable authorized dealers will sell the AVR-3803 for $900'. First, what does this imply in opposition to your statement, that most non-reputable dealers wouldn't? Also, what constitutes 'most'? I would like to think that there are quite a few Denon authorized dealers that have not made a presence on any forum, nor the bulk of the Denon buyers making there way to discussion boards.


If 50% of the AVS and HTF members bought the AVR-3803 that's only about 50,000-60,000 units. I'm willing to bet the average is a lot lower, like one in 10. So, although I do believe in statistical sampling and interpolation I just don't see the weight behind your conclusion of reputable dealers knocking 25% off the product--unless it was a dog. I would also offer that is reputable authorized dealers were willing and doing the 35% discounting then the non-reputable unauthorized dealers would be willing to go well beyond that, say, 40-50%. Unfortunately, we don't see this in great numbers, let alone substantial numbers.


Maybe we could post a poll on AVS and see how many of the AVR-3803 owners bought from reputable Denon authorized dealers and got 25% off. I'll leave up to you to define what you think 'reputable' is.

 

[Hoots]

The big chains in my neighborhood showed no interest in selling the 3803 below $1100. On-line pirces seem to be just under $900 after shipping.

 

[Mike Up]

Wanman(Brae),

Quote:

I would like to see some hard data where 'most reputable authorized dealers will sell the AVR-3803 for $900'.

And you'll keep wanting to see that!


I don't keep posts and web pages logged where I've seen numerous AVR-3803 owners state that they've bought their AVR-3803 authorized for $900. I have ran across many owners that were in this range and not many over $1000. There's authorized dealers everywhere. All you have to do is call them and state what their competitors are selling it at. If they are a decent dealer, they will check their competitors price then match it to keep your business. If they don't value your business enough to keep you with them, they don't have a very good reputation IMO.

Quote:

Maybe we could post a poll on AVS and see how many of the AVR-3803 owners bought from reputable Denon authorized dealers and got 25% off. I'll leave up to you to define what you think 'reputable' is.

I'll leave the work up to you since you're wanting the debate.


Also, just because someone doesn't put the time in getting the better price doesn't mean that they couldn't of had that better price from that or another 'reputable', authorized dealer. Reputable to me, means a company that has a 'reputation' of offering good deals along with good service. If a company can't offer a good deal, then they certainly wouldn't be reputable.


Nice to see your charm hasn't changed.

 

[Gai Pan]

Quote:

Originally posted by WanMan If 50% of the AVS and HTF members bought the AVR-3803 that's only about 50,000-60,000 units. I'm willing to bet the average is a lot lower, like one in 10.

The 3803's a great unit, but owned by one in 10 members of the forum? That'd be pretty high given the vast number of choices out there.


But I'm not trying to step in the middle of anything. You two have at it.

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

Mike Up:


I hate to be the one to rain on your parade, but I can tell you with absolute certainty that no authorized Denon distributors will sell you the AVR-3803 for anywhere near $900. The 3803 has a list price of $1199, and you'll be lucky to get one for less than $1100. Authorized Denon dealers who agree to sell their products for less than the MSRP will not remain authorized Denon dealers for long. Think what you want, but I know better since one of my tax clients happens to be a Denon distributor.


Regards.....Obi Wan Kenobi

 

[Gai Pan]

So let's get back to the original question then. Authorized or online?

 

[Jamey F]

Quote:

Originally posted by Obi Wan Kenobi Mike Up: I hate to be the one to rain on your parade, but I can tell you with absolute certainty that no authorized Denon distributors will sell you the AVR-3803 for anywhere near $900. The 3803 has a list price of $1199, and you'll be lucky to get one for less than $1100. Authorized Denon dealers who agree to sell their products for less than the MSRP will not remain authorized Denon dealers for long. Think what you want, but I know better since one of my tax clients happens to be a Denon distributor. Regards.....Obi Wan Kenobi

That's BS. There are many, many people on this forum and others like it that have gotten there 3803 from Authorized dealers for under $1000. I am one of them. I ahve also spoken with another authorized dealer that will sell for under $1000. Just because you have spoken with one person and you happen to do his taxes doesn't mean you have spoken with all the people here or all the authorized dealers.


Since I know of two authorized dealers that will sell the unit lower than $1000, it means you can't tell anyone with absolute certainty anything about Denon pricing based on what you've heard from your client.


____________________________________________


Bottom line....you're wrong. Luck isn't what getting it cheaper than $1100 is about. It's about not paying full MSRP. Leave the store and go somewhere else.


EDIT:....That's not to say that most are getting it for around $900. I do think that is unrealistic for authorized. I'd love to see a poll on over/under $1000 from an authorized, so I started one.

 

[bawuva]

Well I ended up buying from Goodguys.com - authorized online Denon retailer. Goodguys was offering 10% off all purchases above a certain amount w/no sales tax or shipping - Total ended up being $1080. Decided the extra money is worth it to me for the warranty, future upgrades, etc.

 

[Mike Up]

Jamey,


Thought I'd run into you over here. It seems people in this thread don't try to get discounts at authorized dealers. I guess many are speaking of the advertised or stated asking price, without wheeling and dealing. I know that there are quite a few of us at HTF that got ours for under $1000 from authorized dealers. Since Tweeter is a large retailer and I've seen several posters state that they also received there's for $900 or around that, it must be a myth.


Nice to see you. I finally decided to register here and see how green the grass is.


Have a good one.

 

[Gai Pan]

You guys know each other from somewhere else?


But anyhoo, I'm now really curious about what people think about buying Denon from etailers. My assumption is that alot of people do it, and it's well made stuff, right, so what's the skinny on buying online?

 

[Mike Up]

bawuva,


Any discount is better than none. With a product this expensive, paying more through an authorized channel is a smart decision IMO. Of course, others swear by on-line, unauthorized dealers. Myself, I like to keep my gambling at the boats.


Hope you enjoy your receiver. I don't think you'll be disappointed. I upgraded from my Yamaha RX-V2095 (which will be doing bedroom theater service soon) and was astonished by the performance of the AVR-3803. It's one hek of a musical receiver. The HT isn't bad either.


I've had mine since November and if you need any questions answered don't hesitate to ask.


Enjoy.

 

[Mike Up]

Gai Pan,


WanMan, Jamey, and I are also members of the Home Theater Forum. I've had interest in this forum sometime and decided it was time to register.


If someone has had good luck with an on-line, unauthorized dealer, then perhaps that's a good route to take for them. Since I don't have a business relationship with any, I wouldn't take a chance on such an expensive purchase. My feelings only. Many are more adventurous than I.



Have a good one.

 

[Mike Up]

Jamey,

Quote:

That's not to say that most are getting it for around $900. I do think that is unrealistic for authorized.

You're probably right. I'll amend my original dollar amount to $950.


Have a good one.

 

[Jamey F]

Quote:

I upgraded from my Yamaha RX-V2095 (which will be doing bedroom theater service soon) and was astonished by the performance of the AVR-3803.

That's a heck of a receiver for a bedroom!!!

 

[Mike Up]

Quote:

That's a heck of a receiver for a bedroom!!!

Yeh, I would had rather sold it and had someone else reap it's full benefits. However, A/V receivers are like computers in fading fast in the electronics world. It just doesn't seem like anyone wants to pay what this receiver is really worth. Ebay lately has them selling at $480. Subtract the cost of using Ebay's services and your at ~$450. IMO, this receiver is much better than any $450 receiver out there today.


Since I just can't give it away, I'll use it in the bedroom.


Have a good one.

 

[Jamey F]

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Up Jamey, Thought I'd run into you over here. It seems people in this thread don't try to get discounts at authorized dealers. I guess many are speaking of the advertised or stated asking price, without wheeling and dealing. I know that there are quite a few of us at HTF that got ours for under $1000 from authorized dealers. Since Tweeter is a large retailer and I've seen several posters state that they also received there's for $900 or around that, it must be a myth. Nice to see you. I finally decided to register here and see how green the grass is. Have a good one.

Yep, it's nice to see you also. I know many people couldn't care less about getting that extra $100-150 when going from $1100 down to $950-1000. My whole family doesn't care (I have swayed my dad a bit with coupons). I did/do care. I called the only 3-4 local dealers listed on Denon's web site and ALL the approved web vendors (a few multiple times). To top that, I also BVG'ed the #$^% out of it. I couldn't afford the 3803 without spending a few hours researching and calling many places. My wife says I like to search for the deal more than I like to buy what it is I'm looking. I'd have to agree(but I'll deny it if asked ).


If you want a deal, it may take some work. To those that don't want to spend their time beating up on dealers, I can see why you wouldn't. Just don't think your vendor (certainly not ours) will only sell for retail or within a few pennies of it. I'm glad you pad their profits. That means they don't have to make all their money from me.


Back to the original intent of the poster:


Buy authorized. Spend a bit of work hunting a deal and you'll be within $100-150 of the low ball internet dealers. Try tweeter, 6ave, and good guys. Good guys will probably be the highest. They were the hardest to get them to come off any besides their flat 10% discount. I think they all offer either very low or free shipping. Couple that with no sales tax, and the difference could be even less. When I did my BVG, the best price was $171 cheaper, but I was going to get hit with an extra $60 in shipping making the difference only about $100 in net cost even if I couldn't BVG.