[Archaea]

I've the opportunity to try out a Yamaha p3500s amp on loan from a friend while I replace my Behringer EP4000 amp. I'm curious of other people's impressions on the Yamaha pxxxxs series?


Spec Sheets
http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/downlo..._datasheet.pdf



Setup -

Onkyo TX-NR 1007 with dual sub outs.

Two JTR Captivator Pros wired at 2 ohm each, running in stereo configuration.


Initial impressions -

1) With no spl meter and just guesstimation impressions it seems that the Yamaha amp is about 4 to 6 db less powerful than the EP4000 for subwoofer duty. I used -12dB on my sub outs for the Onkyo NR-1007 for the EP4000, and last night -7.5dB to get to about the same feel on the Yamaha. I have not tried using the mic2200 or samson s-convert as of yet, this impression is just plugging the amp directly into the AVR via RCA to XLR cables first in both cases.

2) The EP4000 is LOUD, the Yamaha is silent. I did the fan mod on the EP4000 (which may have caused it's 1.5 month death???? and CERTAINTLY caused it's warranty to not be honored) The EP4000 is worthless for home theatre duty without the fan mod because it is way to loud, but the Yamaha fan is 100% silent. The fan never kicked on last night at all that I heard and the casing didn't get hot, didn't even get warm. I didn't play any louder than about -10 on my AVR, but that's still pushing the Captivator pair pretty good - everytime I checked the amp for fan noise it was silent.

3) The yamaha seems much better built. The casing is better, the dedents on the attenuators are better, the knobs feel of higher quality the back of the amp is incredibly better labled and the switches feel very much like quality components. In contrast the EP4000 and it's dip switches and attenuator knobs feel cheap by comparison. The difference isn't even the feeling of a $300 amp vs. a $500 amp. The difference is that the EP4000 feels cheap and looks cheaply made and the Yamaha looks and feels like one of the highest quality pieces of electronics I've ever put my hands on. The EP4000 has a 30hz or 50hz low cut, the P3500S has a variable low cut that stops at 25hz.

4) The EP4000 subjectively seems to put out more low hz. This impression should be taken with a grain of salt because I don't have measuring tools, but when watching a movie scene that I'm familiar with I don't feel much air movement at all, but with the EP4000 there was a lot of air movement. The low hz generates the air movement, so guaging by this the Yamaha doesn't seem to put out quite as much low hz? (scenes used for this testing, Iron Man - Jericho missle launch, Kung Foo Panda - Skadoosh). The THX clip Amazing Life sounded as good as ever however, and the last deep note shook my home theatre room as much as ever.


I'm looking for other impressions. I've read some people say the yamaha amps aren't as good as other options for strictly subwoofer duty, but who knows if that's true without actual measureable data. The friend I loaned the amp from had a samson s-convert that he also loaned me but I figured out I don't have the right cables to try it out. I need an xlr to xlr cable pair to try it. I do have the cables to try my MIC2200, but wanted to try the amp just naked configuration first as that is how I'm most familiar with the EP4000 amp. More impressions to come.


Can anyone else offer impressions on the Yamaha PxxxxS series amps for use with subwoofers?

 

[Archaea]

I called Yamaha technical support and talked to Ed.


Yamaha Customer Support – 714-522-9000


I asked Ed a couple questions. I said the manual only specifies 2ohm at 1,000 hz for wattage and not 20hz to 20,000hz like 4 and 8 ohm. He said that the Yamaha pxxxxs series amps are not made for this type of low sound reproduction duty and not made to put out high wattage at 20hz frequencies -- especially with a 2ohm load. I then asked Ed what the YS Processing actually does because the manual just minimally hints that it is an EQ setting to use with Yamaha Club speakers. He explained that the YS processing is actually a midrange cut EQ. It makes a dip at around 1700 hz on the frequency response.


As mentioned above I never saw any heat issues running a 2ohm stereo load on the amp last night for a half hour or so at -10 on the AVR and full gain on the amp, no clip lights, no noticable heat, no temperature lights, but it did sound noticably different than my EP4000 amp right out of the box with my preference being for the EP4000 amp for the subwoofer duty. The build quality is there in spades on this yamaha amp, it just doesn't sound like it is a right match for my intended purpose (home theatre subs tuned to 20hz). As I've been reading up on this amp I've found multiple reviews that this pxxxxs series amp using proprietary Yamaha power technology sounds much better than the equivalent "D" class amps and sounds as good as old school AB class amps to people who have compared them directly when assigned to highs duty, but in my short experience I'd prefer the EP4000's capability and power... Interesting...

 

[spanish68]

I have the Yamaha P7000S amp powering my DIY LMS Ultra 5400 PR sub tuned to 16hz and it rocks. Like you mentioned, no noise from the fans and quality is top notch. This amp, however, is said to work best with 4ohm load (stereo) or 8ohm load (bridged). So far, I've had no issues running it at 4ohm (bridged), however, the amp is not being asked to reproduce below 15hz bass.

 

[A9X-308]

I have 2 P7000S and a P2500S and several older P series units.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea /forum/post/20888348


Initial impressions -

1) With no spl meter and just guesstimation impressions it seems that the Yamaha amp is about 4 to 6 db less powerful than the EP4000 for subwoofer duty. I used -12dB on my sub outs for the Onkyo NR-1007 for the EP4000, and last night -7.5dB to get to about the same feel on the Yamaha. I have not tried using the mic2200 or samson s-convert as of yet, this impression is just plugging the amp directly into the AVR via RCA to XLR cables first in both cases.

Without level matching, this sort of comparison is worthless. And, no, your ears aren't good enough to do it alone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea /forum/post/20888348


2) The EP4000 is LOUD, the Yamaha is silent. I did the fan mod on the EP4000 (which may have caused it's 1.5 month death???? and CERTAINTLY caused it's warranty to not be honored) The EP4000 is worthless for home theatre duty without the fan mod because it is way to loud, but the Yamaha fan is 100% silent. The fan never kicked on last night at all that I heard and the casing didn't get hot, didn't even get warm. I didn't play any louder than about -10 on my AVR, but that's still pushing the Captivator pair pretty good - everytime I checked the amp for fan noise it was silent.

All of my ten or so Yamaha pro amps are very quiet, and even have been when I used some of them for PA duty where they were worked much harder continuously than they ever will in an HT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea /forum/post/20888348


3) The yamaha seems much better built. The casing is better, the dedents on the attenuators are better, the knobs feel of higher quality the back of the amp is incredibly better labled and the switches feel very much like quality components. In contrast the EP4000 and it's dip switches and attenuator knobs feel cheap by comparison. The difference isn't even the feeling of a $300 amp vs. a $500 amp. The difference is that the EP4000 feels cheap and looks cheaply made and the Yamaha looks and feels like one of the highest quality pieces of electronics I've ever put my hands on. The EP4000 has a 30hz or 50hz low cut, the P3500S has a variable low cut that stops at 25hz.

They are very well made and reliable as hell. I've never managed to break one nor has one eer let me down which is why at the end of the time when I had PA gear, all the amps were Yamaha.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea /forum/post/20888348


I'm looking for other impressions. I've read some people say the yamaha amps aren't as good as other options for strictly subwoofer duty, but who knows if that's true without actual measureable data.

I have not measured any of my new P-S series amps, but the older units all exceeded spec, so I don't doubt these will too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea /forum/post/20888348


Can anyone else offer impressions on the Yamaha PxxxxS series amps for use with subwoofers?

They are great amps, but for sheer watts/$ they cannot compete with the EP's.


I've used one of my P7000S to run my subs at home and it was fine.


I don't do subjective descriptions because I find them uniformative and pointless.

 

[Sousa86]

Same here. I have the 2500 running my energy 70's. Before they were running off my avr amps. There is definitely a difference in sound for the better. I notice i can turn it louder without it blarring and there is more of a presence when listening to demanding soundtraks. Lets say Hulk and Terminator for movies and various music traks. Glad i got this amp and plan to add more for the center and surrounds eventually. Need to find so sweet deals tho ;-)

 

[johnplayerson]

I have no experience with the amp. My knowledge of SMPS amps is that the power supply will not last long. As the yamaha tech has pointed out, not made for much at or under 20 hz. This is due to the fact SMPS units do not have a filter cap system designed for output reserves. The caps are alternately designed for noise filtering of which SMPS units are notorious for creating.

2 ohm loading or 4 ohm bridge loading is simply a shortcut for cheap skates that do not want to do things the more expensive alternative way, to get more power. Even Archea, has blown his ep 4000 along with a few others and wonder why? No such thing as a two ohm stable amplifier. They will die eventually no matter what brand.

It would make sense the behringer unit would be better than the yamaha 3500. It has 100000 uf of caps including both channels, which is very ample storage for bass duties based on the behringer output into an 8 ohm load. Combined with the standard toriodal old school power supply, one is less likely to suffer power supply droop on long notes as SMPS units will. You definitely will be missing those long 5 second long humming bass shaker notes with a SMPS unit good for one second before the power output tanks!! The yamahas are rated for 22 millisecond burst as most SMPS units are rated.

I was further surprised by looking at the utube repair of one of these Yamaha amps to find how cheaply they are made. Lots of cheap capacitors that will not last. Based on how much work this do it yourself fixer put in on the amp, I would not want to see a repair bill from a tech, May as well repurchase your amplifier.

While many like the performance of these yamaha amps for general 20 to 20 k duty, of which they do an excellent job, I am surprised to see how many cheap components they installed in these units. The power supply went first as can be seen in this fix it video which is as I would expect!.

 

[Archaea]

johnplayerson, you are a big advocate of the Cerwin Vega CV-5000 amps right? Is it still your price to performance darling?

 

[TCARCIO]

I run 2 ep4000's for my sub and my mains. I was thinking about replacing the one for my mains with the Yammy 5000 but that video and the OP's post doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling about doing that. I was also thinking about going to the CV amps also so I will need to get more info on those before I make my decision.

 

[kingpin111]

All my reading said to stay away from the Yammies for sub duty but they were highly praised for mid and high duty like you mentioned.
It's a shame they use such poor quality components. They are not the cheapest amps to get. At least not around here.
Kinda happy I went a different way now.

 

[johnplayerson]

WELL i do own 4 of them, and Yes they are the best Bargain on the planet, US buyers can have them for 799 each delivered, I was lucky enough to get four shipped at a cost of 850.00 each final landed cost. I also own 4 of the 3200 and 5 of the 2800. I am still i big fan of old school for high reliability. As far as the HPA LIne is concerned they are better bang for the buck than the behringer. Just try a samson sx 3200 and see what happens never mind a cv 5000. The samson is 473 at b and h right now, and they may be getting discontinued in favor of the new SXD line.

ONe good buy I could not get was the crown x4000, which is a crown xli 3500 with silver plate. At 299.00 each i would have taken four of them , but they were not shipping to Canada. Would have take 4 immediately!!!! Like what a deal lol.

Old school beats SMPS amps all the way!! in both performance and reliability.

I had high regard for the Yamaha P series as a Smps amplifier, but after seeing this repairi video, would not touch them with a ten foot pole, Yamaha really went downhill. Probably would keep buying more HPA series amps regardless.


http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1489766-samson-sx-3200-a.html

 

[A9X-308]

Old school beats SMPS amps all the way!! in both performance and reliability.

I still get a lot of audio gear through my workshop, and my experience would disagree. In the network of gear I control for work, I have thousands of SMPS operating in hot dirty environments 24/7 and I get maybe 10 failures a year.

I had high regard for the Yamaha P series as a Smps amplifier, but after seeing this repairi video, would not touch them with a ten foot pole, Yamaha really went downhill.

Wow, you've really drawn a long bow based on that video. Big deal, the SMPS failed, but nowhere in the video does he give an explanation as to why. It may have been abused, overheated due to inadequate cooling or it may have just been a case of bad luck. It was not a difficult repair and all the parts are easy to obtain and not that expensive.

To say Yamaha amps are bad based on that video is stupid and is no more reasonable than saying all BMWs are rubbish because my friend's M5 ate an engine management unit only a few weeks after he bought it new. I also read pro audio forums and seldom read of Yamaha amps failing; if they had a propensity for it, that fact would be well known. My own P7000S's were used a lot harder than they ever will be at home when I had my PA, and I never experienced any issues with them.

 

[TCARCIO]

Does anyone have any experience with the Yammy p-series compared to the QSC GX series? I was thinking about a GX-5 for my mains.

 

[maintrain]

I still get a lot of audio gear through my workshop, and my experience would disagree. In the network of gear I control for work, I have thousands of SMPS operating in hot dirty environments 24/7 and I get maybe 10 failures a year.

Wow, you've really drawn a long bow based on that video. Big deal, the SMPS failed, but nowhere in the video does he give an explanation as to why. It may have been abused, overheated due to inadequate cooling or it may have just been a case of bad luck. It was not a difficult repair and all the parts are easy to obtain and not that expensive.

To say Yamaha amps are bad based on that video is stupid and is no more reasonable than saying all BMWs are rubbish because my friend's M5 ate an engine management unit only a few weeks after he bought it new. I also read pro audio forums and seldom read of Yamaha amps failing; if they had a propensity for it, that fact would be well known. My own P7000S's were used a lot harder than they ever will be at home when I had my PA, and I never experienced any issues with them.

+1000 on this.

My Yamaha's (p2500 and p7000s) have been nothing but quiet and reliable for the past 3 years. I recently replaced my TC3000 with a LMS 5400 15" in my passive radiator sub and that 7000 has yet to break a sweat. I literally have to beat on it to even get the fans to turn at low speeds. Would not hesitate to recommend these amps to anyone.

 

[kingpin111]

I still get a lot of audio gear through my workshop, and my experience would disagree. In the network of gear I control for work, I have thousands of SMPS operating in hot dirty environments 24/7 and I get maybe 10 failures a year.

Wow, you've really drawn a long bow based on that video. Big deal, the SMPS failed, but nowhere in the video does he give an explanation as to why. It may have been abused, overheated due to inadequate cooling or it may have just been a case of bad luck. It was not a difficult repair and all the parts are easy to obtain and not that expensive.

To say Yamaha amps are bad based on that video is stupid and is no more reasonable than saying all BMWs are rubbish because my friend's M5 ate an engine management unit only a few weeks after he bought it new. I also read pro audio forums and seldom read of Yamaha amps failing; if they had a propensity for it, that fact would be well known. My own P7000S's were used a lot harder than they ever will be at home when I had my PA, and I never experienced any issues with them.

I'm a little guilty of thinking this based on the video which looking back at it I think I was wrong.
I think if I hadn't gone the way I did I still would go out and buy the Yamaha's.
There is just too much positive feedback out there to think otherwise.

Let's not forget the internet was made to ***** and complain.

 

[always-ultra]

Kinda happy I went a different way now.

What would you use instead of a p2500s (bridged) if you'd need 600W bass?

 

[Manic1!]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtQPVlFwZ9o


2 ohm loading or 4 ohm bridge loading is simply a shortcut for cheap skates that do not want to do things the more expensive alternative way, to get more power. Even Archea, has blown his ep 4000 along with a few others and wonder why? No such thing as a two ohm stable amplifier. They will die eventually no matter what brand.

Are you talking all amps or just pro audio amps?

 

[Creampuff]

WELL i do own 4 of them, and Yes they are the best Bargain on the planet, US buyers can have them for 799 each delivered, I was lucky enough to get four shipped at a cost of 850.00 each final landed cost. I also own 4 of the 3200 and 5 of the 2800. I am still i big fan of old school for high reliability. As far as the HPA LIne is concerned they are better bang for the buck than the behringer. Just try a samson sx 3200 and see what happens never mind a cv 5000. The samson is 473 at b and h right now, and they may be getting discontinued in favor of the new SXD line.

ONe good buy I could not get was the crown x4000, which is a crown xli 3500 with silver plate. At 299.00 each i would have taken four of them , but they were not shipping to Canada. Would have take 4 immediately!!!! Like what a deal lol.

Old school beats SMPS amps all the way!! in both performance and reliability.

I had high regard for the Yamaha P series as a Smps amplifier, but after seeing this repairi video, would not touch them with a ten foot pole, Yamaha really went downhill. Probably would keep buying more HPA series amps regardless.


http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1489766-samson-sx-3200-a.html

You consider this $800 Yamaha pro-amp the best bargain on the planet?? For the love of Pete it is just a typical moderate to low-ish powered amplifier that is massively overpriced, especially considering that you can get a Behringer iNuke3000dsp for less than a 1/3 of the price, and get the built in ability to DSP/EQ all you could ever dream of, plus more current/watts than the Yamaha!


Don't get me wrong, its a good amp, but when you can't even use it for subwoofer duty, and you can get an iNuke3000dsp at less than 1/3 of the price, it just isn't a bargain at all.

 

[N8DOGG]

I had a p3500 as my second amp. I'll be honest, It was ummm..... pretty crappy IMO lol. It would constantly shut down because of heat, it was a huge pain in the butt. I was running 2 IXL's off of it 2 ohm an watched at reference. I had though it was defective and got another one only to have it do the same thing. I wanted it because of noise of my 1 ep I had but got my money back and bought an ep2500 and eventually bought 8 of them. Not and issue with any of them and they are all still going at different peoples places.

IMO there is a good reason the ep2500/4000 is easily the most popular amp in the DIY crowd. Lots of power for cheap and 2 ohm stable.

I'm pretty sure JP was talking about his CV5000's as the best bargin, not the yammys.... Even thats a big stretch, I had one and also a marathon 5050, they were indeed good amps but with a IRP2, Crests, inuke6000's and Clones floating around, I'd take any of them over the CV in a heartbeat. The CV is a great amp but it's big, heavy and inefficient vs whats on the market now.

 

[kingpin111]

I had a p3500 as my second amp. I'll be honest, It was ummm..... pretty crappy IMO lol. It would constantly shut down because of heat, it was a huge pain in the butt. I was running 2 IXL's off of it 2 ohm an watched at reference. I had though it was defective and got another one only to have it do the same thing. I wanted it because of noise of my 1 ep I had but got my money back and bought an ep2500 and eventually bought 8 of them. Not and issue with any of them and they are all still going at different peoples places.

IMO there is a good reason the ep2500/4000 is easily the most popular amp in the DIY crowd. Lots of power for cheap and 2 ohm stable.

I'm pretty sure JP was talking about his CV5000's as the best bargin, not the yammys.... Even thats a big stretch, I had one and also a marathon 5050, they were indeed good amps but with a IRP2, Crests, inuke6000's and Clones floating around, I'd take any of them over the CV in a heartbeat. The CV is a great amp but it's big, heavy and inefficient vs whats on the market now.

There is a reason why they aren't preferred for subs and you found it. LOL
On the other hand they come highly recommended on the pro boards as a mid priced system for mids and high's that are running 4ohms our plus.

I'd take the ep4000 before I touch any of the inukes though. The inukes give me the hibby gibbies.

 

[N8DOGG]

There is a reason why they aren't preferred for subs and you found it. LOL
On the other hand they come highly recommended on the pro boards as a mid priced system for mids and high's that are running 4ohms our plus.

I'd take the ep4000 before I touch any of the inukes though. The inukes give me the hibby gibbies.

LOL!!!! Although I've had a good experience with Inukes, I've since sold my 2 x 6000's off. I loved the ep2500/4000's, they were rock solid for me, 4 had fan mods, 4 didn't.
I bet you're right about the yammys, easier loads and no fan noise = a great option... I'm lucky that all my amps are in another room, so fan noise is moot in my case now.