[Robonaut]

I'm looking at getting a new receiver and universal player, and one of the combinations that I'm consdering is the Denon AVR-4306 with the DVD-2930CI. I picked the DVD-2930CI because it would allow me to connect to the AVR-4306 via Denon Link, which would let me pass SACD and DVD-Audio digitally.


I was wondering, though, if I would notice any audio improvements getting the DVD-3930CI instead, or if the difference between the two models is mostly related to their analog outs and video processing?

 

[True Fan]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Robonaut /forum/post/0


I'm looking at getting a new receiver and universal player, and one of the combinations that I'm consdering is the Denon AVR-4306 with the DVD-2930CI. I picked the DVD-2930CI because it would allow me to connect to the AVR-4306 via Denon Link, which would let me pass SACD and DVD-Audio digitally.


I was wondering, though, if I would notice any audio improvements getting the DVD-3930CI instead, or if the difference between the two models is mostly related to their analog outs and video processing?

3930 has better DACs than 2930, which is important when you use analog connections (the processing done in the player).

It's almost the same as the difference between older models:

2200/2900 and 3910 (I upgraded 2200 to 3910).

Supposedly, 3930 has even better DACs than 4306, which is a great receiver (I

have one).


But if you're planning to use digital connections only (DL3 is VERY convenient), then it does not matter anymore, as the processing is done in the receiver.

 

[soundlovr]



Quote:
Originally Posted by True Fan /forum/post/0


3930 has better DACs than 2930, which is important when you use analog connections (the processing done in the player).


Supposedly, 3930 has even better DACs than 4306, which is a great receiver (I

have one).


But if you're planning to use digital connections only (DL3 is VERY convenient), then it does not matter anymore, as the processing is done in the receiver.

Last that I checked, Denon had still not released info on what DACs they used in the 2930CI, though I would agree that more costly ones would have been used in the 3930. Whether or not they're better... well, that could be another Intel vs. AMD debate. The 3930's DAC's; however, are not superior to the 4306's. They have a higher part number, yes, but the BB PCM-1791 (in the 4306) is still supposed to be a superior DAC to the BB PCM-1796 (in the 3930).


It is certainly true though that if you're using DenonLink, then the players DAC's will not be used at all and the resulting audio will be 100% dependent upon the receiver.

 

[PooperScooper]

Just because the DACs may spec better doesn't mean the player will produce "sound" that the a person will prefer over a player with "lesser" DACs. Everybody's ears and preferences are different, not to mention their gear and rooms. Although, I guess knowing the DACs spec better will problaby make you like the sound more.

larry

 

[bpowers]

Are you sure that PCM-1791 is better than the PCM-1796? The PCM-1796 is rated better in both dynamic range and signal to noise and is newer than the 1791. You may be thinking about the PCM 1792 which is rated better than both, but only slightly better than the 1796.

 

[akhter]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Robonaut /forum/post/0


I'm looking at getting a new receiver and universal player, and one of the combinations that I'm consdering is the Denon AVR-4306 with the DVD-2930CI. I picked the DVD-2930CI because it would allow me to connect to the AVR-4306 via Denon Link, which would let me pass SACD and DVD-Audio digitally.


I was wondering, though, if I would notice any audio improvements getting the DVD-3930CI instead, or if the difference between the two models is mostly related to their analog outs and video processing?

Via denonlink they should sound the same. Via analog, the 3930 should sound better than 2930 in analog AND denonlink.


Denonlink is a convenient solution, and not necessarily the best solution.

 

[soundlovr]



Quote:
Originally Posted by bpowers /forum/post/0


Are you sure that PCM-1791 is better than the PCM-1796? The PCM-1796 is rated better in both dynamic range and signal to noise and is newer than the 1791. You may be thinking about the PCM 1792 which is rated better than both, but only slightly better than the 1796.

There was a professional review of the 3930CI online that addressed the DAC issue when they hooked it up to their 4306. The reviewer went into some detail about the underlying superiorities of the 1791. If memory serves, amongst the points made was that the 1796 can only handle 2 channels (front left/front right). The other 3 channels are handled by much lower quality DACs. I've tried to search for the article but couldn't find it... it wasn't on one of my "regular" audio-reading websites. If I can relocate it, I'll post back with a link.

 

[toyz4boyz]



Quote:
Originally Posted by akhter /forum/post/0


Via denonlink they should sound the same. Via analog, the 3930 should sound better than 2930 in analog AND denonlink.

Quote:
Originally Posted by akhter /forum/post/0

Denonlink is a convenient solution, and not necessarily the best solution.

Why not necessarily the best solution? I am curious, and would appreciate your assistance.


I have considered the 2930 or 3930 with a Denon amp (used as a prepro with Bryston amps) as I could use Denon-Link and save the analog in's for a future HD-DVD or BR (or combo) player. This way, I can accomodate , Redbook CD, SACD and DVD-A, mp3's, DVD's, and both HD movie formats. (if I have any money left over after these purchases!

)


I was my understanding that the Denon and Pioneer Elite firewire solutions had inherently less jitter & clock synch problems...a distinct advantage over HDMI.


So, I would appreciate a quick explanation as to why Denon Link may be a concern.


Thanks!

 

[True Fan]



Quote:
Originally Posted by bpowers /forum/post/0


Are you sure that PCM-1791 is better than the PCM-1796? The PCM-1796 is rated better in both dynamic range and signal to noise and is newer than the 1791. You may be thinking about the PCM 1792 which is rated better than both, but only slightly better than the 1796.

By any chance, do you know which of these DACs is used in DVD 3910 ?

[I have this 4306-3910 combo]

 

[wb2fcr]

I just got a 2930CI as a replacement for my 2900. I did a quick SACD check between the two last night.


Both I and the wife agreed that the after a A/B comparison, the vocals on the 2900 were muddy and the 2930CI was "clearer". Again just a quick A/B comparison, but I was surprised at the result. I thought the 2900 was a good sounding player. I wouldn't have expected that much of a difference between it and the 2930CI.


This was through a Rotel RSP-1068, so using the DACs in the player.


I would like to do a 3930 vs 2930, just need a 3930CI.

 

[Arthur Hancock]

I've got the AVR-4306 and have had a DVD-2910 connected to it (analog) for a year now. Decided to get a DVD-3910 at a closeout price. I've done an a-b 2010 vs. 3910 and my wife and I hear a very appreciable improvement in sound quality in the 3910 (we listen almost exclusively to SACD and DVD-A). The DACs in the 4306 are the same as ones in the 2910 (B-B 1791). I connect with Bluejeans cables and I'm a very happy camper. Denon didn't change the DACs in the 3930CI--they're still the B-B 1796s.

 

[Arthur Hancock]

Sorry, that a-b was between a 2910 and a 3910.

 

[akhter]



Quote:
Originally Posted by toyz4boyz /forum/post/0

I was my understanding that the Denon and Pioneer Elite firewire solutions had inherently less jitter & clock synch problems...a distinct advantage over HDMI.

This is true. Denonlink and firewire solutions are definitely better than HDMI as until HDMI 1.3, jitter will continue to be a big issue. However, assuming the DAC in the Denon disc player is of equal or better quality than your pre/pro, analog should be the best. In theory, jitter should be even less of an issue internal to the disc player than the firewire connection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by toyz4boyz /forum/post/0

Why not necessarily the best solution? I am curious, and would appreciate your assistance.

Using a GOOD receiver or a pre/pro (with a decent analog pre section) and a GOOD disc player (either with good DACs or a transport with a good external DAC) , analog should be the best connection method (convenience issues aside). This is because you want as much separation and as little interference as possible:


1) There is no getting around the analog pre section of your receiver/pre. Your signal will have to pass through it before going to the amp.


2) There is no avoiding the digital circuitry/bass management of the denon unit. The signal will have to be preprocessed by it even to get to the digital out of the firewire. AFAIK all bassmanagement settings apply even if you use firewire.


3) If you use analog connection, most good receivers will have a DIRECT mode--on my Arcam its called Stereo Direct (even though it applies to the multi-ch inputs) but I am pretty sure the Denon has such a mode that allows you to bypass all digital circuitry and get the analog signal straight to the analog pre-amp section. On this mode, no bass-management, room-correction, dsp processing is applied, and should give you the cleanest most transparent sound.

 

[toyz4boyz]

Thanks Ahkter! Great explanation.

 

[Robonaut]



Quote:
Originally Posted by akhter /forum/post/0


2) There is no avoiding the digital circuitry/bass management of the denon unit. The signal will have to be preprocessed by it even to get to the digital out of the firewire. AFAIK all bassmanagement settings apply even if you use firewire.


3) If you use analog connection, most good receivers will have a DIRECT mode--on my Arcam its called Stereo Direct (even though it applies to the multi-ch inputs) but I am pretty sure the Denon has such a mode that allows you to bypass all digital circuitry and get the analog signal straight to the analog pre-amp section. On this mode, no bass-management, room-correction, dsp processing is applied, and should give you the cleanest most transparent sound.

According to this you can avoid a DSD to PCM conversion by using DSD direct mode on the Denons.