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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have had my 3805 for less than a week, and after going through the horrible Denon manual (why can't those Japanese hire an American who knows english to write their manuals?), I am unclear about whether my receiver is in DD ES mode or not.


When playing THX Surround ES titles, when on the DVD menus, the receiver display shows Dolby Digital ES. When actually in the movie, it shows Dolby D + PLiix C.


Why did it switch from DD ES?


Is there a good source that explains the surround modes? (What is PLiix..ProLogic IIx? Sounds inferior to DD 5.1)...


BTW, I do have 6.1 speakers (Surround L/R plus 2 Surround Back).


I do like the receiver, though. Especially, the AutoSetup function!


Thanks!


Darryl.
 

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Darryl,
Quote:
I am unclear about whether my receiver is in DD ES mode or not.
First let's get the nomenclature correct: there is no "DD ES" mode. There's DD EX, DTS ES and THX Surround EX decoding (can be used with DD EX and DTS ES titles).
Quote:
When playing THX Surround ES titles, when on the DVD menus, the receiver display shows Dolby Digital ES. When actually in the movie, it shows Dolby D + PLiix C. Why did it switch from DD ES?
There are no "THX Surround ES titles". THX Surround EX is the name of a decoder, which is used to extract the surround-back channel from EX and ES encoded movies. There could be a couple of reasons why your receiver switches surround modes when you go from the menu to the actual movie: either a flag in the DVD is triggering a different surround mode and/or your receiver's Auto Surround Mode is switching to the last mode you used.
Quote:
What is PLiix..ProLogic IIx? Sounds inferior to DD 5.1
You are correct: PLIIx is Pro Logic IIx. It is Dolby's latest surround processing technology, which converts 2-channel and 5.1-channel material into 7 independent channels. EX/ES decoding is intended to be used with EX/ES encoded material and results in 3 surround channels (surround-left, surround-right, surround-back). PLIIx can be used with all sources and results in 4 surround channels (stereo sides and stereo rears). Personally, I would use PLIIx with all 5.1 sources (EX/ES encoded or not) as well as all 2-channel sources (movies and music, especially you like music in surround).
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BTW, I do have 6.1 speakers (Surround L/R plus 2 Surround Back).
Sounds like you have a 7.1-speaker set-up rather than 6.1. If so, you should place your side speakers directly to the sides of the listening area (this will give you good rear vs side separation in the surround field). Also, the rear speakers should be well separated behind you in order to appreciate the stereo-rear effect of PLIIx.


Best,

Sanjay
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Sorry about mixing up the ES/EX. I was clear that ES is DTS and EX is DD and THX, though.


So, when using the 3805, and playing THX EX material, should the Denon be switching to "Dolby D + PLIIx C" or should it be staying in "Dolby Digital EX" mode?


Since it is switching to PLIIx C mode, how do I force it to DD EX, since DD EX mode sounds like the "real McCoy" whereas PLIIx sounds like a converter/simulation (since its used with 2.1 and 5.1 to make 7.1)?


Also, I do have the surrounds directly (but just slightly back) to the side of the listener position. I'm using Mirage Omnisats which are omnidirectional surrounds, so placement isn't as critical (so i'm told).


In any case, they sound wonderful and my surround soundfield is much improved since adding those to the existing surrounds in the rear.


Thanks for the insight and information regarding the surround modes!


Darryl.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I used the microphone that came with a friends Onkyo reciever. Same purpose, and it seems to have done a pretty good job. At least the Delay timings (distance to speakers) was fairly accurate!


I understand, though, that the 2805 comes with the mic, just the 3805 doesn't.


Maybe you could "borrow" one from a local Denon dealer?
 

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Darryl,
Quote:
Originally posted by dmylrea
So, when using the 3805, and playing THX EX material, should the Denon be switching to "Dolby D + PLIIx C" or should it be staying in "Dolby Digital EX" mode?
I think if the DD EX material is properly flagged (doesn't happen too often), then it should automatically switch over to DD EX decoding. If the flag is missing (even if it is EX encoded), then it will switch to PLIIx mode. BTW, as mentioned before, there is no such thing as "THX EX material".
Quote:
Since it is switching to PLIIx C mode, how do I force it to DD EX
I'm not too familiar with the 3805, but how do you select any mode on your receiver? I guess you would play a DD 5.1 source and hit the 'Surround' button on your remote; it should scroll you through the various DD modes.
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DD EX mode sounds like the "real McCoy" whereas PLIIx sounds like a converter/simulation (since its used with 2.1 and 5.1 to make 7.1)?
DD EX (which uses 5.1 to make 6.1) isn't any more the "real McCoy" than PLIIx. The main difference is that DD EX generates a mono surround-back channel and PLIIx generates stereo surround-back channels. If you prefer mono sound behind you instead of stereo, then stick to EX decoding and your two rear speakers will be run as dual-mono instead of true stereo. (I don't understand why you would want to do that, but to each his own.)


Good Luck,

Sanjay
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by sdurani
BTW, as mentioned before, there is no such thing as "THX EX material".
Of course, I mean THX Surround EX. That does exist, doesn't it? I was just saving some typing by leaving out the 'Surround'.


I think I am beginning to understand. I didn't mean for you to completely educate me on surround standards, but I DO appreciate you explaining this to me. Having lived with plain ol' DD 5.1, these new flavors can be difficult to understand at first.


I now am very clear that PLIIx is better than DD EX in my case of having dual surround-back speakers.


So, if I am understanding correctly, there really isn't any true 7.1 encoded material out there, everything is really DD 5.1, and the surround-back channel(s) are generated from the 5.1 information? I've read even DTS ES is only 6.1.


Thanks again, Sanjay, your information has made things much clearer.


Darryl.
 

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Darryl,
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THX Surround EX. That does exist, doesn't it?
It doesn't exist as source material; i.e., there's no such thing as THX Surround EX encoded material. THX Surround EX is a decoder only, and can be used to decode the surround-back channel from DD EX and DTS ES soundtracks. This is different from the DD EX and DTS ES modes, which only work with Dolby Digital or DTS material (respectively). The other difference between THX Surround EX decoding and straight DD EX decoding is that the former adds THX enhancements (Re-EQ, Timber Matching, Adaptive Decorrelation) while the latter does not.
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I now am very clear that PLIIx is better than DD EX in my case of having dual surround-back speakers.
Right. The difference between EX decoding and PLIIx processing is a mono surround-back channel vs stereo surround-back channels. Also, unlike EX decoding, PLIIx processing was designed to work well with 5.1 sources that aren't EX/ES encoded.
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So, if I am understanding correctly, there really isn't any true 7.1 encoded material out there, everything is really DD 5.1, and the surround-back channel(s) are generated from the 5.1 information? I've read even DTS ES is only 6.1.
Correct: there isn't any discrete 7.1-channel material yet. Despite that, PLIIx can do a terrific job of steering 2 surround channels over 4 surround speakers, which will allow you to take full advantage of a 7-speaker set-up by having unique content in each speaker.


Best,

Sanjay
 

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Well, There is 7.1 discrete audio out there, just not at the consumer level...I think. Sony's SDDS that is used in theaters is 8 discrete channels. (i believe 7 and the sub)


I can't believe the 3805 doesn't come with the Mic, my 2105 comes with the mic for autosetup.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by bapenguin
Well, There is 7.1 discrete audio out there, just not at the consumer level...I think.
Well, for that matter there are plenty of special venue theatres (IMAX, Showscan, etc) that use more than 7 discrete channels. But what does that have to do with the DD modes on the 3805?
Quote:
Sony's SDDS that is used in theaters is 8 discrete channels. (i believe 7 and the sub)
Yes, SDDS is 5 screen channels and 2 surround channels, plus sub.


Best,

Sanjay
 
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