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Denon 3910 DVI vs Component PQ

1932 Views 41 Replies 14 Participants Last post by mtrx, Oct 28, 2004

mtrx

Discussion Starter · Oct 26, 2004

I have been doing some comparison between DVI and Component with my Denon 3910 connecting to Sony VPL-HS20 projector.

Seems like when connected through DVI PQ is smother and colors are little sharper however if connected through Component PQ is sharper, and black level seems to be a little better than DVI. I have a black lever set to enhanced mode on my 3910.

If would be interesting to hear if anyone here has done the similar comparison and what was the result.

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1 - 20 of 42 Posts

JasonColeman

· #2 · Oct 26, 2004

I've also been experimenting with my 3910 and HS10 and so far I agree with your observations. I recently picked up a 10m DVI cable, so this is my first time using DVI, but the difference between component and DVI doesn't floor me at all. I haven't spent enough time tweaking and tuning yet, so maybe that'll make a more significant difference. However, the component performance is absolutely amazing. The PQ blows my Pioneer Elite 45a out of the water (which I used more as an audio/hi-rez player anyways). I'll chime back in once I spend some more time adjusting the settings.

Jason

RockStrongo

· #3 · Oct 26, 2004

I see the same thing on the 1910. I made a similar thread about it too.

ac388

· #4 · Oct 26, 2004

I am not too sure if I am the one confused or some of you folks. I thought the major thing on using DVI or HDMI on a 1910or 3910 is the upconversion to 720P from 480P, so people can get point to point mapping when they have a projector or Plasma or TV that have a 1280x720 resolution. And not which format is better, is it right ???

gtoaster

· #5 · Oct 26, 2004

It's a lot more complicated than that. The overall quality of the electronics and signal paths will play a big part. For example the scaler in the TV may be better than the scaler in the DVD player, so having the DVD player output 480p and then having the TV do the scaling may produce a better image than if the DVD player did the scaling. There are TV's (GWIII is one) where the DVI signal is actually converted to analog and then back to digital which reduces the benefit of DVI. Also many TV's are not native 720p, which means your double scaling the image (the DVD player scales to 720p and then the TV scales to 768p or whatever the native resolution is) which is not good. On many lower end DVD players the DVI connections have lots of issues (using computer palette, white or black crush, etc.). The signal path electronics may not be as high quality in the DVD player for the DVI connection as it is for the component signal path. The quality of your component cables may be of higher quality than your DVI cable. So it's not a simple answer. The only way to truly know what is best for your system is to do A/B comparisons with test patterns to see what works best for your particular setup.

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Dave Vaughn

· #6 · Oct 26, 2004

I just recalibrated with colorfacts on a different color temperature using the component out at 480P to my Hitachi 57SWX20B and I will let you know the results after watching a movie tonight. Over DVI, some things have looked good, and others just horrible. I think the DVI makes bad transfers look worse and good transfers look better (just a guess).

Dave

mtrx

Discussion Starter · #7 · Oct 26, 2004

ac388, you are aright, the only way you can get 1080i is if you are using DVI, but if you are using component you will get 720i (more like a progressive picture).

I have also noticed that some dvds play better on DVI (usually new once) but some older once seem to have a better PQ through component.

So what i think is the best way to set i up is having your DVI and Component connected, this way you will have more options.

Ralph Potts

· #8 · Oct 26, 2004

Quote:

Originally posted by mtrx
ac388, you are aright, the only way you can get 1080i is if you are using DVI, but if you are using component you will get 720i (more like a progressive picture).

I have also noticed that some dvds play better on DVI (usually new once) but some older once seem to have a better PQ through component.

So what i think is the best way to set i up is having your DVI and Component connected, this way you will have more options.

Greetings,

mtrx, there is no 720i resolution. It will be either 720p, 480p, or 1080i, 480i. Remember that on the 3910 is you connect the DVI out it turns off the component outs. You would need to disconnect the DVI cable in each time you wanted to view component.

Dave, I could not agree more with your observations regarding quality and poor video transfers via DVI.

Regards,

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mtrx

Discussion Starter · #9 · Oct 26, 2004

Ralph, on my 3910 i can still have component out when my dvi cable is plugged in as long as I turn of DVI & HDMI outputs off. Try this it will work for you. The only hassle is that you have to turn it on and off every time you wanna use component but you can still have both cables plugged in to your 3910.

Ralph Potts

· #10 · Oct 26, 2004

Greetings,

Whoops, your right. I was thinking of my HD cable box which actually requires disconnection of the cable.

Regards,

mtrx

Discussion Starter · #11 · Oct 26, 2004

Yep, my Pioneer HD box does the same thing... I can't even use DVI on it because I guess it wasn't supported initially and its not calibrated properly. Should wait until TimeWarner comes out with a new box or with an update for DVI.

Ralph, who is your cable provider? Do you notice a big difference between DVI and Component? I guess on HD cable boxes you can still get 1080i through component.

Tinker

· #12 · Oct 26, 2004

Quote:

Originally posted by mtrx
Yep, my Pioneer HD box does the same thing... I can't even use DVI on it because I guess it wasn't supported initially and its not calibrated properly. Should wait until TimeWarner comes out with a new box or with an update for DVI.

Ralph, who is your cable provider? Do you notice a big difference between DVI and Component? I guess on HD cable boxes you can still get 1080i through component.

I am using a SA 8000HD PVR and it outputs 480i/480p/720p/1080i via component. But no DVI support here (Rogers in Canada) yet from SA over cable.

Dave Vaughn

· #13 · Oct 26, 2004

Ralph,

I was watching Sex in the City Season 5 and it is almost unwatchable over DVI the quality is so bad. I am going to watch an episode tonight to see if it looks better over component.

Dave

mtrx

Discussion Starter · #14 · Oct 26, 2004

Dave,

What kind of box do you have? Looks like many cable providers do not support DVI yet and therefore HD cablebox makers did not calibrate DVI properly. I have the same problem with my DVI output on my Pioneer HD box.

Dave Vaughn

· #15 · Oct 26, 2004

I don't have a cable box. I just have expanded basic, not digital. I have a LG 3410A STB for OTA HD that alsow picks up about 8 HD channels sent out by my cable company for free!

Dave

Ursa

· #16 · Oct 27, 2004

Sony HS10/HS20 are 1366x768 (1368x768? I forget.) There is no DVD player out there that will scale to this native resolution (did I mention that the panel operates at 56Hz, too?). Your options are not good with the Sony projector, beyond changing to an HTPC, and they are based on what the DVD player's electronics are like:

1) If the Sony's scaler and deinterlacer are better than the DVD player's, then feed the Sony 480i via DVI (if possible)

2) If the Sony's deinterlacer is worse than your DVD Player's deinterlacer, then feed the Sony 480p

3) You will probably not like the result of feeding the Sony either 1080i or 720p, unless the transfer is one of those where dual scaling helps.

I don't remember whether the Sony's internal electronics also do a D->A->D conversion, but that would explain similarities in image from component. HTH.

Later,

Bill

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umr

· #17 · Oct 27, 2004

Quote:

Originally posted by Ursa
...I don't remember whether the Sony's internal electronics also do a D->A->D conversion, but that would explain similarities in image from component. HTH.

Later,

Bill

I believe these projectors keep the signal digital until it hits the LCD panels.

mtrx

Discussion Starter · #18 · Oct 27, 2004

If you feeding projector through DVI it won't do D-A-D.

Bill, i didn't not get your point, what is the point of getting the high end dvd player that gives your 1080i if you are setting it to 480i? How would you take an advantage of this player then?

scottyb

· #19 · Oct 27, 2004

Talk about a hi-jacked thread. Any other comments on the original post?

Scott

Ursa

· #20 · Oct 27, 2004

Quote:

Originally posted by mtrx
If you feeding projector through DVI it won't do D-A-D.

Bill, i didn't not get your point, what is the point of getting the high end dvd player that gives your 1080i if you are setting it to 480i? How would you take an advantage of this player then?

mtrx - for some projectors this was not actually true (it was presumably cheaper/easier to do a D/A conversion, synchronize the analog and "digital" signal chains, and then reconvert, rather than have independent signal paths). The point of getting a high-end DVD player is that it has a better MPEG decoder, better color conversion circuitry, easier navigation, support for high-end media (e.g. DVD-A & SACD), better analog audio output, etc.

Taking a 480i source (e.g. a DVD), scaling it up to 1080i, and then re-scaling it and deinterlacing it to 720p (or 768p) is a lot of processing. This is above and beyond the A/D and D/A conversions. If you had an ordinary 720p or 1080i display, then go with the best scaler and deinterlacer in your signal chain (caveat: some source material, especially badly mastered DVDs with a lot of EE, can look better being scaled multiple times - an exception to every rule). However, since you do not, then you will want to play with the scalers in your signal chain, because unless you output a 480i signal out of your 3910, you will be scaling twice no matter what resolution you choose (very few DVD players can actually do 1:1 with the Sony HS-10/20).

To your original point, is the black enhancement how the 3910 changes black level from video to PC levels? If so, the Denon may treat the outputs differently (it could also be tweaking the gamma). Try playing with that switch on and off with each input to test your source material. That may explain the differential between the inputs.

Later,

Bill

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