[Branballs]

Hello everyone. I recently purchased this system from Best Buy to go with my 50'' Samsung plasma and have been absolutely loving it....




Except for one big problem! The subwoofer seems to flutter at times during movies. This is especially frequent during movies with formats like Dts Master HD. During certain moments where the bass is supposed to be really deep, I get this ugly "fluttering" noise that seems to shake the floor boards of the whole room. My main question is: is this something that might be caused by having the downfiring subwoofer on a carpet surface or does this woofer simply not handle these later audio formats? I'd be shocked to find out that a speaker system paired with a receiver capable of decoding these newer audio formats wouldn't be able to handle them. Would propping the woofer up on a piece of plywood do anything? I really love this system and I'd hate to freak out and return the woofer without trying something to fix the problem. Thanks for your time, it's greatly appreciated!

 

[JChin]

Hi Branballs, congrats on your new purchase and welcome to AVS Forum. You can get better respond and learn much more about your new AVR590 at the dedicated 1610/590 Thread . Also post your settings and sw trim.

If you haven't yet, read Batpig's Denon to English Dictionary/ Setup Guide and FAQ

 

[lalakersfan34]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Branballs /forum/post/18252933


Hello everyone. I recently purchased this system from Best Buy to go with my 50'' Samsung plasma and have been absolutely loving it....




Except for one big problem! The subwoofer seems to flutter at times during movies. This is especially frequent during movies with formats like Dts Master HD. During certain moments where the bass is supposed to be really deep, I get this ugly "fluttering" noise that seems to shake the floor boards of the whole room. My main question is: is this something that might be caused by having the downfiring subwoofer on a carpet surface or does this woofer simply not handle these later audio formats? I'd be shocked to find out that a speaker system paired with a receiver capable of decoding these newer audio formats wouldn't be able to handle them. Would propping the woofer up on a piece of plywood do anything? I really love this system and I'd hate to freak out and return the woofer without trying something to fix the problem. Thanks for your time, it's greatly appreciated!

Unfortunately I think you're meeting the limits of the subwoofer. I don't know what levels you listen at, but even subs costing more than your entire system can struggle with intense movie soundtracks at high listening levels. The Denon system is a great value system, and the speakers are quite competent for the price, but they will certainly strain under the demands of today's most dynamic soundtracks.


It sounds as though either the subwoofer driver is experiencing overexcursion or (less likely) you're experiencing port noise (too much air going through the sub's port). Either way, the only feasible solution is to turn the subwoofer down or reduce your overall listening levels. Actually, there is a third option: begin saving your pennies toward a subwoofer upgrade down the line.


For now, enjoy your system. It's awesome for the price and you should be proud of it. Just know that you're barely scratching the surface as far as bass is concerned, and it sounds like you're a prime candidate for an upgrade sometime in the future

.

 

[Branballs]



Quote:
Originally Posted by lalakersfan34 /forum/post/18253294


Unfortunately I think you're meeting the limits of the subwoofer. I don't know what levels you listen at, but even subs costing more than your entire system can struggle with intense movie soundtracks at high listening levels. The Denon system is a great value system, and the speakers are quite competent for the price, but they will certainly strain under the demands of today's most dynamic soundtracks.


It sounds as though either the subwoofer driver is experiencing overexcursion or (less likely) you're experiencing port noise (too much air going through the sub's port). Either way, the only feasible solution is to turn the subwoofer down or reduce your overall listening levels. Actually, there is a third option: begin saving your pennies toward a subwoofer upgrade down the line.


For now, enjoy your system. It's awesome for the price and you should be proud of it. Just know that you're barely scratching the surface as far as bass is concerned, and it sounds like you're a prime candidate for an upgrade sometime in the future

.

Thank you so much for the info! Really appreciate your opinion on the system as well. I'm sort of a rookie when it comes to all this stuff so as a recent college grad who's been working hard and saving up money I really wanted to treat myself to something nice. Good to hear that I made the right decision. I'll definitely give turning the little volume knob on the back even more than I have already a try. Thanks again!

 

[Branballs]

also, not sure if this is what you're looking for in terms of settings but...


channel level:

Front L : +0.5 db

Center: +1.5 db

Front R: +2.0 db

Surround R: +1.5 db

Surround L: +1.5 db

sub: +0.5 db



distance check:

Front L: 8.5 ft

Front R: 11.1 ft

center: 11 ft

sub: 13.3 ft

surround l : 9.8 ft

surround r: 9.8 ft


Crossover freq:

front: 100hz

center: 110hz

surround: 90hz

s back: none


speakers are all set to "small"


The room everything is in is rectangular and with tv in one of the corners facing a sofa diagonally (very oddly shaped/configured). Hope this info gives a little more info. Sorry for not posting it originally.

 

[lalakersfan34]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Branballs /forum/post/18255237


Thank you so much for the info! Really appreciate your opinion on the system as well. I'm sort of a rookie when it comes to all this stuff so as a recent college grad who's been working hard and saving up money I really wanted to treat myself to something nice. Good to hear that I made the right decision. I'll definitely give turning the little volume knob on the back even more than I have already a try. Thanks again!

Glad to help. We're probably about the same age - I'm 24 and will be finishing a business degree in June.


The Denon DHT-590BA is a great system at the ~$500-600 price point. Unlike most HTIBs, the Denon uses an excellent, REAL receiver. It has real power ratings, plentiful inputs, decoding for the latest audio formats, and an excellent auto-calibration system in Audyssey. The speakers are also a cut (or two) above standard fare HTIB speakers. Again, like I said earlier, be proud of your purchase. It's a very good performer for the money.


It looks as though Audyssey set up your system well. One helpful tool for setting up a system is a SPL meter (I prefer the analog meter but I don't know if Radio Shack makes the analog meter anymore). It can help measure sound levels and calibrate your system. Audyssey should do a very good job, but it's always good to be able to double check the calibrations.


I'd be curious to know if the subwoofer is calibrated to be pretty even with the speakers. Many people like the bump the subwoofer level quite a bit louder than everything else (I don't know whether you did this or not). While this can add impact, it also increases the burden on the subwoofer at any given overall listening level.


Keep in mind that while calibrating the subwoofer, there are two different factors to consider when setting its overall volume relative to the other speakers: the receiver's subwoofer trim setting and the gain knob on the subwoofer itself. The subwoofer trim determines the strength of the signal being output from the receiver to the subwoofer. A higher setting increases this signal. The subwoofer's gain knob affects how the subwoofer's amplifier amplifies the signal. For example, setting the receiver's subwoofer trim to a very low level and the subwoofer's gain knob very high can end up producing the same result as setting the receiver's subwoofer trim to a very high level and the subwoofer's gain knob very low. It is difficult to accurately calibrate a subwoofer's overall output relative to the other speakers by ear - a SPL meter is a necessity.


Another factor in subwoofer performance is the room itself. Larger rooms, or rooms with openings into other rooms, require more of the subwoofer to produce a given SPL at the listening position. However, room size is not the only factor. Bass performance is affected tremendously by the location of the subwoofer in the room and the location of the listening position. Bass is strongest near walls (and especially corners). Often, putting the subwoofer in a corner will produce much more output at the listening position than putting it out in the middle of the room somewhere. Likewise, bass is generally weakest in the middle of the room. If your seating area happens to be smack in the middle of the room, you'd be amazed at the improvement you can experience by moving seating forward or back a little bit.


Anyway, I don't intend to bore you with a bunch of calibration tips that may or may not help. If you had some pictures of the room (or a diagram) it could help get the best sound out of your system. I'm glad to help more if it's of interest to you. Best of luck. Enjoy!

 

[Branballs]

Not boring me at all my man! I appreciate anyone who takes a few minutes out of their day to help me out with a problem. Good guess on the age thing. I'm 23 and living at home (really the only choice in this crappy economy) after graduating from the University of Maryland. Figure I've been working hard enough so why not get myself a nice system to enjoy.


To be honest, I'm not really sure what the gain was set at when I was setting it up (or if that even matters). I sort of just let Audyssey do all of the work so whatever the factory settings on the sub were, that's what I was working with. The sub sounds great most of the time while watching TV, playing games, etc. I've really only heard these loud "flutters" during blu-rays. I'm a huge sports guy so I'd say 65% of what I use the TV for is watching games, so I really don't have this issue most of the time I use the system. I tend to jack the volume up pretty high during movies so I guess that could contribute to the flutter problem. If I do decide to upgrade the sub in the future would I have to run the full auto-calibration again to incorporate the new one?


Can't WAIT to have this for March Madness. From your user name I gather you're a pretty big sports guy too. Not sure if you have the system or not but what surround mode do you usually use to watch games? I've had mine on Pro Logic II Cinema and it's been pretty great. Again, thank you for all your help.

 

[lalakersfan34]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Branballs /forum/post/18256634


Not boring me at all my man! I appreciate anyone who takes a few minutes out of their day to help me out with a problem. Good guess on the age thing. I'm 23 and living at home (really the only choice in this crappy economy) after graduating from the University of Maryland. Figure I've been working hard enough so why not get myself a nice system to enjoy.

Haha, tell me about it. I'm at still at home too (things are no better here in So Cal).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Branballs /forum/post/18256634


To be honest, I'm not really sure what the gain was set at when I was setting it up (or if that even matters). I sort of just let Audyssey do all of the work so whatever the factory settings on the sub were, that's what I was working with. The sub sounds great most of the time while watching TV, playing games, etc. I've really only heard these loud "flutters" during blu-rays. I'm a huge sports guy so I'd say 65% of what I use the TV for is watching games, so I really don't have this issue most of the time I use the system. I tend to jack the volume up pretty high during movies so I guess that could contribute to the flutter problem. If I do decide to upgrade the sub in the future would I have to run the full auto-calibration again to incorporate the new one?

Yeah, it's tough to know what the correct combination of subwoofer trim and gain is without using a SPL meter to calibrate for yourself. Audyssey usually does a good job so I'd assume your sub is calibrated pretty accurately - just hard to know unless you can verify it for yourself.


The "flutters" are most likely to occur during Blu-ray soundtracks because they have the greatest dynamic range and the most bass of any source you're likely to find. Out of curiosity, are there any movies in particular that have caused problems? I only ask because there are certain movies that are notorious for taxing subs bigtime.


If you do decide to get another sub in the future or experiment with different subwoofer locations in the room, you'll need to re-run Audyssey. Sure, it takes a few minutes, but getting things dialed in as well as you can is worth the time and effort, IMO. By the way, if you're up for posting pics of your room and/or a diagram I'm up for checking out other placement options. I'm not saying your current placement is necessarily bad, but you'd be shocked at the HUGE difference placement makes in subwoofer performance. A subwoofer can deliver extremely wimpy bass in one spot, and overwhelming bass in another without even changing any settings in the receiver or sub.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Branballs /forum/post/18256634


Can't WAIT to have this for March Madness. From your user name I gather you're a pretty big sports guy too. Not sure if you have the system or not but what surround mode do you usually use to watch games? I've had mine on Pro Logic II Cinema and it's been pretty great. Again, thank you for all your help.

I do like sports, though oddly enough I'm not a big college sports fan. I'll watch college basketball but I couldn't list the rosters of the top 25 teams in the country or anything like that. More of an NBA fan here (Lakers disgusted me last night in Miami haha).


I don't have your particular system but I've played around with the different DSP settings (Pro Logic, Neo:6, etc.) on numerous receivers in the past. To be honest I generally like leaving the receiver to a setting that doesn't tamper with the incoming audio signal (if it's a stereo signal, it stays a stereo). Pro Logic II, in all its incarnations, takes an audio signal (usually stereo) and uses algorithms to produce surround sound. I've personally found that sometimes this sound great, and other times it sounds pretty bad. For sporting events it can be great because it adds atmosphere - the whole "you are there" feeling. But for other things like music, I much prefer a quality 2-channel mix. I guess being the purist that I am, I usually listen as the audio was recorded. I'd recommend experimenting with Pro Logic II, Neo:6, etc, and seeing what you like best. It's really a matter of personal preferences more than anything else.


Let me know if you want any other tips or anything. Also I'm serious about the pictures or diagram. I'd be happy to share a picture or two of my setup if you're interested. Best of luck.

 

[Branballs]

Don't feel too bad about the Lakers dropping one to the Heat...this is coming from a Wizards fan who's suffered through countless years of unbelievable crap hahaha. Congrats on last year's championship though!


I'll definitely post some pics of the room when I have some time. The fluttering occurred a lot last night while watching 2012 and a few times while watching Hurt Locker as well. It's funny though, don't seem to remember too much of it going on during District 9 a couple weeks ago. By the way, is the sw trim included in any of the settings I posted? Just trying to find where exactly it's located so I can kind of compare it to the gain.

 

[lalakersfan34]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Branballs /forum/post/18256976


Don't feel too bad about the Lakers dropping one to the Heat...this is coming from a Wizards fan who's suffered through countless years of unbelievable crap hahaha. Congrats on last year's championship though!

Yeah, we just played like crap. Kobe's the only guy who did anything offensively (though that was a nice change of pace from the last few games where he's shot horribly). But the defense was atrocious. I don't think Miami missed more than one shot in OT. Richardson killed us with his 3-pointers (anyone want to D him up???) Anyway, enough of that...


Sorry about the Wizards. Agent 0 let you guys down in a big way this year. Hope the Wizards can start rebuilding. Hey, at least it's not the Nets

.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Branballs /forum/post/18256634


I'll definitely post some pics of the room when I have some time. The fluttering occurred a lot last night while watching 2012 and a few times while watching Hurt Locker as well. It's funny though, don't seem to remember too much of it going on during District 9 a couple weeks ago.

Sounds good. Look forward to it. Let me know if you want any pics of mine...doesn't matter to me either way. I picked up 2012 on Tuesday but haven't gotten around to watching it. I'd imagine it has some pretty intense bass though, judging from the whole "disaster movie" setting. I'm curious to know how my sub will hold up as well. Maybe I'll pop it in tonight

.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Branballs /forum/post/18256634


By the way, is the sw trim included in any of the settings I posted? Just trying to find where exactly it's located so I can kind of compare it to the gain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Branballs /forum/post/18255953


also, not sure if this is what you're looking for in terms of settings but...


channel level:

Front L : +0.5 db

Center: +1.5 db

Front R: +2.0 db

Surround R: +1.5 db

Surround L: +1.5 db
sub: +0.5 db

The number in bold is the subwoofer trim setting.

 

[Elnino75]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Branballs /forum/post/18255953


also, not sure if this is what you're looking for in terms of settings but...


channel level:most of mine are similar numbers except on the negative side. Also i got some real nice 14AWG loudspeaker wire and banana plugs from monoprice

Front L : +0.5 db

Center: +1.5 db

Front R: +2.0 db

Surround R: +1.5 db

Surround L: +1.5 db

sub: +0.5 db mine is set for -9.0 db



distance check:

Front L: 8.5 ft

Front R: 11.1 ft

center: 11 ft

sub: 13.3 ft

surround l : 9.8 ft

surround r: 9.8 ft


Crossover freq:

front: 100hz

center: 110hz

surround: 90hz

s back: none


speakers are all set to "small"


The room everything is in is rectangular and with tv in one of the corners facing a sofa diagonally (very oddly shaped/configured). Hope this info gives a little more info. Sorry for not posting it originally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Branballs /forum/post/18256976


The fluttering occurred a lot last night while watching 2012 and a few times while watching Hurt Locker as well. It's funny though, don't seem to remember too much of it going on during District 9 a couple weeks ago. By the way, is the sw trim included in any of the settings I posted? Just trying to find where exactly it's located so I can kind of compare it to the gain.

I just watched 2012 this evening on the Denon DHT 590BA system. didn't have any of the fluttering. my sub is placed about 6-8 inches to the right side of the entertainment center and about a foot out from the wall. when i set it up i turned the gain knob on the sub itself to the 12 o clock position.


While watching 2012 i could feel the floor, couch et all shaking/vibrating..very cool felt it in my chest and shoot i didn't have it turned up all that loud only -22.0db

The movie that really hits hard is "9" that's one with "The" reference LFE track.

and the very first bluray we watched on the system.


Also the sound on "Gamer" was just incredilble the ricochets of bullets and blasts travel from one side of the room to the other sounds like you are right in the middle of the battle with bullets flying all around you.


my room is about 12' x 15' seating is 8-9 feet from TV. also I live on the bottom floor with cement under a very short carpet so maybe that helps absorb some of the bass from the subwoofer. no complaints from neighbors because my livingroom doesn't share any walls and i'm on the 1st floor

I'm very satisfied with this system and don't plan on upgrading any of the speakers. at this point anyways

 

[Branballs]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Elnino75 /forum/post/18269022


I just watched 2012 this evening on the Denon DHT 590BA system. didn't have any of the fluttering. my sub is placed about 6-8 inches to the right side of the entertainment center and about a foot out from the wall. when i set it up i turned the gain knob on the sub itself to the 12 o clock position.


While watching 2012 i could feel the floor, couch et all shaking/vibrating..very cool felt it in my chest and shoot i didn't have it turned up all that loud only -22.0db

The movie that really hits hard is "9" that's one with "The" reference LFE track.

and the very first bluray we watched on the system.


Also the sound on "Gamer" was just incredilble the ricochets of bullets and blasts travel from one side of the room to the other sounds like you are right in the middle of the battle with bullets flying all around you.


my room is about 12' x 15' seating is 8-9 feet from TV. also I live on the bottom floor with cement under a very short carpet so maybe that helps absorb some of the bass from the subwoofer. no complaints from neighbors because my livingroom doesn't share any walls and i'm on the 1st floor

I'm very satisfied with this system and don't plan on upgrading any of the speakers. at this point anyways

great to hear somebody else is enjoying the system. Hearing that you had no problems with 2012, however, I'm now wondering if my woofer is indeed defective. Maybe I should give putting a piece of plywood or tile under it a try? It performs well for every other component...weird that it only does this at points during blu-rays.


I'll take some pics of the room and post them up in the next couple days. Like I said, the room is quite odd so it could very well be a placement problem.

 

[LifeCarrier]

Hey guys, Denon DHT-590BA owner here.


I have a question regarding the results you get from running Audissey in this set.


According to the Boston Acoustics manual for the speakers, the frequency response for the satellites as well as the center channel is 120Hz-20kHz, the subwoofer frequency response is 40-180Hz.


Doesn't this mean that any imput signal at a frequency below 120Hz won't be outputted by the speakers because they can't handle it? How come running Audissey throws figures like 90 and 80 Hz as a recommended value?


If what I wrote above is true, shouldn't a 120Hz crossover frequency for satellites and a 120Hz for LPF for LFE (highest frequency output by the subwoofer) be optimal? This way all frequencies should be properly reproduced by the speakers right?

 

[LifeCarrier]

If anyone's interested in an answer for the questions I just asked above, I got an answer in this thread

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post18426598


or you could check batpig's guide too.