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I own no high end gear, but I will take a stab at it for you!

The x8500 brings back front wides (rare), has the ability to do 6 atmos channels and has 13 channels built-in, in case space is limited in the AV rack or entertainment center.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I own no high end gear, but I will take a stab at it for you!

The x8500 brings back front wides (rare), has the ability to do 6 atmos channels and has 13 channels built-in, in case space is limited in the AV rack or entertainment center.
Really do not think so.
another 2 top speakers are worth $ 2000 more on the AVR

You have not brought any logical links to your thinking

Something in the AVR's engine is different
 

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Really do not think so.
another 2 top speakers are worth $ 2000 more on the AVR

You have not brought any logical links to your thinking

Something in the AVR's engine is different
Yes, he put thought into his reply. Yes, the processing and added channels are likely a huge jump in design and build costs. The 8500 integrates ALL AI formats, has a larger transformer, etc... Just because YOU don't think it is worth it, is meaningless. If you are having such a difficult time accepting the 8500 price, just buy the 6500 and add an external amp. VOILA! You have a poor mans 8500! :rolleyes:
 

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Really do not think so.
another 2 top speakers are worth $ 2000 more on the AVR

You have not brought any logical links to your thinking

Something in the AVR's engine is different

While the price might not be justified for you or many of us, his answer is quite straight forward to me - not sure what you mean by 'logical' unless you'd like him to spout some marketing fluff to make it more feasible to you.



How's this then: The clarity attained from the better caps used on the circuit board will bring your music to new heights!
 

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Yes, he put thought into his reply. Yes, the processing and added channels are likely a huge jump in design and build costs. The 8500 integrates ALL AI formats, has a larger transformer, etc... Just because YOU don't think it is worth it, is meaningless. If you are having such a difficult time accepting the 8500 price, just buy the 6500 and add an external amp. VOILA! You have a poor mans 8500! :rolleyes:
The X6500H is an 11CH AVR only capable of 11CH processing. No further expansion is possible as is the case for the 9CH X4500H that can be expanded to 11CH using an external 2CH amp.
 

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Historically, adding the last 2 channels has always cost an arm and a leg. No matter who the manufacturer is/was. Because some want the best and are willing to pay for it.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
All you have brought is your line of thinking / Personal logic

Not backed up or brought proof that the gap is $ 2000
Just comes from adding 2 channels!

No such answer can be taken seriously
Without proof, worthless

Sorry you need to bring proof!
Need to bring links!
 

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The X6500H is an 11CH AVR only capable of 11CH processing. No further expansion is possible as is the case for the 9CH X4500H that can be expanded to 11CH using an external 2CH amp.
Aha...Gotcha!

All you have brought is your line of thinking / Personal logic

Not backed up or brought proof that the gap is $ 2000
Just comes from adding 2 channels!

No such answer can be taken seriously
Without proof, worthless

Sorry you need to bring proof!
Need to bring links!
Sorry, we don't "need to bring" anything. If you can't understand the concept and reasoning, that's all on you. A manufacturer has no obligation to tell you the reason for their pricing structure. If you like it, buy it, if not, don't.
 

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All you have brought is your line of thinking / Personal logic

Not backed up or brought proof that the gap is $ 2000
Just comes from adding 2 channels!

No such answer can be taken seriously
Without proof, worthless

Sorry you need to bring proof!
Need to bring links!
Allow me to explain capitalism for you. A product is worth EXACTLY what people will pay for it. Period.

The "link" you're searching for is www.denon.com. The "proof" you so desperately crave is that Denon is charging $4,000. Your issue is with them, not people here.

You want the 8500 for $2,500, we get it. Ain't happening, say Denon. If people don't pay the $4K, the price will drop. If they do, you're going to have to pony up.

I have Anthem equipment, which I paid a pretty penny for. It was my choice. That's the way all this works. Capiche?

Wait a while, and it'll come down. Right about when the 15.2 receivers show up.
 

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Processing 13+ channels does not come cheap. Even Monoprice's new pre/pro (no power amps included) is coming in ~$4000 and it is one of the least expensive options. 13 power amps does not come cheap. Engineering (circuitry layout/cooling/power & noise handling/etc.) this beast is not cheap.

8500 adds 20lbs in weight over the 6500. Denon did not just take a 6500 and plop 2 additional amps into the device. There is obviously more going on than just the 2 channels.

In addition, Denon's flagship receivers are designed with a multi-year shelf life whereas the lower models are designed to be refreshed every year (this year being different due to HDMI availability). A lot of forward-thinking goes into something like that and it starts much sooner than a product that gets refreshed on a yearly schedule. I am speculating here, but I would not be surprised if there is a different, higher-end design team for the flagship products vs the 6500 and lower.

Check out photos of the rear panels and internals for each model. They are both very different.

I am not sure what links you are hoping to find or have someone provide. Denon does not provide a BOM (Bill of Materials listing every part and the cost of each part) you can download. Even if so, that would not cover engineering/production/packaging/marketing/shipping/etc. costs (yes, every one of those steps and more is calculated in the final price).

Then, there is the almighty markup. For every product, the higher level has a bit more markup. Think trims in the car market. The base model may be $15000. When you step up to the top of the line, you may be looking at $30,000. Is there really twice the car value there? No. But, to some consumers, they want/need the options and conveniences provided.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Aha...Gotcha!



Sorry, we don't "need to bring" anything. If you can't understand the concept and reasoning, that's all on you.
Again wrong, the manufacturer has never claimed that double price because of another 2 channels!
You claimed it !!!
Because you claim it you have the responsibility to prove it!
You claim that you have no proof of what you write, so do not take anything into account

A manufacturer has no obligation to tell you the reason for their pricing structure. If you like it, buy it, if not, don't.
If the manufacturer does not claim it, is that your invention?
You have no proof, as you say.

....
 

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If the manufacturer does not claim it, is that your invention?
You have no proof, as you say.

....
Now you are just being a troll. You have been told the manufacturer doesn't disclose it. I stated nothing as fact. You need to get out of here. You are doing nothing more than trying to incite. Buh-bye. :laugh:
 

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I had a brief chance to buy a new 6500 for $1500 and took it. Didn't spend too much time thinking about the 8500. My back should thank me.
 

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I'm not really following all receiver brands that closely, but are there many other 13.2 receivers around? If not then that in itself is a reason for Denon to set the price way up, exclusivity.
 

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Easy to calculate...
The AVR market of $3000-$4000(SRP) is a 3% market for unit sales, AVR market of $1800-$2500(SRP) is a 12% market for unit sales...
The lower AVR market of $1800-$2500 sells 4X the # of units sold..

Just my $0.02... ;)
 
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