[Paul Klassen]

Just wondering if this combo has given anyone any macro blocking problems.


Thanks


Paul

 

[ac388]

I did have a 2910/AE500 combo with no MB, so I guess you should not have problem with your combo too. However, if you have not purchased the 3910 yet, give Marantz 7600 a try, n you will be amazed.

 

[ssabripo]

a few 3910 owners with teh Panny 700 and not MB reported on the 3910 owner's thread.....but panasonic displays in general are more prown to show MB with Faroudja based players, so you really have to do your research. Seems like the AE700 is safe....

ac388, I'm sorry you had a bad experience with the 2910, but I still do not understand why continuously lump the 3910 with it...they are different players! I had the 2910, was not very impressed, and decided to change...after much auditioning I ended up in a shootout with the 59avi/3910 with the 3910 the clear winner for me. They have different mpeg decoders (ess vs ess vibrato II), different filters, etc...they share teh same de-interlacer chipset (FLI2300) and that's it. I have seen the marantz 7600 AND 9500 flagship...excellent machines (specially the 9500), but cannot touch the 3910 in PQ.....the closest I've seen is the Sp1000 onkyo. If you haven't tried the 3910, you should....it may change your mind on how you feel between the 3910 and 2910.... Just a suggestion

 

[ac388]

I did have both 2910/3910 side by side thru DVI into my Panny projector before my Denon purchase, the 3910 maybe 5% better in picture quality, that's why I decided to go with cheaper 2910 at that time.


Before I purchased the Marantz 7600, I did borrow a 3910, 59(from my friend) n 7600(from a store) to do a side by side test again. When using component output, 59 is the cleanest n sharpest of them all. When using HDMI out, 59 n 7600 are quite similar, n they beat 3910 by a head's length. As we still saw some grain n picture noise from the 3910, but at a lesser degree than 2910.


FYI, we have total 5 person in my apartment on the last test, which included the owners of those 3910 n 59, plus 2 more AV friends( I think one guy own a lower end Pioneer n the other guy is using a Philips). The HDMI difference between Pio/Marnatz versus Denon, was agreed by all 5 person, including the 3910 owner , who left my place shaking his head n thinking about an upgrade to a Marantz 9500.


Loan a Marantz 9500 or 7600 n plug it in your house to see the difference n not at a shop or somebody else place. Just a suggestion.

 

[ssabripo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac388 I did have both 2910/3910 side by side thru DVI into my Panny projector before my Denon purchase, the 3910 maybe 5% better in picture quality, that's why I decided to go with cheaper 2910 at that time. Before I purchased the Marantz 7600, I did borrow a 3910, 59(from my friend) n 7600(from a store) to do a side by side test again. When using component output, 59 is the cleanest n sharpest of them all. When using HDMI out, 59 n 7600 are quite similar, n they beat 3910 by a head's length. As we still saw some grain n picture noise from the 3910, but at a lesser degree than 2910. FYI, we have total 5 person in my apartment on the last test, which included the owners of those 3910 n 59, plus 2 more AV friends( I think one guy own a lower end Pioneer n the other guy is using a Philips). The HDMI difference between Pio/Marnatz versus Denon, was agreed by all 5 person, including the 3910 owner , who left my place shaking his head n thinking about an upgrade to a Marantz 9500. Loan a Marantz 9500 or 7600 n plug it in your house to see the difference n not at a shop or somebody else place. Just a suggestion.

cool....I guess this just adds to the theory that different displays and setups will look different with different players. The 2910 vs 3910 when I tried it was 10% out of box, and 20% better once tweaked. Side by side the 3910 had better pic than the 59avi in the store and in my house, and obvioulsy the sound was a huge improvement. The 9500 mike and I saw at the store looked pretty good, but the SP1000 was better in PQ, and better in Audio....the 7600 looked pretty bad in the store hooked up to a Pioneer Elite Plasma.


But good job audiotioning them....that's the only way to do this nowdays, with so many choices out there in all aspects of A/V....it took me 2 months to audition almost 8 speakers before I settled on the Swan's.


cheers...

 

[ac388]

Yes, I did not do any audio comparsion among the players, because I figure it will be the same when I use the digital out to my Sony receiver.


Yes, I agree with you that one should only test out the equipment at their own home before purchase, because any good unit can look real bad in store or somebody else system.


However, there is one thing that still bugs me. Why do someone make a purchase if they have to take a risk on MB, without knowing which display to avoid ?

 

[ssabripo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac388 However, there is one thing that still bugs me. Why do someone make a purchase if they have to take a risk on MB, without knowing which display to avoid ?

oh....the 64K question


well, the faroudja chipset provides one of the best de-interlacing solutions available today. When properly calibrated, the picture is truly astonishing. The lack of jaggies, the details, the fluidity and natural reproduction, and the incredible video based PQ, is something many will bet on getting while knowing that there is a chance of MB.


I do agree, as do most here, that this problem is something Faroudja should be addressing asap. I personally have nearly no MB on the Sony GWIV and on the Pio Plasma Elite....so I'm very happy. I would probably be sitting on a SP1000 if I did.

 

[Paul Klassen]

Thanks for the info guys. However upon looking at the cut sheets on the 2910 and the 3910, it appears to me that the video section on these players are identical. The only difference being in the audio section, denon link etc. So unless this is a mis-print from Denon on their cut sheets, there should be absolutely No Difference between them for watching a DVD movie if both calibrated the same.


Has anyone actually seen these 2 side by side for a video comparison, and were they each calibrated the same or optomized?


I am interested on some feedback on this one.


Paul

 

[ac388]

Hi Paul,


There should be a slight picture difference on component out between the two, since the 3910 is using a 14bit video processor while 2910 is 12bit. However, on HDMI/DVI out, it should be identical. That's why when somebody said there was a 20% difference between the 2 units, I am scratching my head


Again, the best way to find out is to have both units at your home. Then, tell us is it 0 or 5 or 20% difference. You can read the Benchmark review but don't let it affect your purchase, as I personally think it is quite misleading.

 

[ssabripo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac388 Hi Paul, There should be a slight picture difference on component out between the two, since the 3910 is using a 14bit video processor while 2910 is 12bit. However, on HDMI/DVI out, it should be identical. That's why when somebody said there was a 20% difference between the 2 units, I am scratching my head Again, the best way to find out is to have both units at your home. Then, tell us is it 0 or 5 or 20% difference. You can read the Benchmark review but don't let it affect your purchase, as I personally think it is quite misleading.

Negative Ac388!! That's Incorrect information!


The 3910 uses the ESS vibrato II mpeg decoder, the 2910 uses the Vibrato I.

The 3910 uses a completely different filtering in the digital(and analog) domain than the 2910.


These differences make up that difference in PQ. Having the same de-interlacer chipset does NOT make them equal.

 

[ac388]

I have to apologise for the wrong info on the video processor. Since both units are using a 12bit ones, no wonder their picture quality are almost identical.


Where do one get the info of Vibrato I n II , n what is their difference ? If your guess is correct, how do you know II is better than I ?


Also, in the Benchmark, it clearly stated that the 3910 is only better than 2910 in the area of POWER SUPPLY, SHIELDING N AUDIO PERFORMANCE.


As for the filtering on the digital domain, which one did 3910 use n which one did 2910 use.

 

[suffolk112000]

Well, I own the Denon 2910 with the AE-700.

When I was DVD player shopping, I was told three different times that the only real difference between the 2910 and 3910 was in audio. I was told the 3910 was about 20% better in sound. They all said their was a very slight difference in picture quality, but not enough to notice and certainly not enough to warrant the big increase in price between the two models. And this was coming from the people who stood to make more money off me if I purchased the more expensive 3910.

My reasoning for purchasing the 2910 and not the 3910 was the fact that my use would be almost 100% home theater, not 2 channel. Since everyone said there was virtually no difference between the two units picture wise, I figured why spend the extra $$ with Blue Ray and HD-DVD coming out in the near future.

Another issue is, come on guys... I, we own AE-700's. While it is a nice pj for the $$, it clearly is not perfect either. If I were spending $10K for a projector, than I would certainly splurge for the higher end DVD player.

It just didn't make sense to me to spend nearly half of what I spent on my AE-700 for a 3910.


Craig


Edit: one massive spelling error.

 

[ssabripo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac388 I have to apologise for the wrong info on the video processor. Since both units are using a 12bit ones, no wonder their picture quality are almost identical. Where do one get the info of Vibrato I n II , n what is their difference ? If your guess is correct, how do you know II is better than I ? Also, in the Benchmark, it clearly stated that the 3910 is only better than 2910 in the area of POWER SUPPLY, SHIELDING N AUDIO PERFORMANCE. As for the filtering on the digital domain, which one did 3910 use n which one did 2910 use.

www.usa.denon.com has all the details on what the 2910 and 3910 contain:
http://www.usa.denon.com/catalog/products.asp?l=1&c=4


as you can see in the secrets' benchmark as well, the 3910 has the vibrato ii, while 2910 has the vibrato:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-b...910%20DVI/HDMI
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=all#DenonDVD-2910%20(HDMI/DVI)


notice as well where kris mentions the superior filters on the 3910, which also contributed to the much less MB prone aspect of the 3910 compared to 5900 and 2910.


again ac388, I'm not here to tell you that your findings are wrong or dispute your experience....I think you did the right thing in auditioning them. I myself originally purchased the 2910, and after the dissappointment, I went in search of a replacement (with no intention of wanting a Denon again).....but the 3910 actually surprised me with the improvement in PQ.


just explaining that there is a difference in PQ between the 2910 and 3910

 

[ac388]

Totally agree with what Craig said.

 

[Paul Klassen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by suffolk112000 Well, I own the Denon 2910 with the AE-700. When I was DVD player shopping, I was told three different times that the only real difference between the 2910 and 3910 was in audio. I was told the 3910 was about 20% better in sound. They all said their was a very slight difference in picture quality, but not enough to notice and certainly not enough to warrant the big increase in price between the two models. And this was coming from the people who stood to make more money off me if I purchased the more expensive 3910. My reasoning for purchasing the 2910 and not the 3910 was the fact that my use would be almost 100% home theater, not 2 channel. Since everyone said there was virtually no difference between the two units picture wise, I figured why spend the extra $$ with Blue Ray and HD-DVD coming out in the near future. Another issue is, come on guys... I, we own AE-700's. While it is a nice pj for the $$, it clearly is not perfect either. If I were spending $10K for a projector, than I would certainly splurge for the higher end DVD player. It just didn't make sense to me to spend nearly half of what I spent on my AE-700 for a 3910. Craig Edit: one massive spelling error.

So Craig, are you happy with the PQ that you get with the 2910 and the 700, any MB? And given the limitations of the projector as you say, would you agree that going with a 3910 over the 2910 for DVD viewing would be a waste of $$$.


Thanks


Paul

 

[bucky63]

Just to throw my 2 cents in...


I went from a 2200 to a 2910 and now to a 3910 feeding my AE500 and I believe the 3910's picture is greatly improved over the 2910's. I was shocked because I have read all the same stuff out there that the 2910 and the 3910 was supposed to have the same picture quality but is seemed to be night and day to me. The 3910's picture was less grainy and more glass window like. Now with the 3910, I'm not thinking as much about the picture quality and more on the movie.


I have not seen any MB with either the 2910 or the 3910 using the AE500 projector.

 

[ssabripo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucky63 Just to throw my 2 cents in... I went from a 2200 to a 2910 and now to a 3910 feeding my AE500 and I believe the 3910's picture is greatly improved over the 2910's. I was shocked because I have read all the same stuff out there that the 2910 and the 3910 was supposed to have the same picture quality but is seemed to be night and day to me. The 3910's picture was less grainy and more glass window like. Now with the 3910, I'm not thinking as much about the picture quality and more on the movie. I have not seen any MB with either the 2910 or the 3910 using the AE500 projector.

Thanks Bucky.....this is exactly why I keep saying that people should read reviews and audition things, rather than go by what is on paper or some salesperson may say.... Just like you, I have extensive hands on experience on the diff between the 2...the 3910 is the superior PQ.


I know some people just look at the secret's scores and not read the review to really get the jist of the info, but they should. Is not just the score, but what the pros and cons, strenghts and weaknesses, failed tests and bordeline tests, etc.

 

[ac388]

Between the 2910 n 3910, it does not matter the difference is 0 or 5 or 20 or even 50%, you have no reason not to try out the new 7600, when you are considering to purchase a player at that price range. Since this Marantz unit is really a beauty, especially on HDMI out, when compare to the Denon.

 

[suffolk112000]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Klassen So Craig, are you happy with the PQ that you get with the 2910 and the 700, any MB? And given the limitations of the projector as you say, would you agree that going with a 3910 over the 2910 for DVD viewing would be a waste of $$$. Thanks Paul

I am happy with the pic quality considering what time I have had the chance to play with my 2910. My theater is under construction so I have not had the time to play with my combo for hours on end.

From what I was told on three different occasions, there was no, or very little difference in PQ quality between the two. It sure seemed funny that all three stories corroborated.

When I bought my 2910, the 3910 was almost double the $$.


I will say that if you are going to listen to a lot of 2 channel or are just plain going to listen to music more than HT, than perhaps the 3910 is worth it.

I am using mine for 95% HT. The 3910 was almost half the price as my AE-700 so no, I would tell someone to spend on a better pj than a better DVD player if they were in our shoes, especially with Blue Ray and HD-DVD on the horizon.


Craig

 

[ssabripo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac388 Between the 2910 n 3910, it does not matter the difference is 0 or 5 or 20 or even 50%, you have no reason not to try out the new 7600, when you are considering to purchase a player at that price range. Since this Marantz unit is really a beauty, especially on HDMI out, when compare to the Denon.

I have seen both the 7600 and 9500.....see my third post above. yes, they are very good looking machines, specially the 9500...I really liked the 9500's finish and build, and the audio is excellent (even better than the 3910, not quite as good as the SP1000). In the area of video, the 7600 is nowhere near the 3910, but it looks very good. The 9500 has much better PQ than the 7600 from what I saw, but still not as detailed as the 3910 although it was VERY VERY good!


you cannot go wrong with the marantz new units.....they are excellent, I agree. The 9600 coming out should be a doozy with the 1080p capability.


congrats on your 7600, and post some pics soon....