Get an exclusive sneak peek into our new project. >>> Click Here
Our native mobile app has a new name: Fora Communities. Learn more.

Denon 8500 by itself or need amp?

2435 Views 10 Replies 7 Participants Last post by yodog, Sep 2, 2019

DarinS

Discussion Starter · Aug 31, 2019

I've moved and my old dedicated theater equipment went with the sale of the house. (see what I used to own in my sig)

So, I'm getting ready to convert a storage area back into a theater. This time around I'm not going with a projector and plan on spending a little less than my last set up.

My current plan is:

Denon 8500 13.2 channel A/V receiver 150W/ch (2 ch driven)
SVS Ultra towers for L and R, center, surrounds for side, bookshelf for rears, and 4 prime elevations for my heights, PB-3000x2 subs
85" UHD 4k tv

SVS told me I may want to consider getting something like the Emotiva XPA3 to run my center, L, R and use the Denon to run the rest. If that's the case, after researching, I'm wondering if I'd be better off with the new Monolith 7x200 and let it run the front stage and my surrounds and then let the Denon power the heights. They also told me it won't hurt anything to try it out with the Denon powering everything.

I'd like some input on this and also the following:

Does powering speakers through the amp make it impossible to use room correction or does all of that still work?

If I do buy the extra 7x200 or something similar, do I really need the Denon 8500 or could I save some money by buying something with less power?

For reference...room is going to be about 15'x23' with 10' ceilings. I mainly want some great LFE and loved my old Danley DTS-10. Overall volume is not usually super loud as my wife likes volumes a little less and I have been recently diagnosed with some early high frequency hearing loss. I don't want to be too foolish and hurt myself (age 52). Primarly listening position is likely to be about 10' away. Still toying with the idea of doing another stadium seating like my last set up since I do have the room length to accommodate it.

Thanks for the input.

Darin

See less See more

Save

1 - 11 of 11 Posts

RayGuy

· #2 · Aug 31, 2019 (Edited)

You won't save any money on the receiver unless you choose to use less than 13 channels. There aren't any reasonably priced 13 channel receivers, there aren't even any reasonably priced 11 channel receivers. The money begins to make some sense at 11 channels of processing and 9 channels of amplification.

Yes, getting an outboard amp will allow the receiver to more easily power the other speakers. Something like the Outlaw 5000 would be a good choice, allowing the receiver's limited power supply to be allocated to fewer channels. A seven channel amp would just be overkill. Even the three channel Emotiva is probably sufficient. You are only sitting 10 feet away!

BTW, when you say height channels, do you mean Atmos? 7.x.4 would be a good layout, even 5.x.4, if the room is on the small side. Sometimes less is more. Also, for Atmos, better with in or on ceiling speakers, aligned with the fronts, vs side mounted speakers. If you haven't already looked at the Dolby speaker layout diagrams, do so. Good info re placement options.

Room correction is at the pre-amp stage, so internal or external amp makes no difference.

Your wife has a good notion, lower the volume, concentrate on getting sound quality instead of quantity. They're your ears for life, and you pay for excessive volumes with hearing loss. Why accelerate the process?

See less See more

Save

DarinS

Discussion Starter · #3 · Sep 1, 2019

In response to your excellent input:

1. I just read up on the Outlaw 5000. Nice price point for sure. If I got that, would I bi-amp the L and R?

2. Yes, I meant to imply Atmos. I was leaning toward the SVS Elevation speakers mounted on the front and back walls near the ceiling and in line with the L/R. This is a basement HT set up and I'm hoping to reduce as much noise bleed to the main level as possible. I was guessing that in-ceiling speakers would be yet another hole in my ceiling and would likely increase noise to the main living area. I am planning on using the double sheet rock/green glue method for sound reduction. I've even toyed with the idea of not putting in can lights and going with more wall sconces but I don't know if that is really a realistic situation.

3. Concerning subs and going against my thoughts on sound isolation, I've been doing more research and for only $400/sub more I could go with dual Rythmics FV18's. I have the space and the money would not be a deal killer. My room is going to be about 3200 cubic feet more or less. To me, good sounding and good feeling LFE's are what can make a great theater impact (literally and figuratively). Would the Rythmics be overkill or something right up my alley?

4. Lastly, I did mention a primary position of about 10' but the room is still being designed so it could end up being more like 12-14'. Really, that is a work in progress.

Thanks for the continued input!

See less See more

Save

zorax2

· #4 · Sep 1, 2019

I'm running a Denon X4300 as a PrePro in a 7.1.4 configuration. I got great deals on used amps (ATI 2005 and 1807). It works great. If using identical amps, you will not hear a sound quality difference between the Denon 8500 and my older X4300 - any sound difference is due to the Audyssey calibration.

While the 8500 can probably do a great job for your system, you could probably pickup a Denon X4300, X4400 or X4500 along with a new or used 3 or more channel amp instead. With an amp for your main LCR channels, any of those models will power your remaining channels with no problem. The nice thing about having an amp for your mains is that you won't have to buy an Denon 8500 equivalent just to get all channels amplified whenever there is a new HDMI revision, 8K, new sound format that compels you to upgrade your AVR. You'll be able to use a mid-tier level AVR at a much lower price as to having to pay for another flagship AVR.

You may not need the extra amplification with your particular setup of efficient speakers and what you describe as your typical listening level. On the other hand, amps last virtually forever, and a mid-range AVR with a multichannel amp may position you better for the future in terms of upgrade costs and the fact that you'll know the amp will provide enough power that you'll never have to worry about damage from clipping with your system.

See less See more

Save

RayGuy

· #5 · Sep 1, 2019

DarinS said:
In response to your excellent input:

1. I just read up on the Outlaw 5000. Nice price point for sure. If I got that, would I bi-amp the L and R?

2. Yes, I meant to imply Atmos. I was leaning toward the SVS Elevation speakers mounted on the front and back walls near the ceiling and in line with the L/R. This is a basement HT set up and I'm hoping to reduce as much noise bleed to the main level as possible. I was guessing that in-ceiling speakers would be yet another hole in my ceiling and would likely increase noise to the main living area. I am planning on using the double sheet rock/green glue method for sound reduction. I've even toyed with the idea of not putting in can lights and going with more wall sconces but I don't know if that is really a realistic situation.

3. Concerning subs and going against my thoughts on sound isolation, I've been doing more research and for only $400/sub more I could go with dual Rythmics FV18's. I have the space and the money would not be a deal killer. My room is going to be about 3200 cubic feet more or less. To me, good sounding and good feeling LFE's are what can make a great theater impact (literally and figuratively). Would the Rythmics be overkill or something right up my alley?

4. Lastly, I did mention a primary position of about 10' but the room is still being designed so it could end up being more like 12-14'. Really, that is a work in progress.

Thanks for the continued input!

1. No reason to bi-amp anything. In your situation (and assuming a reasonably efficient speaker set) the Outlaw would provide all the power necessary. This is especially true when using subs, since bass frequencies use the most power.

2. I would suggest you visit the HT Build section of this forum for tips re acoustically isolating your basement from the rest of the house. To that end, I think it's a good approach to not use in-wall or in-ceiling speakers in your design. For Atmos, that leaves you two options, one is the approach you mentioned, with speakers on the front and back walls near the ceiling, another is to mount on ceiling speakers more in line with the Dolby spec for Atmos speakers (nearer your seats). I've heard folks being happy with either layout ...

3. Well, you are almost never going to get the word "overkill" used by folks on this forum. Some even have double digit subs in their HT! For you, looking for "impact", you will probably want to overbuy a bit to ensure you get that, especially if you have a concrete floor. Those Rythmik are a fine choice. I suspect you may receive some other suggestions, as well.

4. The difference between 10 and 14 feet is not terribly significant, so I think you can relax on that issue.

See less See more

Save

torii

· #6 · Sep 1, 2019

external amps might get ya an extra 3 db or so...

Save

mogorf

· #7 · Sep 1, 2019

torii said:
external amps might get ya an extra 3 db or so...

105 dB reference level (SPL) will be 105 dB at 0 dB (electric) input no matter how powerful you external amp is.

Save

torii

· #8 · Sep 1, 2019

mogorf said:
105 dB reference level (SPL) will be 105 dB at 0 dB (electric) input no matter how powerful you external amp is.

those svs probably cant do 105db...what are they 86 db sensitive? and dont forget about 115db peaks....

Save

mogorf

· #9 · Sep 1, 2019

torii said:
those svs probably cant do 105db...what are they 86 db sensitive? and dont forget about 115db peaks....

Agree, but an external amp won't help either.

Save

m. zillch

· #10 · Sep 1, 2019 (Edited)

I think it is wasteful to buy external amps unless one has tested the lower power amps and discovered they clip on some material.

The 8500 is no slouch and zillions of people get buy just fine using much lower powered units than "flagship" level AVRs .

Save

yodog

· #11 · Sep 2, 2019

If using/buying the 8500 then dont get an external power amp. If going with anything lower then sure if you want to splurge. But the 8500’s internal amplification is a beast regarding av receivers

Save

1 - 11 of 11 Posts

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.

Top Contributors this Month