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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
We are looking to spend approx. $1k on a receiver. Denon and Yamaha have been recommended to us by friends and in stores. I really can't tell what is most important between the two. Both offer multi-zone, 3D, and network connectivity. I'm looking to connect a plasma HD 3D TV, Tivo, Blue Ray player, one game console, and a turntable (yes, a turntable, lol). Re speakers, we have five speakers in the main room, and we will have two in another room. I wouldn't mind adding speakers outside.


Both brands have receivers between $800-$1100 and I have read the marketing info over and over, but can't tell from reading if there really is much of a difference between the Yamaha RX A1000 or A2000, and the Denon AVR 891 and 991.


Any help would be appreciated. And I'll listen to other suggestions too.
 

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Power seems to be the order of the day when it comes to any real differences so i guess it comes down to what speakers you wish to drive and what you're looking to get from your setup also room size etc. I personally see no point spending more than you need to unless you know you'll want more performance in the future then cheaper can become a false economy. I've had nothing but good experiences with yamaha but i'm sure plenty of people would say th same about denon. Lots of reviews online about all the amps you mentioned i won't post links as again my own bias can come in through the reviews i post. Good luck and enjoy your new setup
 

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They are both good brands. As mentioned above, Denon uses Audyssey and Yamaha continues to stick with their own YPAO.


I have personally had good luck with Yamaha
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The multi-room function is something we'd definately like to have...at a minimum two zones, but for long-term three would be better for us.


Speakers, um yeah, my head is already about to explode having researched tvs, and receivers for weeks. We've checked out all of the tvs we were considering, "looked" at the receivers, but they weren't looked to the tvs, and listened to some speakers, but are a bit of loss. We haven't bought new speakers in 15 years. We have 5 now, that we'd like to replace.


Is the rule of thumb spend the same on speakers as on your receiver?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoneyPennyGoes3D /forum/post/19597123


The multi-room function is something we'd definately like to have...at a minimum two zones, but for long-term three would be better for us.


Speakers, um yeah, my head is already about to explode having researched tvs, and receivers for weeks. We've checked out all of the tvs we were considering, "looked" at the receivers, but they weren't looked to the tvs, and listened to some speakers, but are a bit of loss. We haven't bought new speakers in 15 years. We have 5 now, that we'd like to replace.


Is the rule of thumb spend the same on speakers as on your receiver?

Same boat as you. Looking at Yamaha RX-A2000 and Denon AVR-3311CI. Way too many issues with Denon so I decided to go with Yamaha. The thing is these days none of the receivers have the bi-wire connection option and my speakers (JBL) have that.

As far as the Audyssey goes, in my opinion is pointless as only the 4311CI has the 32 thing...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by G37x /forum/post/19597289


Same boat as you. Looking at Yamaha RX-A2000 and Denon AVR-3311CI. Way too many issues with Denon so I decided to go with Yamaha. The thing is these days none of the receivers have the bi-wire connection option and my speakers (JBL) have that.

As far as the Audyssey goes, in my opinion is pointless as only the 4311CI has the 32 thing...

MY older Yamaha, RX-V765 has the ability to Bi-Amp so I would be very surprised if the the newer and more feature packed Adventage series lacked that ability. That said, I'm not sure there is much of an advantage to bi-amping (and perhaps even less so with bi-wiring) off of a receiver.


The Denon 991 is a 3311CI with out the pre-outs. If you wanted to add an external amp for additional power or expandability, you'll want the pre outs. I believe that the RX-A1000 also lacks the pre-outs.


You can find really good pricing on last years models, and could probably get a Denon 4310CI or whatever the model the Yamaha RX-A3000 is replacing for under a grand. I can't speak to the Yamaha models, but I do believe that the Denon 4310 series supports up to 3 or 4 zones when you use outboard amps.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mesasone /forum/post/19597363


MY older Yamaha, RX-V765 has the ability to Bi-Amp so I would be very surprised if the the newer and more feature packed Adventage series lacked that ability. That said, I'm not sure there is much of an advantage to bi-amping (and perhaps even less so with bi-wiring) off of a receiver.


The Denon 991 is a 3311CI with out the pre-outs. If you wanted to add an external amp for additional power or expandability, you'll want the pre outs. I believe that the RX-A1000 also lacks the pre-outs.


You can find really good pricing on last years models, and could probably get a Denon 4310CI or whatever the model the Yamaha RX-A3000 is replacing for under a grand. I can't speak to the Yamaha models, but I do believe that the Denon 4310 series supports up to 3 or 4 zones when you use outboard amps.

Thank you Sir!...Well not really talking about bi-amp, unless I'm wrong. Basically my speakers have 2 set of connectors, and the old Yamaha same. However the new one I want (RX-A2000) has only one set...What to do??


Moreover, when I buy a receiver, I have no intention of zones, external amp, pre-outs etc etc...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by G37x /forum/post/19597289


As far as the Audyssey goes, in my opinion is pointless as only the 4311CI has the 32 thing...

Audyssey MultEQ is fantastic (available on all lower end Denons)

Audyssey MultEQ XT is even better (3311)

Audyssey MultEQ XT32 is the best consumer version currently available (4311)


So because only Denon's top end 4311 has XT32, all of the other versions are "pointless" in your opinion? Yeah, that makes sense.


Audyssey (MultEQ) wipes the floor with YPAO in my limited experience with both a Denon and Yamaha in my living room, but that's just me. The Yamaha went back to the store. I now have the 3311 with MultEQ XT and it's even a bit better than the 2310 I was trying out with MultEQ. I'm sure MultEQ XT32 is even better for critical listening with the right speakers, but that certainly doesn't negate how great the lower versions are.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkozlow3 /forum/post/19597386


Audyssey MultEQ is fantastic (available on all lower end Denons)

Audyssey MultEQ XT is even better (3311)

Audyssey MultEQ XT32 is the best consumer version currently available (4311)


So because only Denon's top end 4311 has XT32, all of the other versions are "pointless" in your opinion? Yeah, that makes sense.


Audyssey (MultEQ) wipes the floor with YPAO in my limited experience with both a Denon and Yamaha in my living room, but that's just me. The Yamaha went back to the store. I now have the 3311 with MultEQ XT and it's even a bit better than the 2310 I was trying out with MultEQ. I'm sure MultEQ XT32 is even better for critical listening with the right speakers, but that certainly doesn't negate how great the lower versions are.

You right, have you checked how long the Denon issues thread is?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by G37x /forum/post/19597383


Thank you Sir!...Well not really talking about bi-amp, unless I'm wrong. Basically my speakers have 2 set of connectors, and the old Yamaha same. However the new one I want (RX-A2000) has only one set...What to do??

For one thing, you may be confusing terms.


biwire - Means a different cable to the high terminal and low terminal from the same amplifier; it's pointless IMO


biamp - Means a different cable to the high terminal and low terminal each from a different amp


Biwiring is hardly necessary. If you biwire from a receiver, you may gain nothing because there's a shared power supply


All that being said, some receivers do support biamping. It used to be quite common on Yamaha receivers. I would be very surprised if the A2000 did not have the ability.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by G37x /forum/post/19597422


You right, have you checked how long the Denon issues thread is?

You should look try to articulate your points a little better so that people have some clue what you are talking about.


There is no "Denon issues thread" first of all. There are multiple owner's threads for each Denon model and I read them frequently. The only models with recent issues to speak of have been the 4311 with "blue rain" video issues and last year's 3310 & 4310 which had a bad batch of network cards.


Second, what do Denon issues have to do with your comment about XT32 being the only non "pointless" version of Audyssey? Nothing.


I wasn't singing Denon's praises - I was saying that lower end versions of Audyssey do a fantastic job by themselves, and in my experience, better than Yamaha's proprietary YPAO. Had you read my post, this would have been clear. Denon isn't the only manufacturer to use Audyssey and Audyssey is what I was talking about in my post.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkozlow3 /forum/post/19597452


You should look try to articulate your points a little better so that people have some clue what you are talking about.


There is no "Denon issues thread" first of all. There are multiple owner's threads for each Denon model and I read them frequently. The only models with recent issues to speak of have been the 4311 with "blue rain" video issues and last year's 3310 & 4310 which had a bad batch of network cards.


Second, what do Denon issues have to do with your comment about XT32 being the only non "pointless" version of Audyssey? Nothing.


I wasn't singing Denon's praises - I was saying that lower end versions of Audyssey do a fantastic job by themselves, and in my experience, better than Yamaha's proprietary YPAO. Had you read my post, this would have been clear. Denon isn't the only manufacturer to use Audyssey and Audyssey is what I was talking about in my post.

To articulate myself better, the video processing on Yamaha's is superior.

I like the sound more also, seems like various people in the music industry have the same taste. As far as calibration, don't argue with you, you probably right, Audyssey is better. However is what you calibrate also, don't you think?


I apologize I didn't want to sound harsh, really.


Best Wishes,

G37x
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman /forum/post/19597425


For one thing, you may be confusing terms.


biwire - Means a different cable to the high terminal and low terminal from the same amplifier; it's pointless IMO


biamp - Means a different cable to the high terminal and low terminal each from a different amp


Biwiring is hardly necessary. If you biwire from a receiver, you may gain nothing because there's a shared power supply


All that being said, some receivers do support biamping. It used to be quite common on Yamaha receivers. I would be very surprised if the A2000 did not have the ability.

No, I'm not. Based on what you say I shouldn't see any bad impact if I just put the links back to my speakers connectors and run only one set of cables for each speaker correct?


Thanks a bunch!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoneyPennyGoes3D /forum/post/19597606


Both receivers have their fans it seems. Any thoughts on going from the Yamaha RX A1000 to the A2000, or the Dennon AVR 891or 991?

As far as Yamaha, you bet...A2000 has superior video processing...I was going to get the A1000 until I read that. Price wise Yamaha stands better as far as the offer these days.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Thanks G37X. Have you seen the difference between the video processing of the two? This is what I find frustrating...racks of receivers, but they aren't hooked up to the tv we are interested in. Sales peeps are pushing Yamaha, but I don't know if it's because it's better or it makes their compensation better.
 

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In my case coming from a yamaha 663 to denon 3311ci, it was night and day difference. I don't have any issues with the denon, auddysay is fantastic. This denon has everything, 3d, 2 hdmi out in case you want a projector and tv, 3 zones, network capable, can be upgrade to apple airplay, hd radio and so much more.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoneyPennyGoes3D /forum/post/19597606


Both receivers have their fans it seems. Any thoughts on going from the Yamaha RX A1000 to the A2000, or the Dennon AVR 891or 991?

Yamaha:

The A2000 is better vs. the A1000 if you are looking for video processing, as it has the HQV Vida chip which may even be slightly better than the ABT 2010/2015 used in the Denon receivers (some say it is, some say it isn't - depends on the specific material). Personally, I think the HQV Vida and ABT 2010/2015 chips are both more than sufficient for anyone but you wouldn't want to step down below either of these chips if video processing is important to you. Note that for video processing to be worthwhile, you must be able to send an unprocessed signal to the receiver (i.e. "source direct" mode for SD DVD which will send the 480i signal from the disc to the receiver for processing - very few players have this capability these days). If the receiver is already receiving a deinterlaced/progressive signal (i.e. 480p, 720p, 1080p vs. 480i/1080i), then you won't see any real benefit, as the deinterlacing is where these chips do their magic.


Denon:

The 891 and 991 are hard to get good deals on because these 3 digit models are typically only sold by big box stores like Best Buy. The 2311ci and 3311ci are their direct counterparts and are sold by more retailers. Note that the 3 digit models and 4 digit models have the same basic guts but the 4 digit models always have a slightly better feature set as well - read the first page of the owner's thread of each model for details.


The 4 digit models can each be had for under $600 and under $800 respectively at *authorized* (important for warranty) online retailers if you simply call and ask for their best price (EE and 6ave in particular). Both the 2311 and 3311 have the same ABT video processing which is the same chip used in the highly regarded Oppo BDP-83 blu-ray player. Stepping up to the 3311 from the 2311 gets you Audyssey MultEQ XT which is slightly better than the regular MultEQ in the 2311. You also get networking and pre-outs if you plan on using a separate amp. Just depends on whether those extra features are important to you.


In summary, from a video processing perspective, I think you'll do just fine with the A2000 or 2311ci/3311ci. I would expect the Yamaha and Denon models to sound somewhat similar without equalization (differences here are a probably matter of personal taste) but I personally think the Audyssey system will do a better job with equalization than YPAO. Several people agree with this, and it makes sense, as Audyssey has spent millions developing these technologies so that they can be sold to manufacturers. Manufacturers like Yamaha and Pioneer which use proprietary equalization systems simply can't/don't do that.


In addition to the MultEQ equalization, Audyssey also uses DynamicEQ which allows music/movies to sound much better at low volumes. Basically, the ear is less sensitive to low frequencies and surround sound effects at lower volumes, which is why we're always cranking the volume on songs we like. Well, DynamicEQ compensates for this by dynamically boosting those low frequencies and surround effects more and more the further you get from "0" on the dial. Kind of like a "loudness" control, but a much more advanced and intelligent one. After using it for the past 2 months, I would never get another receiver without it. Music sounds much better with more body/weight/life at low volumes than it ever has in the past.


Not trying to sound like a Denon fanboy - more of an Audyssey one.
I'm just really happy with MultEQ (XT) and DynamicEQ as they have done wonders in my system (using a 3311ci in my case). Your mileage may vary of course.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkozlow3 /forum/post/0



Yamaha:

The A2000 is better vs. the A1000 if you are looking for video processing, as it has the HQV Vida chip which may even be slightly better than the ABT 2010/2015 used in the Denon receivers (some say it is, some say it isn't - depends on the specific material). Personally, I think the HQV Vida and ABT 2010/2015 chips are both more than sufficient for anyone but you wouldn't want to step down below either of these chips if video processing is important to you. Note that for video processing to be worthwhile, you must be able to send an unprocessed signal to the receiver (i.e. "source direct" mode for SD DVD which will send the 480i signal from the disc to the receiver for processing - very few players have this capability these days). If the receiver is already receiving a deinterlaced/progressive signal (i.e. 480p, 720p, 1080p vs. 480i/1080i), then you won't see any real benefit, as the deinterlacing is where these chips do their magic.


Denon:

The 891 and 991 are hard to get good deals on because these 3 digit models are typically only sold by big box stores like Best Buy. The 2311ci and 3311ci are their direct counterparts and are sold by more retailers. Note that the 3 digit models and 4 digit models have the same basic guts but the 4 digit models always have a slightly better feature set as well - read the first page of the owner's thread of each model for details.


The 4 digit models can each be had for under $600 and under $800 respectively at *authorized* (important for warranty) online retailers if you simply call and ask for their best price (EE and 6ave in particular). Both the 2311 and 3311 have the same ABT video processing which is the same chip used in the highly regarded Oppo BDP-83 blu-ray player. Stepping up to the 3311 from the 2311 gets you Audyssey MultEQ XT which is slightly better than the regular MultEQ in the 2311. You also get networking and pre-outs if you plan on using a separate amp. Just depends on whether those extra features are important to you.


In summary, from a video processing perspective, I think you'll do just fine with the A2000 or 2311ci/3311ci. I would expect the Yamaha and Denon models to sound somewhat similar without equalization (differences here are a probably matter of personal taste) but I personally think the Audyssey system will do a better job with equalization than YPAO. Several people agree with this, and it makes sense, as Audyssey has spent millions developing these technologies so that they can be sold to manufacturers. Manufacturers like Yamaha and Pioneer which use proprietary equalization systems simply can't/don't do that.


In addition to the MultEQ equalization, Audyssey also uses DynamicEQ which allows music/movies to sound much better at low volumes. Basically, the ear is less sensitive to low frequencies and surround sound effects at lower volumes, which is why we're always cranking the volume on songs we like. Well, DynamicEQ compensates for this by dynamically boosting those low frequencies and surround effects more and more the further you get from "0" on the dial. Kind of like a "loudness" control, but a much more advanced and intelligent one. After using it for the past 2 months, I would never get another receiver without it. Music sounds much better with more body/weight/life at low volumes than it ever has in the past.


Not trying to sound like a Denon fanboy - more of an Audyssey one.
I'm just really happy with MultEQ (XT) and DynamicEQ as they have done wonders in my system (using a 3311ci in my case). Your mileage may vary of course.

Good post, thanks. Although audyssey is better, yamaha is more associated with profi music, in my opinion...
 
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