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DENON 5800 MUST READ

3650 Views 53 Replies 27 Participants Last post by  Stephen P
I'm telling you, I have 1 and what the article below states is no lie. This is the most profounding, most amazing, most powerful (170 watts per channel and SEVEN DANG CHANNELS) that you will ever buy. When you listen to the DTS-ES DVDs you will be Floored. the haunting, gladiator, AMAZING. There is NOTHING like this receiver. As the article below states, the Onkyo is just a toy compared to this receiver.
http://www.dvd.com/stories/learn/why_dvd/story_2179.asp
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Go check out the B&K AVR-307 and you will once again be "stunned."


Everything the Denon does, the B&K does better!


Dan


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Dan Henderson
[email protected]
Please check the web address, it's a dead link.


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:)
That is RIDICULOUS. The B&K DOESN'T do DTS-ES Discrete, and on top of that the dang receiver only pumps out 150 watts per channel @ 8 ohms, the Denon puts out [email protected] Your B&K Receiver compares to the Onkyo 989 NOT the denon. It's 20 watts less powerful per channel, thats significant if you have a big room. Time to go back and check the stats on your B&K.
oh and the remote SUCKS! All the new receivers have touchpoint screen that look like the Pronto, you're B&K doesn't so that's a $500-$1000 MINUS.
The Denon RULES ALL....even Yamaha!!


Sound, power, DTS-ES, and a wide variety of inputs...


Denon does it better.


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"Success is the greatest revenge."
amen, from a strictly technical standpoint, you are 100% accurate. There is no consumer AV receiver in this price range that delivers that power (170 watts , 7 channels, 8 ohms) AND EVERY standard available (including DTS-ES Discrete, which is amazing). And the price is some $1500 less than the Marantz SR-14 EX and comparable to the MUCH Worse Onkyo 939.
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I am a Yamaha owner about to make the switch. I haven't seen the new Marantz. A buddy of mine has the SR-18 in champagne and it is a nice piece of work. I don't see how the guys over at Marantz (Philips) could up anything on the new model except the power and compete with the 5800.

Like I stated before, DENON RULES!!!


Then, there's separates.


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"Success is the greatest revenge."
I made the mistake of selling my 5700 to get some extra money for my 5800 upgrade, which will go in my dedicated HT room. In the meantime I purchased a lower end amp to replace the 5700 in my living room. I bought a Yamaha DSPA5. What a mistake. I'm still having nightmares. This thing sounds like an empty drum. HORRIBLE.........I powered up my 5800 briefly to watch Gladiator again. Very simply...DENON IS KING

Eric
dpak2000,
Quote:
There is no consumer AV receiver in this price range that delivers that power (170 watts , 7 channels, 8 ohms)
See: Review of AVR-5800 in Dec Sound and Vision mag
Quote:
The 5800 didn't come close to meeting its specification of 170 watts x 7 into 8 ohms from 20 to 20k w/0.05% THD in S&V's tests. With 5 chans driven at 1kHz into 8 ohms, its output was 138 wpc (21.5 dBW), just slightly more than the Onkyo 989's 126 wpc (21 dBW)
Quote:
138 with 5 channels driven or... what... 105 with all seven driven?
Paul
Quote:
Originally posted by dpak2000:
That is RIDICULOUS. The B&K DOESN'T do DTS-ES Discrete, and on top of that the dang receiver only pumps out 150 watts per channel @ 8 ohms, the Denon puts out [email protected] Your B&K Receiver compares to the Onkyo 989 NOT the denon. It's 20 watts less powerful per channel, thats significant if you have a big room. Time to go back and check the stats on your B&K.
A 170 watt amplifier has 13 percent more power than a 150 watt amplifier. You would need a 300 watt amplifeir (double the power) to produce 3 dbs SPL more of output (same speaker in the same room). Based on this, 170 watt amplifier will only produce .39 more db SPL. This is a negligible difference, and cannot be a guiding factor. Items like processing capability, extent of video switching, the sound quality of the amplifiers, the look, the usability (remote), or format support are more noticeable when comparing product with such similiar power rating. If one amplifier could not perform into a low impedance load, or the power rating was based on a 1K test tone vs. a 20-20k than these may be reasons one amplifier performs better than another.




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Don O

If it isn't in the D-ILA FAQ let me know
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Well, that same article review you pasted also says its a "must own" and that it's won awards. As far as comparisons with the Onkyo, I've seen two head to head articles comparing the two, and they both say there is no question that the onkyo is inferior to the Denon. I've also heard both in my home theater, and I can make that assertion myself.
dpack2000


Before you put the 5800 next to the Holy Grail let me ask you a question.


have you even ever heard the AVR-307 next to the AVR-5800? Have you spent time A/Bing them in a well done system on EXACTLY the same test gear? I have. In fact, I have done this in more than one system.


Forget the numbers my friend. The B&K has a wider soundstage, is MUCH more detailed and offers components (internal) that are easily double the quality of the Denon. Did you know the denon will not pass a 1080i picture through the comp. video section? Did you know that the 170x7 amplifier has almost half the CURRENT output of the B&K? Did you know that you will probably NEVER use all 170watts of power the Denon offers, not to mention that by the point you hit 170 the amp will be clipping and you will be well over the ability of the speakers.


So lets see... Do me a favor and goto your local dealer. Ask to speak with the person who has been selling and using audio for over 10 years. Then ask them why they feel the B&K is better. Sure, knobs are nice... DSP functions are cool, and blah blah blah...


As for DST ES Discrete... who cares? How many DVD's take advantage of this? By the way, once it is something worth having, you can just upgrade the B&K via a real upgrade path - not something Denon puts out but never uses.


Dan


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Dan Henderson
[email protected]
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Who cares about DTS ES Discrete? Are you kidding me?? Have you HEARD the Haunting or Gladiator or Chicken Run on a Denon 5800? Do you know how many new movies are slated for DTS ES Discrete release? My god man, that's the 1 point you DID Not want to make for an audio phile like me. Do you think I paid $1500 and added those last 2 back surround speakers for my HEALTH? DTS-ES Discrete is the REASON I bought a 7 channel receiver my friend. THX-EX with it's matrixed back channel doesn't COMPARE to DTS-ES Discrete. And once again, you're wrong about the comp. video section, let me give you a quote here from somebody who's tested it out: "The AVR-5800, according to Gary Merson, is the only A/V reciever with component switching that can pass a true HD signal. All other recievers, including Yamaha's latest, attenuate the super high frequencies of the HD signal." There you go, WRONG AGAIN. And the final reason I would never buy the B&K other than the fact that it's underpowered and doesn;t have a KEY standard like DTS ES Discrete which is what the dang receiver is for, is because it's built by a small american company. Enough said
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Dpak2000


The Haunting, Gladiator, and Chicken Run are the only DTS ES Discrete soundtracks out there. There are not many titles slated for new release either as you seem to believe (and if there are, please name them). I have heard that the new release of Seven will be DTS Discrete. Its great that you love your Denon 5800, but there are other quality products out there as well.


Mark


[This message has been edited by Wutang (edited 12-03-2000).]
I'm not saying the Denon is bad but the B&K will have the ability to add DTS-ES and DPL 2. The Denon will be an old unit as soon as the 5900 hits.


The big Denon is nice but the 3801 is a much better value IMO.


B&K does have better build quality and you can add the pronto for 200 bucks.
dpack - you never answered my question. I assume then that you have not

in fact auditioned the AVR-307 vs. the AVR-5800. Nuff Said.


As for DTS ES.. Let me tell you that B&K CAN and WILL offer this once it starts selling.


Remote? 50% of 5800 buyers sell their RS-8000 on Ebay to get a Pronto.


Firewire? Yes. What else do I need to say? It also has Motorola's new Symphony DSP chips.


I think it is clear that the B&K sounds better than the Denon on every aspect except the DTS ES which is not currently offered. When speaking with B&K they said that both DTS ES and DPLII will be offered when they become more popular.


I tried another test yesterday. I connected the B&K 307 and Denon AVR-5800 (in pure direct mode) up to the new DVP-S9000ES SACD Player. Using SACD's on a pair of Monitor Audio Silver 9i towers. I can honestly say that for 2ch performance there was NO contest. BTW - I used all the same wiring. For those that do not know, the Monitor Audio towere are not easy to drive. They need an amp with real current to shine. (You should hear them with the REF 30 and Ref2220 amp!!!)


Good day.


Dan




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Dan Henderson
[email protected]
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I've owned my B&K 307 fopr 3 months now and I can honestly say it's the most versatile and the best-sounding one I've heard. Okay, that's a blanket statement - why you ask?


One thing - FLEXIBLE BASS MANAGEMENT


All things being equal, the integration of your subwoofer to the rest of your speakers has the greatest effect on your home theater sound (next to speaker placement, of course). The ability to vary your high-pass subwoofer crossover frequency AND slope is one thing the imports don't have. To have this ability means that you can a) control how hard your receiver works (impacting power usage) and b) maximizing the full capabilities of your speakers. If you can afford a Denon 5800, I'm sure you may have mains that can go down below ~40hz. Doesn't it suck that your receiver sends all your upper and mid-bass (<80hz) to your subwoofer when it should go through your mains (if your speakers settings are set to "Small"? If you set your mains to "Large," doesn't it suck when you have your subwoofer and mains reproducing the same signal - resulting in an unnatural bass boost in your room? IMHO, subwoofers only sound best when reproducing the rumbling LFE signals below 40hz. I have never heard a subwoofer send out upper and mid-bass better than a pair of mains. Why - no imaging. Do you understand why subwoofer integration is important?


BTW - if there is a "bass boost" in your room (due to room acoustics), the B&K can take care of it using the notch filter. Can your Denon?


Let's see:


B&K - high-pass filter(20-200hz xover, 6,12,or 24 db/octave slope) PLUS the ability to defeat your low-pass (i.e. "sub out") filter so you don't have "cascading" crossover effects (sub xover is different from receiver sub-out xover).


Denon 5800 - high-pass filter (stuck at 80hz xover, 12 db/octave slope)


Yamaha RX-V1- high-pass filter (stuck at 90hz xover, 12 db/octave slope)


If you don't understand what these numbers mean, then start reading your college Physics textbook.


Give me this feature and the basics (DD, DTS, analog bypass, etc.) over a touchscreen remote, DTS-ES (which B&K will offer as an upgrade January), 30 billion DSP modes, and firewire ANYDAY.



[This message has been edited by miltk (edited 12-03-2000).]


[This message has been edited by miltk (edited 12-03-2000).]
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My B&K is better, no my Denon is better, no mine is better. For that kind of money I bought separates. Lexicon DC-1 ver.4 DTS, Parasound 1205A Total cost $2.800. Soon to be working through M&K S150THX's.The Lex is upgradable and supported. I'm sure with the great customer support they have, when DTS EX becomes a more popular standard they will have an upgrade for it. Also dealer cost for the Denon is around $2,200, the cheapest I have seen the 5800 for is $3,700. I can't see paying that kind of mark-up. OK, now let the flames begin.

Ira


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[email protected]

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Nothing like some gas for the fire, eh?


Anyhow, someone asked about the Ref30 Ref2220 combo... AWESOME! I am only intersted in 2ch right now, so I could care less about the other 3-5channels. The Ref 30 Retails for $2700, and the Ref2220 for $1300. Thats $4k for the combo. For another $1200 I could have had a Ref7250 (5 ch) but no use. I might get another Ref2220 and Bi-Amp my speakers.. then I will only need a 3ch to finish the system.


Markup of a product has NOTHING to do with this conversation. Want to know something, all audio is marked up about the same. Receivers, Seperates, whatever... Why not? Lexus doesn't lower their margin to compete with Chevy, why should they?


Dan


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Dan Henderson
[email protected]
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