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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,


Here's some of the details on the service remote I received from Sampo. (They refer to it as the "factory remote.") I'm hoping that some of you experts can help me decipher some of the menu items and perhaps give a short explanation of what some of the settings do. I bought the remote for my ISF guy to use, but I might wish to play around with the geometry controls a bit...


Physically, the remote is a nondescript black unit that has a subset of the buttons found on the user remote. Up next to the 'Power' button is a hole... The button itself has been drilled out, exposing the switch below. I assume this is to prevent you from accidentally pressing this button. One can use a key or pen-cap to press it. It's not labeled, but let's call it the "service" button.


When you press the service button, up pops a menu displayed with red text. It looks a little something like this:


1. W-BALANCE ADJ.

2. GEOMETRY ADJ.

3. CHECK

4. AUTO RUN

5. MTS SET

6. MMM SET


I was sternly warned by Sampo don't to venture into menu items 3 through 6, and I have followed that advice. The first two items are obviously related to white balance and geometry, respectively.


Before I go any further, let me list the "normal" user parameters that can be made when using the YPrPb inputs. Some of these settings are repeated in the service menu. Here's the normal list, with my translation in [brackets]. Feel free to correct me on any of these:


All settings can be adjusted in the range (1-255)


BRIGHT [brightness, black-level]

CONTRAST [white level]

V-SIZE [vertical size]

V-CENTER [moves the image vertically]

H-WIDTH [horizontal width]

H-PHASE [moves the image horizontally]

PINCUSHION [you know, pincushion]

TRAPEZOID [used to make the sides of image parallel to each other]

PARALLELOGRAM [makes the image 'lean' to one side or the other]

ROTATION [tilts the image]

R-GAIN [red gain, factory set to 212]

G-GAIN [green gain, set to 166]

B-GAIN [blue gain, set to 159]

BASS

TREBLE

BALANCE [audio right/left balance]

COLOR [amount of color, saturation?]

TINT [makes image reddish or greenish]

SHARPNESS


As I said, all of the above can be adjusted when viewing the YPrPb inputs. When viewing the RGB input, you lose the three "gain" parameters, and when viewing any of the non-progressive inputs you lose *all* the geometry parameters.


Let's enter the W-BALANCE ADJ. service menu and see if we can figure out what's what. I believe that all the service menu parameters are 'global'. That is, they don't change depending on which input is selected. Here we go:


YNR [Luminence noise reduction???] <initially set to '1'>


(I have no idea what this is. Possible values are '1' and '2')


R-BLLV [Red-Black level?] <1>

G-BLLV [Green-Black level?] <80>

B-BLLV [Blue-Black level?] <53>


(I assume these are the "cut" parameters that allow you to adjust the color of the dark greys and blacks.)


R-GAIN [red gain] <same as non-progressive user setting>

G-GAIN [green gain] <ditto>

B-GAIN [blue gain] <ditto>


(These allow you to adjust the color of white and light greys? These settings mirror those in the normal user settings. In particular, they match the values you see when viewing any of the composite, s-video, or YCrCb inputs. I assume they *don't* affect the "gain" on the RGB or YPrPb inputs. Perhaps we just use the user parameters in those cases. If so, why include these? Odd.)


SUB-CONT-AV [sub-contrast AV?]

SUB-CONT-RGB

SUB-COLOR-AV

S-TINT-AV [sub-tint???]

S-TINT-YCBCR

S-TINT-YPBPR


Ok, here's a bunch of "sub" settings. I've never heard them explained, but I got the impression that they control a "baseline" that the user-controls then offset from. But perhaps this is incorrect.


It's interesting that there are three tint parameters, two contrast, but only one color. I don't know what to make of that. Various degrees of "global-ness"? I love to have this explained to me.


That's it for the white-balance menu. I think I'll hold off on the geometry menu for now. It's quite a bit bigger and I want to determine if anyone is interested in this stuff befor I type it all up! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


-Dave



 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Wow, what a huge waste of time this post turned out to be, huh? http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif Five months and not one response. Glad I didn't put any more effort into it.


Still wondering if anyone has gotten a copy of the service manual for this set. I love to get it calibrated some time. Have any techs in the SF Bay Area "done" one of these sets yet?


BTW, I see that some folks have had quite a bit of trouble with this set. Sorry to hear that. I'm still very very happy with mine. I think I was the first to report the 'vertical bar' issue, but all in all it's a fantastic and trouble free set.


-Dave
 

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Well I didn't even own my Sampo back in February when you

first posted.


But I did order the "service remote" in April when I bought

my set, after I discovered I could otherwise not adjust

the geometry settings for the AV inputs. Despite what

Sampo factory engineers might think, I felt very strongly

that my AV geometry settings were way wrong.


And that set of functions... geometry... is all I have

availed myself of with the "service remote". I have not

even looked at the white balance function, nor would I

have any idea how I should adjust anything... if at all.

Geometry, on the other hand, is plainly intuitive.


I'm sending you via email my settings, both those from the

"user remote" for YPbPr and AV, as well as those from the

"service remote".


But again, I've never even entered the white balance menu.
 

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I'm not sure how I missed this thread and I really hope it's not too late to get some help. I have had my set for almost a year and as is normal, the picture has gotten progressively darker. However, since this set had a dark picture to begin with and possibly an accelerated light depreciation rate my set is now so dark I that it's like to torture to watch


I contacted Sampo and they are supposed to be sending a technician to replace something which will hopefully help me in the short term but unless my set is defective I would prefer to learn how to adjust the settings properly since I have already gone through the burn in period. I don't have a service remote but can access the menu without it and then use the standard remote to adjust the settings.


The only input I currently use is RGB, although I have at least tried all of the other inputs. I run all of my components through the Iscan Pro linedoubler which outputs to RGB. In addition to the color problems I have also had problems with the geometry. This has gotten worse as well althou this could aslo have been cause by the caused by excessive conrast and brightness settings since the factory presets had contrast set to the max on all inputs.


I am very gratefull to have found this thread and would appreciate any further help with any of the service menu settings or other tips. I will also post my settings if anyone is interested. I have geometry which I haven't changed and white balance which I have adjusted and you would only want the numbers as reference for what to avoid.


Please post here and I will receive notification. Thanks.
 

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I got my set in November, and I, too, have a service remote. After hunting and pecking for a couple of days, I found out the following...


1. Settings in some modes affect other video inputs as well. For example, setting the contrast, brightness, color, tint, etc in the tuner input will carry over to AV1, AV2, AV3, and interlaced component inputs, but not RGB or YPbPa.


2. The same goes for the geometry settings. That is, setting horizontal size in one mode affects in in the above-mentioned video inputs.


3. There are a set of adjustments that affect how the picture looks in 4:3 mode. They are adjustments above and beyond the standard (16:9) adjustments.


I have made a table that shows these relationships, based on my tweaks. It shows which adjustments are unique, and which ones are shared. If you are interested, let me know.


Ron


PS - I don't work for Sampo, so these are only one person's observations, not official recommendations from the manufacturer.
 

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Hi Ron,

My new Sampo should be arriving from UBid this week. I would really appreciate having a look at your table. Please send me a private message.


thanks,

Mark H
 

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Well this is very odd.

'Spent about an hour this afternoon in the Sampo service menu looking to see if I could tighten up the geometry and convergence especially for the RGB input. Since I don't have a Sampo service remote, here is my method so far.


1) Get Sampo running AVIA widescreen enhanced crosshatch pattern (the medium brightness one), then use the Sampo regular menu to decrease the vertical and horizontal size a bit so that I can clearly see the full pattern.

2) Pull the plug on the Sampo then power it backup holding down the front panel power button. This brings up the service menu on top of the Avia crosshatch.

3) Scroll thru the geometry adjustments and see how they work and try to correct for the slightly wavy left and right edges and 1/2" dip in the upper edge.

4) Turn off the Sampo with the normal power button then turn it back on. (Only way I know of to get back out of the service menu)


When I first see the menu it said

M: user 4 FH: 44KHz FV: 60Hz


I got a sense of how all the adjustments work, but, ended up keeping them at the default values.

There didn't seem to be any way to correct the waviness. Thats as good as it gets. There didn't appear to be any way to correct for the dip at the top. What is strange is that there is:

H- Corner STD = 128 (affects all 4 corners at once but only horizontally)

and

H- PIN - Balance = 128 (affects the balance of pincushioning horizontally from left to right)

but, there are no corresponding vertical adjustments which would allow for the correction of the top dip....


As Dave pointed out, these adjustments on one input appear to interact with other input adjustments. When I got out of this menu having played with the adjustment ranges but left them at the defaults, I was surprised to find that when I switched to AV3 where I have my VCR connected, the image was no longer rectangular. I had to go into the service menu on this input and square it up again with the

Trape STD

and

H-Corner Std controls.


'Guess I'm used to my Sony 1270Q PJ with much more control over the geometry and convergence. I keep forgetting that this is a single tube and so convergence cannot be adjusted...


So, am I blazing new ground here, or have other Sampo owners got knowledge to share???


Mark H
 

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Please Mr. moderator, is there any chance that this old resurrected thread could get moved over to the new Direct View forum where it might be seen by those who are interested.


Huh? :cool:


Can it? :)


Huh? :D
 

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WhooHooo! Now I'm a "senior member". Based on going over 200 posts I guess.


Well, by cracky, you younguns betta watch out now...


:p
 

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I've had my Sampo about a month now and just got a DISH 6000. A couple questions:

- I notice some rainbow effects around small white text at times. Is this a convergence problem the notch filter or what?

- On my DISH 6000, I notice the component input to the TV is much brighter than the RGB input. The RGB input seems more focused (maybe just due to the lower brightness). Does this seem normal? Isn't the RGB supposed to be the better connection?


Thanks,

Foos
 

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Hi Foos,


Having just got my Sampo as well, I don't claim to be an expert. At this point I don't have anything that outputs component signal, so, I use the composite, S-video and RGB connectors only. RGB is definitely the brightest of these. Can't say I've noticed the rainbow effect on text or other white objects. My white cursor does leave a trace around a black screen when using the HTPC.


If the moderators will just move this thread over to the directview forum maybe can get more Sampo owners attention....


Mark Haskins
 

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Sampo SME-34WHD5 settings service menu


It would be great if this thread would be moved somewhere that might make it easier to find since in addition to the information on the thread itself those who have posted on it have helped me tremendously off the boards as well.


While it's not the easiest thread to find the more we post to it the easier it will become for others to find in the future. Until they move the thread, which I hope they will do soon, if those of us who post here put common search keywords in every post that should serve as a short-term fix.


As for the specific questions and comments regarding the settings in the service menu and the user menus I had compiled several months of extensive research from other Sampo owners, Sampo tech and many other sources which I will hopefully be able to share soon. Unfortunately all the fruits of my labor currently reside in my other computer which crashed in mid-March. I'm slowly pulling the survivors from the wreckage and will gleefully post when I have recovered enough to be of use to anyone.


Since my only access to my Sampo files is through DOS and I'm a bit rusty there so for those of you who have recently posted to this thread I would suggested that you contact the others who have posted here. DSperber, DaveNagy and RIppolito all helped me a great deal and have continued to update me through e-mail with new information. If you haven't contacted them already I'd suggest you do so since they have a great deal of knowledge to offer and may be able to help resolve any specific problems you have incurred.


As for myself, please don't hesitate to contact me with any questions. I will do my best to help in any way I can. However, a substantial amount of what I learned which learned came from technical research, mainly on color and light and the scientific properties and formulas used to accurately produce images on CRT monitors without access to my notes I don't feel that I can be of much help. I'm no math whiz and really struggled to understand a lot of what I studied so attempting to explain it from memory would be difficult to impossible for me (if only they had told me that there really was a practical reason to study algebra and calculus...).


One thing I will tell you is that all of my research paid off and that the Sampo is truly an amazing set. I purchased my set less than a month after it was released in the US and had just about every problem imaginable. There were extended periods of time where I simply couldn't stand to turn it on and if not for the fact that I was physical incapable I would probably have hurled out the window of my apartment. Thanks to the help of other AVS members as well as Sampo (they replaced the chassis on my set) and my own perseverance in attaining the picture described in early reviews I can now say that I love this set.


I'm extraordinarily anal but since you don't know me I'll provide you with an outside opinion of the set from someone who's seen quite a few HD models. The Time Warner technician came to install my HDTV cable box a few weeks ago and he was impressed. He told me that on every one of the installations he'd done this was the first set that he'd seen which was capable of displaying all of the channel through the component output. This is a new service in New York and hasn't been widely installed but the interesting thing is that he said on all of the installations the customers were extremely knowledgeable and sometimes knew more than he did but that all of the other sets required the use of either an S-video or composite cable in addition to the component cable and required that the user change inputs to watch an HD station.


Aside from the minor inconvenience of changing inputs, it's potentially an additional cost if you are like me and use cables other than those provided by Time Warner, particularly considering that we currently only get 4 stations in HD.


This set is not the easiest to configure and therefore not for everyone but for those seeking perfection and willing to work to acheive it, the Sampo is for you.
 

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Mark,

I hooked my PC up through the RGB and it seems bright as well. For some reason, it seems the output of the DISH 6000 RGB is much darker than the Component.


I read somewhere that the Sampo has SVM disabled through the RGB, but it's enabled through the Component. Does anyone know if this is the case?


-Foos
 

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Hi zenjen and Foos,


I just sent a PM to DaveNagy but I see that he hasn't posted since his posts in this thread last July... If anyone has an email address for him maybe they could alert him that this old thread has come back alive.


Thanks for the encouragement about the Sampo. I have been on a rollercoaster with it now for two weeks. On the low end, I had to switch back to my old Proton 27" for the NBA playoffs recorded on the VCR as they just didn't look good on the Sampo. On a more positive note, great DVD transfers like Gladiator look fantastic at 1280x720p from my Radeon equipped HTPC and Theatertek player. At the high end I have finally a glimpse of the "window" effect on some OTA broadcasts by the local PBS affiliate WGBH.


Its good to know that others have blazed this trail and that there are miles to go in tuning this already good set.


Mark H
 

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Mark,


I have also built a htpc for use with the Sampo, and I'm interested in a couple of things you said...


1. How are you displaying 1280 x 720p from your htpc? Are you using RGB? If so, how did you get it beyond 1024 x 768?


2. Do you notice a difference between 1024 x 768 and 1280 x 720p, coming out of the TheaterTek player?


3. Here is the biggie - how did you set up the geometry on whatever input you are using? I am using RGB from my htpc to the set, and when I use TheaterTek, you can adjust width and height via dragging the blue edges they put around a DVD image. But, those settings are valid only for the geometry in the set at the time, right? So, if after you set up the DVD player output, you use the service menu and adjust the geometry, wouldn't you have to go back and redo the DVD player output again? At the end of all this, perhaps it doesn't matter, as long as the picture looks right.


4. Did you get the remote with the set that has individual buttons for all the inputs? When I got mine last November, the only way you could move from input to input was with an 'input up' button, and since this set changes inputs very slowly, it took forever. I ordered one from Sampo, and it made a world of difference. If interested, let me know, and I'll tell you how to order one.


5. How is your HD input coming into the set? Do you have a STB that outputs component? RGB?


I am hoping that the others on this thread will reply to some or all of these so we can share experiences, and most of all, learn.


Ron
 

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Hi Ron,


There is a host of info already on the Sampo here if you search titles for "Sampo".


1) Yes, RGB with a 20' cable direct from Radeon card to Sampo. For details on getting to 1280x720p check here: 1280x720


2)Much better looking for movies mostly because it is a 16x9 rez not a 4x3 rez


3) I didn't adjust the picture size with TheaterTek. I just got the windows desktop filling the screen with the Sampo normal menu size controls then Theatertek fills the screen once the desktop is set correctly


4) My remote has the individual buttons


5) My RCA DTC100 STB outputs RGB. I switch cables on the one RGB input for the Sampo back and forth between HTPC and STB. I don't use the component input yet.


Mark H
 

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Delicious2

Quote:
Originally posted by Delicious2



I just sent a PM to DaveNagy but I see that he hasn't posted since his posts in this thread last July... If anyone has an email address for him maybe they could alert him that this old thread has come back alive.

Sorry but all the e-mail addresses I had are with everything else in my other computer. I too sent him a PM when I found this thread and he did reply so hopefully he'll see one way or another that his time was not wasted by starting this thread.


Glad to see that you and Ron have added a lot of information here. Ron has detailed spreadsheets which he may already have sent you and if not ask him to because they contain some very interesting and helpful information.


Ron if you read this post, I'd really appreciate it if you could send me your spreadsheets again since I have hard copies of some of the sheets as well as some with my numbers but the only complete copy is in my other computer.


One thing which I found interesting was that the factory settings noted for your set were different than mine with both my original chassis as well as the replacement. As it's been noted, all of the inputs share certain settings. When I was dealing with the rep at Sampo to arrange for my chassis replacement I asked him about this issue and if there was any way to avoid it.


I had originally thought that it might be possible to isolate the settings for the individual inputs if I could program a remote to go directly from one input to another without scrolling through them all. At the time I was using only the RGB input since I had all of my components plugged into my Iscan linedoubler which outputs RGB or component using a breakout cable. He explained that this would not be a solution since all of the components share a common memory space for the settings.


My original set had been extremely dark which is why I had done so much research on color space. Since the CRT experts all seem to be in agreement that the lower the Contrast setting the better. Since the Sampo ships with the contrast setting at the highest level in both the user and service menus I asked the Sampo tech representative about this and if he could explain just what the service menu level for contrast should be. His answer was just that I shouldn't get "too hung up on the numbers" and just set everything according to what I thought "looked good".


I later read something about the relationship between contrast and linescan. On a hunch that this might be part of my problem I made some adjustments and sure discovered that the contrast level in the service menu is extremely important and must be greater than the resolution of the lowest res input to the set. The color levels in the service menu can be adjusted to according to your personal liking though.


Daryl, if you read this post, which I hope you will, I think you'll appreciate this information. Now you needn't feel as if you need to apologize for your preference for a high contrast setting:)


The geometry on the set is also shipped from the factory with it's settings based on a standard mathematical equation used to calculate the proportions for 4:3 mode and 16:9. Being mathematically challenged, I can't even attempt to provide the formula but hopefully I'll be able to retrieve it from my other computer.
 

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Mark,

When I first got my Sampo one of the first things I did was hook up my PC and play Gladiator. Using Powerstrip, I setup my Nvida Geforce2 card to output 720p. I could not believe what I was seing...ABSOLUTELY stunning! The fight scene with the lions is awesome. Razor sharp, great colors/fleshtones, etc.


Now I'm trying to decide if I should go with a HTPC for DVD viewing or buy a second DVD player. Any comments? My only reservation with a HTPC right now is that with the free SW DVD player that came with my DVD drive...I've noticed some stuttering on DVD's during lots of motion. I'm hoping that swithching to WinDVD or TT will fix this. Have you had luck with this issue on your HTPC? I've read that others have seen similar problems, but others are happy. I have a free trial version of WinDVD that I think I'll try out. If I can get past the stuttering issue, I'm planning on building a dedicated HTPC...rather than unplugging and moving my current PC from the office to the living room.


-Foos
 

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Foos-man,


Did you have any trouble displaying 720p through the RGB cable? When I stay with 800 x 600 or 1024 x 768, I can display everything, no problem (BTW, I use TheaterTek as my DVD player, and it does a great job). When I switch to 1280 x 720p, the raster shrinks way down, perhaps 40%. Did this happen to you? Is it as simple as stretching the display via the remote? If so, what are your values for horizontal position and width?


Thanks in advance,


Ron
 

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Ron,

I encountered the exact same issue. I was very confused initially and thought that maybe the Sampo could not actually handle 720P. You are right on, you simply need to adjust the vertical and horizontal on the display. The defaults for RGB are way off. I believe the horizontal needed to be adjusted the most. What is really confusing is that it looks like the picture is completely messed up. You will even see bad bending in the vertical direction. This is because the Sampo is attempting to display 1280 lines in about 40% of the screen width.


I've since removed my PC and have been playing with my Dish 6000. So, unfortunately the settings on the Sampo are no loner correct for my PC. If you need me to, I can hook my PC back up and get it dialed back in and send you the settings. I do still have my Powerstrip settings. I had to adjust Powerstrip as well to tweak the image. Here are the Powerstrip settings:

Horizontal/Vertical:

Active 1280/720

Front Porch 112/5

Sync Width 72/5

Back Porch 184/20

Total 1648/750

Sync Polarity +/+


This resulted in a 45.130 kHz/60.173 Hz Scan Rate/Refresh Rate. I am using a Geforce2 based video card.
 
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