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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have had an Onkyo 809 in my system for about two weeks and while listening to some music (jazz) when I turned up the volume to a heathy level my Martin Logan's started to distort. To make a long story short, I went to BB to pick up another receiver just to see if I can duplicate the problem. While I was in the store I found a very good closeout price on a Denon 3311 so I purchased the unit. When I returned home with the 3311 I hooked everything up and I was blown away on how much better the Denon sounded; the soundstage was opened up and the overall sound was bigger, better and more spacious...and absolutely no distortion at any level. The Denon is a much smaller and lighter unit, but the sound and power it delivers is far superior to the Onkyo 809.
 

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Couple of comments from someone who also owned both and had them together:


Comparative listening is only reliable when double blind and they are next to each other. Trying one in the morning and one in the afternoon is imperfect testing solely by our imperfect memory.


Both use Audyssey MultiEQ XT that does an excellent job in calibrating a room. Once it is run properly, I doubt you'd be able to hear much of a difference unless you are using the Onyko's THX processing, which in my experience can have an audible difference in sound (not saying better for the record).


Both receivers provide excellent power and I doubt you would see much in the way of clipping or distortion unless you're using really inefficient speakers.


Candidly, these are the unscientific, nearly salacious posts that lead people to think that a similar receiver "blows away" another, which is largely false in most contexts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Well, your last comment was salacious in its own right and uncalled for! This forum is for discussion purposes and to share our experiences/findings with other members. My opinion as a knowledgeable audio hobbyist is as stated in my last post!


That being said, It might be the fact that the Martin Logan’s that I am using are very revealing speakers. They will not sound very good with bad recordings and will also reveal any shortcomings of the equipment that one might be using. I come from high end equipment…i.e. B&K & Krell so I know what I am talking about here. There is a difference in amp design between the two units and the Denon will sound better with “more revealing” speakers like Martin Logan. I have switched back and forth over the last two days and even everybody in my family, whom are not into audio like me, can hear the difference between the two units. Keep in mind that I am talking about two channel audio here, not in full bore surround sound. I agree with you that the differences here are minimal
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
OK, I have played around with the two units now for a few days side by side and for two channel audio listening the Denon 3311 not only "blows away" the Onkyo 809, it is in a totally different league altogether! With both units in pure audio mode the biggest differences is the bottom end/bass; there is a tremendous increase in bass and a sense of fullness when switching to the Denon, the Onkyo is thin sounding and lackluster in comparison. The midrange and highs are also much more three dimensional and refined using the Denon, where is the Onkyo is more harsh and thin sounding.


The build quality, however, is much better on the Onkyo…go figure.
 

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As winston9332 said - your opinion is subjective. Don't try to tout it as fact. There are tons of settings on these new AVRs - perhaps you didn't understand the ones on the Onkyo. But to announce that the Denon 'blows away' the Onkyo is just that - subjective.


FWIW I own a Denon 589 and and two Onkyo products currently - an Integra DHC 40.1 and an 8255 stereo receiver. Neither brands blow the other away IMO.
 

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Hello,

After reading how well the far less expensive Onkyo TX-NR609 did on the Test Bench, I too am somewhat curious if it was truly an even playing field. As has been pointed out, with the myriad of Listening Modes, whether or not things like Audyssey Dynamic Volume or EQ are default after running MultEQ, etc..


Regardless, all that matters is that you are pleased with the Denon. However, it seems to be a pretty bold assertion. Especially with the Onkyo more than likely having a larger Power Transformer and Capacitors.

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The transformer in the Denon looks to be bigger in size. Also, I stated in my last post the two receivers were set to “pure audio” with no sub in the mix so this was Denon amp vs. Onkyo amp and the Denon wins hands down!

Go buy these two units and test them out side by side and for sure you will hear what I am talking about. I was listening to a Ray Brown cd last night and the bass and drums were so much better when using the Denon, the Onkyo was very thin and not up to the task of driving the Martin Logan’s.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knucklehead90 /forum/post/20868393


As winston9332 said - your opinion is subjective. Don't try to tout it as fact. There are tons of settings on these new AVRs - perhaps you didn't understand the ones on the Onkyo. But to announce that the Denon 'blows away' the Onkyo is just that - subjective.


FWIW I own a Denon 589 and and two Onkyo products currently - an Integra DHC 40.1 and an 8255 stereo receiver. Neither brands blow the other away IMO.

Your opinion of my opinion is also subjective as well. This is a place where we can talk about our equipment and what we experience. In my opinion the Denon amp design is superior (blows away) that of the Onkyo. The 809 is a nice unit with a lot of nice features, but the bottom line is that if you spend time listing to two channel audio and you are picky about sound quality than the Denon receiver, in this case, is the better choice.

If you guys don't like that for whatever reason than too bad!
 

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That is quite similar and of the quality of a subjective statement like "my girlfriend is ... (better/prettier... you name it) than yours ..." statement.

That Denon must a different kind of species - really - if he says so ! Believe me ... or not
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GOLFERADAM12 /forum/post/20869458


Nice.


I thought that we had audio hobbyist like me here, but I guess not.

You do have other hobbyist like you here. I'm one. If you feel the Denon blows away the Onkyo then that is all that matters. Don't worry about what anyone says. You are the only one that has to be happy with your purchase. Good luck and enjoy the change. Sound is always opinionated and what you like is all that counts. Your opinion is just as valuable as everyone else here.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GOLFERADAM12 /forum/post/20869314


The transformer in the Denon looks to be bigger in size. Also, I stated in my last post the two receivers were set to pure audio with no sub in the mix so this was Denon amp vs. Onkyo amp and the Denon wins hands down!

Go buy these two units and test them out side by side and for sure you will hear what I am talking about. I was listening to a Ray Brown cd last night and the bass and drums were so much better when using the Denon, the Onkyo was very thin and not up to the task of driving the Martin Logan's.

Hello,

After DL'ing the 3312 Owners Manual it is specified at 670 Watts whereas the 809 is rated at 7.5 Amps or 900 Watts. It is not even close when it comes to Power Supply. Again all that matters is that you are happy with it.

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I did a blind test between a Denon 3310 and an Onkyo 807 and picking my favorite was almost impossible. In a blind test I picked a different one almost every time. The test was done on Klipsch RF7s (it was the best speaker they had in my opinion) and those are much easier to drive so the power factor was probably not an issue. I own the 3311 and it does have plenty of power for my setup. I've never seen it struggle with anything I throw at it. I have not used an 809 so I can't say weather or not Onkyo has skimped on their amps this year or not. I am not a big Onkyo fan after seeing all the problems with their last 3 series but I have not seen a lot of complaints about their amps so I think that's why everybody is so surprised by your findings. If you do a blind test you will get a little more support but there will always be people who will disagree with your finding. The important thing is you found the right receiver for your setup. Glad you're happy with your 3311, I love mine as well.
 

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The thing that matters is what you hear and thats the bottom line I think some were just set back by the blows away wording.I have the 809 and love it but I was coming from a 705 which is 5 years old and still working fine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiodork /forum/post/20870027


Hello,

After DL'ing the 3312 Owners Manual it is specified at 670 Watts whereas the 809 is rated at 7.5 Amps or 900 Watts. It is not even close when it comes to Power Supply. Again all that matters is that you are happy with it.

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The proof is in real world applications. I assure you that the onkyo cannot handle high demanding speakers like the Logan’s…whereas the Denon does will ease. So I find that the Denon has a more robust power reserve and the sound is quite different than the onkyo as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjpearce023 /forum/post/20870121


I did a blind test between a Denon 3310 and an Onkyo 807 and picking my favorite was almost impossible. In a blind test I picked a different one almost every time. The test was done on Klipsch RF7s (it was the best speaker they had in my opinion) and those are much easier to drive so the power factor was probably not an issue. I own the 3311 and it does have plenty of power for my setup. I've never seen it struggle with anything I throw at it. I have not used an 809 so I can't say weather or not Onkyo has skimped on their amps this year or not. I am not a big Onkyo fan after seeing all the problems with their last 3 series but I have not seen a lot of complaints about their amps so I think that's why everybody is so surprised by your findings. If you do a blind test you will get a little more support but there will always be people who will disagree with your finding. The important thing is you found the right receiver for your setup. Glad you're happy with your 3311, I love mine as well.

Well put!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GOLFERADAM12 /forum/post/20870616


The proof is in real world applications. I assure you that the onkyo cannot handle high demanding speakers like the Logan’s…whereas the Denon does will ease. So I find that the Denon has a more robust power reserve and the sound is quite different than the onkyo as well.

Hello,

Not even Denons AVR-5308 can handle true Martin Logan ESL Models which dip below 1 Ohm. I use Vantages (Mains), Stage (Center Channel), Vistas (Surrounds), Decent i (Subwoofer 1) and Depth (Subwoofer 2) and use an Aragon 8008bb to drive my Vantages, a Parasound HCA-3500 to drive my Vistas and a HCA-2205 AT to drive my Stage.


Now the Motion Series and the other non Electrostatic Models can be driven by an AVR, but ESL just do not play well with AVRs. While you would get sound, the Highs would be severely rolled off as this is where ML's did down to 0.8 Ohms at the uppermost frequencies.


I certainly wish this was not the case, but it is for Electrostatic Models. However a 27 Pound AVR cannot drive the Speakers I use nor the more expensive Reserve ESL Models.

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