[m_power]

I've decided to purchase a Denon AVR-X3100W two weeks ago (refurbished), and selected this product because I thought Denon product had a good reliability when compared to other brands. My AVR front panel display just failed tonight, and after looking for a couple of minute on the Internet, I found this thread, which in my mind, bring a huge and long list of problems with these AVR.

So my question is, are other brands (i.e. Onkyo, Yamaha, Pioneer, etc.) having similar reliability problems on their avr products, or is it just that Denon really did have alot of problems with their 2014 product line?

 

[nohcho]

I think you will find that yamaha is much better in terms of reliability that denon.

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk

 

[smurraybhm]

Define "much better" and from what do you base that on? One notable AVS member will jump in soon verify Yamaha's infamous reliability, yet no one has any actual independent data. It's like saying Samsung TVs are more reliable than Vizos, then you look at the margin of error for the sample and there really is no statistical difference - see Consumer Reports. Seriously folks, how often do you have receivers fail to a degree that warrants not buying a particular brand for reliability because there is some major manufacturing glitch/design flaw - see Onkyo HDMI board failure as one of the few real "possible" examples. Using a refurb as a measuring stick for reliability is a great test

I have owned just about every brand of receiver (separates when I first started - amp/tuner) made since I started buying av equipment 40 years ago. The only failure I had was with a few Onkyo products (606 and 705) which occurred after their warranties had expired. Eventually that was addressed by Onkyo for some of models - see sticky thread. Buy the brand that best fits your needs financially and has the features you need, more importantly buy it from someone who will be easy to deal with should you be unlucky enough to have an issue meriting replacement (especially when getting a refurb of any product), in other words the seller has a solid reputation for standing behind the products they sell and doesn't push you off on dealing with a warranty claim via the manufacturer after just getting your av product.

Don't focus on what brand may offer a 1% improvement in reliability. As mentioned above make sure you do business with with a quality, well respected ID retailer (Crutchfeld, Amazon, AV Science, etc), local av retailer or a professional installer who will swap out the defective unit quickly. Warranties and/or no questions asked return policies exist for a reason since most issues (real or not) pop up soon after purchase with any product, the key is making sure those that those who offer them follow through on their promises

Now, back to the "much improved" thread discussing of brand reliability based on refurbs, open boxed items, used, new, etc. Apologies for the sarcasm.

 

[m_power]

Define "much better" and from what do you base that on? One notable AVS member will jump in soon verify Yamaha's infamous reliability, yet no one has any actual independent data. It's like saying Samsung TVs are more reliable than Vizos, then you look at the margin of error for the sample and there really is no statistical difference - see Consumer Reports. Seriously folks, how often do you have receivers fail to a degree that warrants not buying a particular brand for reliability because there is some major manufacturing glitch/design flaw - see Onkyo HDMI board failure as one of the few real "possible" examples. Using a refurb as a measuring stick for reliability is a great test

I have owned just about every brand of receiver (separates when I first started - amp/tuner) made since I started buying av equipment 40 years ago. The only failure I had was with a few Onkyo products (606 and 705) which occurred after their warranties had expired. Eventually that was addressed by Onkyo for some of models - see sticky thread. Buy the brand that best fits your needs financially and has the features you need, more importantly buy it from someone who will be easy to deal with should you be unlucky enough to have an issue meriting replacement (especially when getting a refurb of any product), in other words the seller has a solid reputation for standing behind the products they sell and doesn't push you off on dealing with a warranty claim via the manufacturer after just getting your av product.

Don't focus on what brand may offer a 1% improvement in reliability. As mentioned above make sure you do business with with a quality, well respected ID retailer (Crutchfeld, Amazon, AV Science, etc), local av retailer or a professional installer who will swap out the defective unit quickly. Warranties and/or no questions asked return policies exist for a reason since most issues (real or not) pop up soon after purchase with any product, the key is making sure those that those who offer them follow through on their promises

Now, back to the "much improved" thread discussing of brand reliability based on refurbs, open boxed items, used, new, etc. Apologies for the sarcasm.

My question is still unanswered: are other brands (i.e. Onkyo, Yamaha, Pioneer, etc.) having similar reliability problems on their avr products, or is it just that Denon really did have alot of problems with their 2014 product line?

 

[M Code]

In terms of reliability Yamaha is #1..
Basic reason is that they do their own design and production in Yamaha owned facilities. In the last few years the global AVR market has gotten very price competitive, resulting in certain brands including Denon and Marantz to outsource their AVRs while reducing the internal component overdesign.

I have posted this info in the past and will frequently receive PMs questioning this subject....
But as I have posted, we participate in an annual CE research study done by NPD where the sample group are some of the largest sellers and installers. In this study, unit sales of brands, models, price points and reliability are disclosed, though the final stats are confidential I have shared/posted some of the high lites on AVS. Note that we do have an extensive background in AVRs both for development, sourcing as well as in sales and custom HT installations. Plus we have traveled to the Orient frequently visiting the assembling factories.

But if one doubts the validity of some of our posts I would encourage one to visit their local AVR warranty station and discuss directly to find out which AVR brands fail more frequently and have the higher failure rates...

Just my $0.02...

 

[pase22]

Buying refurbished electronics is always a 50/50 gamble. I have never had a receiver die on me in 25 years. I have had Sony, Harmon Kardon, Onkyo (before the hdmi board fiasco) and Most recently Denon and Pioneer. I always keep my receiver on top of the entertainment unit and don't try to drive them beyond their limits. They have all been reliable for me.

 

[petetherock]

I don't think that refurb products is a good judge of a brand's reliability.
Products are returned for a variety of reasons, and the reasons can range from not fulfilled feature needs, wonky product to the missus hates it..

Anyhow, I have not had much trouble on any of the products I have bought over the years. Buy from a reputable dealer and what you pay will be reaped back in years of enjoyment and the extra amount will be amortised over the years.

 

[smurraybhm]

Well said Pete, and as predicted the #1 post from MCode appeared

So some top secret survey shows Yammie #1 , don't know any science behind the survey and/or confidence level, margin of error etc. Better yet one can claim the validity of their post by making someone else do the work - see check with your local repair shop. Never mention the 2, 3 or 4 either, must be double top secret. Thank goodness it's okay to share #1 , but without anything to back it up

MCode - Anyone keeping up on AVS knows the dislike you have for D&M, you never miss a chances to offer a few cents on that topic via any post regarding any issue with one - even refurbished I usually find your posts informative, but this subject has been paid up for a while.

By the way Yamaha makes great receivers, I just want to buy the product that best meets my needs. Two Denons and zero issues, guess I'm lucky or it must be that they were made in Japan

 

[Charles R]

From my receivers (over the years) Only a Marantz (SR7008) and Denon (AVR-X5200W) were down for the count. Getting to know the local repair shop owner (taking in several Denon receivers because of the display failure fiasco) he likes Denon quite well... they keep him rather busy.

 

[jsmiddleton4]

I've had my 3808 for YEARS. Only issue has been one of the optical ports flap fell off and it was really my fault because I didn't pull the cable out straight. Port works and a replacement flap is on.

I just had to take back a new x4200 but do not see a lot of that kind if problem on the relevant Denon forum. A few here or there but for the most part they seem to be solid.

 

[nohcho]

Well said Pete, and as predicted the #1 post from MCode appeared

So some top secret survey shows Yammie #1 , don't know any science behind the survey and/or confidence level, margin of error etc. Better yet one can claim the validity of their post by making someone else do the work - see check with your local repair shop. Never mention the 2, 3 or 4 either, must be double top secret. Thank goodness it's okay to share #1 , but without anything to back it up

MCode - Anyone keeping up on AVS knows the dislike you have for D&M, you never miss a chances to offer a few cents on that topic via any post regarding any issue with one - even refurbished I usually find your posts informative, but this subject has been paid up for a while.

By the way Yamaha makes great receivers, I just want to buy the product that best meets my needs. Two Denons and zero issues, guess I'm lucky or it must be that they were made in Japan

I think Mcode dislikes denon because of denons sales pracices, mcode stated such a few times. My take is, mcode is a custom installer and charges certain rates (probably exorbitant) for the equipment that they install whereas denon allows sales like the ones at frys, to significantly discount their products. I for one, am glad that i can find x4200 for 40% off at Frys. Not everyone can afford a custom installation. Not all of us are an upper middle class.

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

 

[M Code]

Well said Pete, and as predicted the #1 post from MCode appeared

So some top secret survey shows Yammie #1 , don't know any science behind the survey and/or confidence level, margin of error etc. Better yet one can claim the validity of their post by making someone else do the work - see check with your local repair shop. Never mention the 2, 3 or 4 either, must be double top secret. Thank goodness it's okay to share #1 , but without anything to back it up

The NPD market research study is proprietary and its participants cannot divulge the actual results as they are watermarked, however the study is available for purchase @ $25K. I have shared some of the high points with AVS audience as to simply inform them of reality. But like any statistical study one can debate the results so if they don't set well with U simply move on and ignore..

MCode - Anyone keeping up on AVS knows the dislike you have for D&M, you never miss a chances to offer a few cents on that topic via any post regarding any issue with one - even refurbished I usually find your posts informative, but this subject has been paid up for a while.

Hmmm..
More misinformation..
For the record I do not dislike the Denon and Marantz brands note that I have used their products for >25 years and still today am using a vintage Marantz 2600 in my music turntable system. Denon for many years designed/built some of the best AVRs available such as their 5800 series. They led the market with many breakthrough features and performance up until 2012. Then things changed drastically when Bain Capitol bought controlling interest, next Denon Corp. was stripped of virtually all their assets, properties sold and >175 key staff terminated. Next without their supporting design/production/marketing staff the surviving managment started to outsource their AVRs and took the pricing down to build market share with entry-level AVRs.
Unfortunately the strategy failed..
Quality deteriorated and they lost the support of their loyal, profitable CEDIA distribution. Since we have done quite abit of development/sourcing of AVRs for various audio brands including Denon, Marantz, Onkyo, Integra, Kenwood, Pioneer, Harman/Kardon, NAD, Yamaha we know this story 1st hand as we have traveled to the Orient >100 times and visited the actual Denon production factories.
In closing, I do not dislike any brand, but am simply reporting the facts
just like Joe Friday did..

Just my $0.02..

 

[80sGuy]

Denon is not what it used to be if you're asking for reliability. From my experiences with the newer AVR (post 2010) so far, at least it hasn't been. I still like the brand very much for its features but if I have to do it all over again, it would definitely be a Yamaha, as I was comparing to at the time of purchase. The newer Aventages are packed with features now - not found 4-5 years ago compared to Denon.

 

[ingramba]

My 2015 Denon AVR7200WA Flagship Receiver is made in Japan, I'm hoping that proves reliable in the long term. On the other hand, I've had issues with Onkyo (failed hdmi board) and no issues with the lower end Pioneers & Yamahas. YMMV of course!

 

[MUDCAT45]

MCode - Anyone keeping up on AVS knows the dislike you have for D&M, you never miss a chances to offer a few cents on that topic via any post regarding any issue with one - even refurbished I usually find your posts informative, but this subject has been paid up for a while.

Reminds me of your dislike for Emotiva.

Two Denons and zero issues, guess I'm lucky or it must be that they were made in Japan

Remember when a few Onkyo owners made that claim also. I am sure it was a comfort to all Onkyo owners with failed units.

 

[smurraybhm]

Reminds me of your dislike for Emotiva.

Remember when a few Onkyo owners made that claim also. I am sure it was a comfort to all Onkyo owners with failed units.

I don't dislike Emo, if I did I wouldn't own their amps which I enjoy daily. The only thing I do dislike about Emo is their tendency to over promise and under deliver, also known as missing delivery dates. As I mentioned I learned the Onkyo lesson firsthand, but give them credit for addressing their issues even if it didn't help me - twice.

Are you missing the back and forth banter with Keith v
Onkyo? Too bad he's taken leave of AVS. Now back to Denon and some fireworks. I will bow out and go back to watching some movies via the lucky it still works Denon. Happy 4th.

 

[m_power]

I don't think that refurb products is a good judge of a brand's reliability.
Products are returned for a variety of reasons, and the reasons can range from not fulfilled feature needs, wonky product to the missus hates it..

Anyhow, I have not had much trouble on any of the products I have bought over the years. Buy from a reputable dealer and what you pay will be reaped back in years of enjoyment and the extra amount will be amortised over the years.

Like I said and from the link I provided in my initial post, the problem I got from my B-stock unit was listed in that list which, I think, means that it is happening on brand new unit as well (except if the list of problems provided in the link is based only on problems that happened on B-stock unit, but I don't believe this is the case).

So my question is more related to the actual long list of problems for the 2014 units. I didn't see similar list for similar product of other brand, but this doesn't mean they don't exist, hence why I created this topic in the first place, to know what you guys think of the problems list for the Denon 2014 units.

 

[m_power]

From my receivers (over the years) Only a Marantz (SR7008) and Denon (AVR-X5200W) were down for the count. Getting to know the local repair shop owner (taking in several Denon receivers because of the display failure fiasco) he likes Denon quite well... they keep him rather busy.

That's what I understood too from reading on multiple problems. I was surprised to find so much information about the problem that I actually got with my unit (display freezing after a couple of minute of listening). It is clearly heat related, but my unit was not in a closed box and should NEVER result in a part overheating (at least at the level of db I was using, between -20 db to -10 db).

 

[80sGuy]

Speaking of which the FM radio just went kaput on my Denon. AM is working fine but somehow FM stopped working after 5 years. I'm not a heavy radio listener but do enjoy my preset stations once in a while. Bummer!

 

[Mark Ackerman]

Just for the record,
I bought a flashy / sexy Denon AVR-X-1300-W (1300W @ ~180W / 7.2 speaker channels - awesome, W for wifi and bluetooth too!)
So now 3 years and 5 months later ... this powerful machine which should last for decades has gone into a self protect mode and won't stay on for more than 2-3 seconds!. It happened randomly but rarely for all of it's SHORT life!

THEY WON"T fix it! because it is 5 months out of warranty BUT IT is a COMPLETELY DENON issue and faulty hardware! I doubt it is planned obsolescence but it sure seems to be. Every excuse under the wire ... I even brought it to a repair "Denon" specialist, and what appeared to be great Denon Customer Service from a NJ base turned out to be a nightmare!

He "Gilbert" said he couldn't fix it without Denon's approval ... 5 Customer Support people later and no joy.

For those who say it is out of warranty ... too bad too sad!
I say this!
Receivers are simple machines and historically and REASONABLE last DECADES!
It was sold to me as a high end / reliable model / and $1,000 MODEL.

1/ One cannot kill a receiver with improper speakers or wires and this is moot anyway ... I bought a pioneer and all is working perfectly as I KNOW it would again!
2/ It is a DENON faulty hardware issue PURELY! (and I begged them to prove me wrong!)
3/ I wold have been happy to fix it myself and I am a handyman who could do it - NO JOY! Take it in they said!
4/ It's self protect mode (fine and perhaps great) means it has a single issue and with 99% certainty a single output 1 inch circuit board failure ... should be a relatively easy fix!

Well I COULD go on!
Conclusion ...
Simply Denon is sexy but SUCKS!