AVS Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 70 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,020 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I love the Balrog fight scene in TTT. But if you watch carefully, after the Balrog makes Gandalf fall (and Gandalf is still clinging to what's left of the bridge), the whip is long since off of Gandalf's leg. So are we to believe that the same Gandalf who fights the Balrog (seeminginly unaffected by fire) from the bottom of the mountain to the highest peak was so weak he couldn't pull himself back up to the bridge? What's up with that?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,586 Posts
You never know. It's not discussed in books, as far as I can recall. Partly it might have been to keep them from trying to come back for him, since the Orcs are on the other side and still firing arrows.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,512 Posts
Quote:
What's up with that?
He was paid to do that. Gandalf has always been on the payroll of Sauron. He was their insider.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,570 Posts
As I remember (but don't hold me to it) the book made it clear that the balrog pulled Gandalf down. The scene as shown in FOTR was very shocking to me when I first saw it since the balrog and whip were long gone when Gandalf fell- I kept thinking "go help him, you idiots" at the rest of the fellowship. But of course, he HAD to fall... I don't know why PJ didn't keep the whip around Gandalf's leg. To add that extra beat of dramatic tension I guess, so he could deliver his "fly, you fools!" line.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
855 Posts
Yes Gandalf sacrificed himself. He knew that this was his test. Also in order to be better equipped to face Sauron and Saruman he knew that in his present state as Gandalf the Grey he wasn't powerful enough.


Returning as Gandalf the White was necessary to face what is to transpire in TTT and ROTK.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,586 Posts
And it's always possible that it just slipped through the cracks. Sometimes, when you are that involved in such a large project for so long, you can start losing the forrest for the trees and things can slip through that you didn't catch until it was too late.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,586 Posts
Quote:
Yes Gandalf sacrificed himself. He knew that this was his test. Also in order to be better equipped to face Sauron and Saruman he knew that in his present state as Gandalf the Grey he wasn't powerful enough.
Can you point to any supporting information to back that up? I don't remember right off hand that this was either stated explicitly or implied, but if you can point something out I will obviously defer to that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,194 Posts
Dean: I don't think there is supporting material that talks about this, if there is it is burried somewhere. From the looks of it Gandalf is pulliing himself up at first and the whip grabs his leg just enough to pull him down. Who knows, if it is implied of explicit. It doesn't state it in any detail in any of the books I have.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,020 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by FredProgGH
As I remember (but don't hold me to it) the book made it clear that the balrog pulled Gandalf down. The scene as shown in FOTR was very shocking to me when I first saw it since the balrog and whip were long gone when Gandalf fell- I kept thinking "go help him, you idiots" at the rest of the fellowship. But of course, he HAD to fall... I don't know why PJ didn't keep the whip around Gandalf's leg. To add that extra beat of dramatic tension I guess, so he could deliver his "fly, you fools!" line.
I agree with your synopsis. Also, as you note the fact that only Frodo attempts to run to him and is held back is a little weak and is in contradiction with the character of the other members of the fellowship. But it's a fine movie IMO - I'm just nitpicking.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,227 Posts
Did he fall or was he pushed ???


The age old Humpty Dumpty mystery :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,586 Posts
Some things that don't cover in the movie are that Gandalf was taking a lot of medications and drinking a lot and that he owed the other fellowship members a lot of money.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,962 Posts
Quote:
He was paid to do that. Gandalf has always been on the payroll of Sauron. He was their insider.
LOL..


My feeling was that Gandalf knew tangling with the Balrog was his ultimate destiny. He was afraid to go into those darn mountains in the first place, because he knew it would not be good for him. He was being puled but at that point decided to simply give in ot his fate.


-- Cain
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,881 Posts
"Can you point to any supporting information to back that up? I don't remember right off hand that this was either stated explicitly or implied, but if you can point something out I will obviously defer to that."


Yeah, the books. Read 'em.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
333 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by peter0302
Yeah, the books. Read 'em.
The description in the book is pretty straightforward. The balrog gets his whip around the wizards knees and pulls him into the abyss.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
564 Posts
Quote:
The description in the book is pretty straightforward. The balrog gets his whip around the wizards knees and pulls him into the abyss.
I don't really see much of a deviation in the movie. The way I see the scene, the Balrog is still hanging to Gandalf's leg when Gandalf lets go.

Quote:
My feeling was that Gandalf knew tangling with the Balrog was his ultimate destiny. He was afraid to go into those darn mountains in the first place, because he knew it would not be good for him. He was being puled but at that point decided to simply give in to his fate.
I agree. Gandalf knew he had to do it (it was the only way to save Frodo and the ring.) It was kind of like when Frodo volunteered to be the ring bearer, Gandalf reluctantly allowed destiny to unfold.


--Burke
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,020 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by BurkeLaShell
I don't really see much of a deviation in the movie. The way I see the scene, the Balrog is still hanging to Gandalf's leg when Gandalf lets go.
I suggest you re-watch the scene. The balrog has long since let go of Gandalf when Gandalf falls - there is no question on that point.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,881 Posts
"The description in the book is pretty straightforward. The balrog gets his whip around the wizards knees and pulls him into the abyss."


The Two Towers explains how Gandalf needed to be promoted in rank in order to fight Saruman. White was the highest rank, followed by Grey. It's also explained in the Silmarilion. The Valar (gods) took Gandalf and resurrected him as the White so that he could defeat Saruman, who had betrayed the gods. The Wizards (Istari) were messengers of the gods, and at least Gandalf, and presumably the other wizards, were former Maia, servents of the gods, just like Sauron.
 
1 - 20 of 70 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top