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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have been on the market for tower speakers for 2-channel listening. I narrowed my options to the Focal Chorus 726s, PSB Image T-6s, Paradigm Monitor 11s, and the Paradigm Studio 60s(out of my self imposed budget but wanted to see how the other 3 stacked up against this universally loved speaker). I auditioned all 4 but the Focals, PSBs, and Monitors were set up in one room with a 70w Cambridge Audio receiver and the Studio 60s were set up in a separate room with a 150w Anthem receiver. For background I have a Pioneer Elite VSX 74tx (140w/ch).


From the get-go the Focals and PSBs sounded superior to the Monitor 11s in everyway, with the Focals sounding a bit more refined than the PSBs but not buy much. PSBs had the best mid-range detail and imaging while the Focals reproduced upper range and vocals with amazing clarity. Then I went to the other room and listened to the Studio 60s and got just absolutely blown away! They sounded amazing and in a completely different league. At that point I asked for prices and was quoted the following prices w/taxes:

Focal 726: $1600/pr PSB Image T-6: $1200/pr Paradigm Studio 60: $2000/pr.


After further listening I bit the bullet and paid the extra $500-$1000 more than I wanted to on the Studio 60s ( They were out of stock and have to be ordered). I then got home and realized that I am wasn't 100% comfortable with my purchase for the following reasons:


1. The Focal and PSBs where being driven by a different receiver than the 60s so I wasn't able to compare apples to apples.


2. I've made the mistake in the past of buying great speaker and receivers without consideration for how the two might or might not complement each other and ended up disappointed and regretful. I don't want to take home $2000 worth of speakers and be let down by their performance when paired with my receiver.


Should I request a second chance to audition the PSB T-6s, the Focals, and the 60s running through the same set-up using a Pioneer Elite comparable to my VSX-74TXVi?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nasser117 /forum/post/19561789


Should I request a second chance to audition the PSB T-6s, the Focals, and the 60s running through the same set-up using a Pioneer Elite comparable to my VSX-74TXVi?

I would. It shouldn't much effort to move those 60's into the same auditioning room and powering them with something close to your Pio 74. If you don't go back and do it you'll be wondering if you made the right decision. If the shop knows you are serious they should be willing to accomodate. Heck, it's your money.

I know a guy who was in the same dilema as you and he went to the extent of unhooking his Pio 84 and bringing it along to make the decision between the Paradigms Monitor line and the SE series. BTW he ended up with the SE.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nasser117 /forum/post/19561789


Should I request a second chance to audition the PSB T-6s, the Focals, and the 60s running through the same set-up using a Pioneer Elite comparable to my VSX-74TXVi?

Yes.


An in home demo with all three would be best.
 

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All things being equal, there won't be any meaningful difference on the sound between those receivers. A receiver or amp shouldn't complement or take anything away from any speaker. It's only job is to provide power without any sonic differences. I think you'll be ok. Enjoy your new Paradigms.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The Anthem line has a very different sonic signature than my Pioneer.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DamageMcRamage /forum/post/19561880


All things being equal, there won't be any meaningful difference on the sound between those receivers. A receiver or amp shouldn't complement or take anything away from any speaker. It's only job is to provide power without any sonic differences.

Just plain false. Amps can and do have sonic differences, period. Who knows who came up with the idea that they don't, but whoever it was needs a good spanking.
 

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I also agree regarding going back. We can tell you all day its going to be fine or not going to be fine. The people you worked with may enjoy testing that out so don't worry about having to go back. There is only 1 way you'll know for sure. For that type of money go back and be certain. You have made the mistake once and was disappointed. You are learning from that. Please let us know your results when you get back.
 

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If you really want peice of mind take your amp along. I have a denon at home and where possible I like listening to speakers using the same brand just because I know my way around the menu to turn on or off features that might be affecting the sound.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvih /forum/post/19562265


Just plain false. Amps can and do have sonic differences, period. Who knows who came up with the idea that they don't, but whoever it was needs a good spanking.

There have been documented studies showing that a listener cannot detect a sound difference between 2 different amps. Of course - this is assuming they have similar power ratings and are being played from the same source unit and through the same speakers in the same room. I'd be curious to take this test myself.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jake227 /forum/post/19562646


There have been documented studies showing that a listener cannot detect a sound difference between 2 different amps. Of course - this is assuming they have similar power ratings and are being played from the same source unit and through the same speakers in the same room. I'd be curious to take this test myself.

I'd probably "fail" that test, since my ears have the resolution/tone/detail detection of a deaf person - I can't even detect speaker differences most of the time these days, even while I know full well they are there. I also don't know about the scientific side of the whole thing, but I do know that when I went from my first separate amp, which happened to be an AVR, to my second one, a respected stereo amp a bit over six years ago, even I heard a very noticeable bump in amount and quality of bass output (though other differences weren't nearly as prominent). Sure, the power ratings and just about everything else were different... but then, few different amps have identical or even very similar real-life ratings anyway - not to mention there's many different things to consider, not just wattage, for example.


But in the end, the point is that his statement was even at best misleading the way he put it, and as such might give false information to people who don't know any better from their own experience. And as such, the OP should definitely test the Studio 60s with the same amp as the other ones - even better if he can take out his own amp to test them with, since he apparently plans to keep his current amp.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvih /forum/post/19562990


But in the end, the point is that his statement was even at best misleading the way he put it, and as such might give false information to people who don't know any better from their own experience.

How was it misleading, exactly?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by tvih /forum/post/19562990


Sure, the power ratings and just about everything else were different... but then, few different amps have identical or even very similar real-life ratings anyway - not to mention there's many different things to consider, not just wattage, for example.


But in the end, the point is that his statement was even at best misleading the way he put it, and as such might give false information to people who don't know any better from their own experience.

Are you saying that my statements are misleading? First of all, this isn't the gardening and quilting forum, so most people DO know better.

From my own experience I know that the receiver has a big influence on the sound of the speakers. When I upgraded from my Yammy RXV-625 to my Pioneer elite I noticed a huge difference. On some songs it was as if I was listening to an alternate version.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvih /forum/post/0


I also don't know about the scientific side of the whole thing, but I do know that when I went from my first separate amp, which happened to be an AVR, to my second one, a respected stereo amp a bit over six years ago, even I heard a very noticeable bump in amount and quality of bass output (though other differences weren't nearly as prominent). Sure, the power ratings and just about everything else were different... but then, few different amps have identical or even very similar real-life ratings anyway

Let us assume you are correct and you hear a sound difference.


You've already said the wattages were different. What about the capicitence? Did your bass drivers present a strong resistance drop that your first amp lacked the reserves to keep the voice coil energized through?


Amps do sound the same. If they are well built. If they are sufficient to the task, and if they are not deliberately colored. It sounds like you ha an insufficient amp to begin with.


The OP's 60's, as I mentioned, are pretty easy to drive.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nasser117 /forum/post/19564067


Are you saying that my statements are misleading? First of all, this isn't the gardening and quilting forum, so most people DO know better.

From my own experience I know that the receiver has a big influence on the sound of the speakers. When I upgraded from my Yammy RXV-625 to my Pioneer elite I noticed a huge difference. On some songs it was as if I was listening to an alternate version.

I have seen (heard) the same thing. However very slight. Marantz, Denon, Pioneer, Onkyo, and Yamaha from warmest to brightest is what I have noticed. The biggest difference will come from room set up however. ALWAYS demo speakers in the same room to make a decision.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nasser117 /forum/post/0



Are you saying that my statements are misleading? First of all, this isn't the gardening and quilting forum, so most people DO know better.

From my own experience I know that the receiver has a big influence on the sound of the speakers. When I upgraded from my Yammy RXV-625 to my Pioneer elite I noticed a huge difference. On some songs it was as if I was listening to an alternate version.

Mics are cheap. Throw up a FR chart.


I can't even find that model Yamaha to compare (and you don't mention elite model, or speakers, or if there was room correction running, or any of a hundred other things.)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjpearce023 /forum/post/19563102


The way the speakers interact with the room will make a bigger difference than the type of receiver. I would go back and have them put the studios in the same room with the other speakers. I still think the 60s will come out on top but that would be the only fair way to compare them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by karlsaudio /forum/post/19564462


The biggest difference will come from room set up however. ALWAYS demo speakers in the same room to make a decision.

Exactly. Without sidetracking this to a receiver/amp flame war, do consider the above fact. You should have listened to all speakers in the same room.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nasser117 /forum/post/19564067


Are you saying that my statements are misleading? First of all, this isn't the gardening and quilting forum, so most people DO know better.

No, I was saying DamageMcRamage's statement was misleading - after all, I was agreeing with you on there being a difference. And the thing is - you'd THINK people know better, but sadly that's often not the case. Like this one guy in another thread who thought 20-60Hz output is just marketing hype and unnecessary...


Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryLove /forum/post/19564391


You've already said the wattages were different. What about the capicitence? Did your bass drivers present a strong resistance drop that your first amp lacked the reserves to keep the voice coil energized through?


Amps do sound the same. If they are well built. If they are sufficient to the task, and if they are not deliberately colored. It sounds like you ha an insufficient amp to begin with.

Like I said - there are a lot of factors that can affect the output. Are you saying that, let's see, a tube amplifier is badly built or purposefully coloring things just because it sounds different than a solid state amp, for example? Even if comparing two solid state amps, there's always things that can affect the sound, even if only slightly. Doesn't necessarily mean it is out of spec or anything. And if indeed different max power output is enough to make an amp sound different, then indeed many amps will sound different.


My first amp was fine driving 4 speakers plus a passive 4 ohm sub (that I stopped using once I got the new amp) in surround, so it seems unlikely it would've balked at just the two front speakers with the sub also off. I could be wrong, of course, but would seem strange that if it was already struggling, it could effectively drive over twice the load still.


Also, I'd dare say a vast majority of "audiophiles" think there are differences in amps, even those of similar specs. It seems unlikely so many would be so fooled when there are no differences in reality. Things like cables, power cords by comparison seem to have a much more split opinion about them (personally I'm quite skeptical about them making a noticeable difference, but I don't completely rule it out for the sake of keeping an open mind - not that the difference being there would mean that I personally can hear it).


In any case, as for the OP's dilemma, the two different amps he listened to certainly were rather different, in power output among other things. Yet as was also said, the room will indeed have a much larger effect than the receiver, against that you won't hear me argue



PS. No point arguing this further here, since it only derails things, and won't solve anything
 
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