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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've owned my Denon 5900 for about 3 months now and I'm happy with it in all respects except its ability to play back dvd-r's. I've backed up my movie collection onto Ritek g04 dvd -r media and my 5900 will start pixelating on many of these backed up movies starting at around an hour to one and a half hour into the movie. I would say that the ratio of movies that it screws up on is 60% ,40% being ok. The pixelating gets worse as the movie plays and progresses to severe pixelating and hesitation and pausing on some of the movies other movies don't degrade that badly but are pixelating mildly to moderately by the end of the movie. This doesn't happen on my panny rp91 or a $49.00 Apex player (although one apex started pixeliting mildly at the very end of a movie a couple of minutes before the credits started). I called the dealer that I purchased it from and the person I talked to used an analogy of using cheap gasoline in a high performance car verses using using the same gas in an average car. The average car may operate fine on the cheap gas but the high performance one may not due to its higher state of tune the Denon being more critical of all aspects of the disk that it is playing than the lesser machine. Well I don't really think I buy this although I'm willing to consider other possibilities such as the media being marginal or substandard in some way or the dvd burner being out of spec or a combination of both. But this still doesn't explain why the others do ok and the Denon doesn't. The burner is a Sony dru 500a and has given no problems in any way and I don't use labels on the dvd's. So the question is are other 5900 owners experiencing this with their players? Should I experiment and try different media such as +r's. This unit has had no problems with pressed dvd's except an occasional very brief layer change pause. What would you do if this 5900 belonged to you?

Thanks for your time

Luckyflyer
 

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Lucky,


I don't have experience with the 5900, but I do have some experience burning, authoring and testing DVDs. I have never heard of the brand media you used to back up your movie collection. The first step would be to try another brand. I can't really recommend anything specific. Brands I've used are HP, Sony and Memorex. I tend to like the HP the best, but I can't say why. Just one of those things.


In some of my 'not to scientific' testing, I've found some players media brand sensitive vice media type sensitive (i.e. player wouldn't read brand x DVD-R but would read brand y DVD-R). Having said that, I haven't seen the pixellation you refer to, but have only tested (and briefly I might add) for format readability the Denon 1600, 2200 and 2900, Yamaha DVD740, 940, CX-1 and 2300, and finally the Sony N685.


I use the Sony DRU510 dual format burner and the HPDVD200i +R/+RW burners. I would recommend trying several different media types (Sony, HP etc.) and format types (DVD-R/-RW, DVD+R/+RW) IF you have multiple or dual format burners. Also try burning at a slower speed if all else fails. I've also had several firmware updates on my HP drive which was supposed to enhance the compatability of the +RW format across a broader range of players. I haven't tested this though. You may want to see if there are any firmware updates for your burner.


As far as the explanation comparing the 5900 to a highly tuned car needing high octane gas, I think that's complete hooey. If anything the analogy is flawed. A player of this caliber should be able to track, read and play back disks better than a $49 special.


In summary:


Try different brand disks

Try different format disks

Try slower burning speeds


I also shutdown all non-essential software, screensavers etc. so the CPU only has one thing to do....burn a disk.


Best of luck and hope this helped.
 

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Did you use a computer or a dvd-r to make these backups?

I would tell your dealer that a Rolls Royce has a great ride, even when the road is a little bumpy. If you're not satisfied with a DVD player that cost 10x what a normal unit costs he should be doing whatever he can to make you satisfied.

Sam
 

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Ritek is one of the biggest manufacturers and Ritek/Ridata G04 is one of the best DVD-R media available now. Only the brands like Pioneer and Taiyo Yuden are consistently better, the rest are quite comparable, even if they cost more, and are, in fact, often Ritek OEM. However even with Ritek there are chances of getting in a bad batch.


I would try using CDSpeed for after-brun media testing. CDSpeed ( www.cdspeed2000.com ) is a small and free application companion from Nero. It tests, mainly, data transfer from the DVD and, therefore, burn and media quality. If CDSpeed shows significant drops in transfer rate close to the end of the disc (and this seems to be a case), then I would rather blame your burner/firmware. If not - then I would assume the Denon is too picky.
 

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I have pretty close to your situation. I use Ritek G04s(TDK branded though) and I have a Sony DRU510. I have made quite a few backups and never have I had a problem. What burning program are you using? I mainly use Nero, but also Pinnacle.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks for all of the replies.


Trashcan

I think the next step will be to drop the burn speed down to 2x. If that doesn't correct the problem I'll try different media, if no go there then I think there is an issue with the 5900.


SamEdwards

The Sony DRU500a is a computer based recorder. I agree with you on the bumpy ride, I can only hope that my dealer doesn't give me a bumpy ride on the 5900 if it comes to that. I don't think he will he has been a straight shooter in the past.


brewerboy

I've been using Clone dvd but I've also used Pinnacle it doesn't seem to mater which burning software I use.


.KostyaNP

I downloaded Nero DVDspeed. It showed no drop in transfer speed towards the end. I tried it on the sony and my liteon 166s no reduction in speed there either.
 

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Lucky,


Something I just thought of regarding burn speed. Some disks are only rated up to 2x or 4 x etc. Be sure you aren't trying to burn at 4x to a 2x disk.


I also want to caveat the fact that my trials were with disks authored from raw DV footage using Adobe Premier. I haven't tried copying DVD of a major film...yet.
 

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For DVD video you *HAVE* to burn at 1x, even if the media is 2x, otherwise you get such behavior when the disc gets hot. Try to keep a "defective" DVD-R in your freezer for sometime, then play it again from the point it starts to pixellate: it will be gone. So, heat is the problem, expecially if you have recorded at 2x.
 

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Quote:
For DVD video you *HAVE* to burn at 1x, even if the media is 2x, otherwise you get such behavior when the disc
Locutus,


I've never heard this before. Where does this info come from? I have been burning at whatever the media is rated for with never a problem. Even up to 4x. Don't some programs just get the media code and burn at whatever the speed rated on the media is, not even giving you a choice, e.g. DVDXcopy.
 

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Re: burning speed


Hogwash!



My Sony DVP-NS905 plays DVD-R recorded at 4x without a problem. The same does the players owned by friends which I have burned some disc for.


The Denon 5900 appears to be the problem (as always).



Esp1
 

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I'm assuming the backup works in your computer. I've never had an issue with this but I've heard of it happening. I have a Pioneer A06 burner and I always use the 4x speed. And I use cheap media from CompUSA. This has worked on my old Toshiba DVD player as well as the Denon 2200 I picked up this weekend.

Getting a bit on the shady side here, but have you tried using a program like DVD Shrink? It could be a decryption issue or a region coding issue.


~Sentinal
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by luckyflyer
I downloaded Nero DVDspeed. It showed no drop in transfer speed towards the end. I tried it on the sony and my liteon 166s no reduction in speed there either.
Sony is your burner and Liteon 166 is DVD-ROM drive, both PC-based, right? The CDSpeed transfer rate curve starts (at least with the Liteon, I'm not sure if your burner designed to read DVD at more then 2X) at something like 4X and climbs up to around 6X-8X, is smooth and stable all the way till the end? If that's the case, I would try different media, going along quality rating from Ritek up, not down. That basically means Taiyo Yuden as Pioneer is considerablly more expensive. If this does not work, I would try going down (e.g., Samsung BeAll media) or to the side - DVD+R format (if your burner can do that). As last resort, you might try and force the dealer to replace the Denon. I don't think that the problem has anything to do with burninng speed, encoding, region, etc..
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Quote:
Sony is your burner and Liteon 166 is DVD-ROM drive, both PC-based, right? The CDSpeed transfer rate curve starts (at least with the Liteon, I'm not sure if your burner designed to read DVD at more then 2X) at something like 4X and climbs up to around 6X-8X, is smooth and stable all the way till the end?
Thats correct the Sony and Liteon are both PC based. Using DVDspeed the Liteon starts at 4x and ends at 8x and the Sony starts and ends at 2x on a 3.8gig movie This weekend I will backup a movie and record at 2x and see what happens. I also have a Fuji labeled(actually a Ricoh) +rw that I will try. I've thought about talking to my dealer again but I think I will wait, I want to be armed with as much data and facts as possible. For right now I think I'll just forget about watching a movie and put the Eagles Hotel California sacd on the 5900. and dust the cones of my B&W 802's. Thats bound to help ease the aggravation of this -r issue.


Thanks for the help I will report back this weekend
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Quote:
I'm assuming the backup works in your computer.
The backup work fine on my computer based Liteon and Sony. The backups also work fine on a $49 Apex and a Denon 1600.
Quote:
have you tried using a program like DVD Shrink?
I have not tried DVD shrink but have tried several other backup software,

Clone DVD

Xcopy

Pinnacle Instant copy
 

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According to the product data sheet, "Discs that have been poorly finalized following recording may be only partially playable or not playable at all." Now, I have no idea what "poorly finalized" means, but I use Nero and have never had an issue.

The other thing you may want to do is take a backed-up disc to your local AV store where you bought the unit and see how their units handle it.


One other question. If you skip to a chapter about halfway through the DVD, does it still pixelate at the end or does it play clear through?


Also, in looking through the manual, it repeats that the finalization process is important. "Depending on the disc's recording status, the disc may not be accepted or may not be played normally (the picture or sound me not be smooth, etc.)


So, either the player is caching something for some reason as the movie plays (which can be checked by starting from mid-way through the movie and playing to the end), or the DVD-R isn't finalized correctly (which can be checked by taking a faulty disc to your AV shop).


~Sentinal
 
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