Difference Wireing makes?



Quote:
Originally Posted by dmann304  /t/1517379/difference-wireing-makes#post_24345809


That's much appreciated here. I just noticed a nice healthy increase on sound quality too on the F3's which I baught the

wire for.

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That's the power of expectation for you!


Unless it was half busted, the 18 AWG would have been good to 32ft with 8Ω speakers. Anyway it's done now so forget about it, relax and enjoy your new setup.


References:

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#wiretable (and associated text)

plus:
http://www.bcae1.com/images/swfs/speakerwireselectorassistant.swf


One of the things that many people forget is the fact that sometimes old connections can get corroded or loose, and consequently, any new wire might be better, because one redoes the connection.  Since people rarely try the old wire again, they often erroneously attribute the improvement to the wire instead of the old connection being less than ideal.

 

For the wire that is needed, see:

 

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

 

It is a good idea to periodically check one's connections, particularly in humid environments.



Quote:
Originally Posted by flyng_fool  /t/1517379/difference-wireing-makes#post_24351442


Utter nonsense.

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What else would you expect from a cable quack?

OP, I know what you think you're hearing, and it's not impossible, if your old cable was defective. But you also should be familiar with the facts about cables. Beware of those who will say anything to get your money.
http://www.verber.com/mark/ce/cables.html



Quote:
Originally Posted by NagysAudio  /t/1517379/difference-wireing-makes#post_24350724

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice  /t/1517379/difference-wireing-makes#post_24350443


The difference in insertion loss over a 25 foot run between 18 and 12ga. is 0.25dB. Anything less than 1dB is inaudible. The only other explanation for a difference is if the new cables had significantly less capacitance than the old, but that is the result of a different insulation, not a heavier gauge. The difference would be heard as stronger highs, the lows would not be affected.

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0.25dB, 0.50dB, 0.75dB, etc. over an octave, or more is extremely audible to a human ear.

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0.25 dB over an octave is not audible.


0.5 dB over an octave might be barely audible under ideal conditions.


0.75 dB is only a tiny bit more audible.


This is one of those things that we can test for ourselves. Most AVRs change overall level by 0.5 dB for every click up or down on the volume control. Click up one click (0.5 dB) and see what you think.

Quote:
I wish people would stop these kind of baseless generalizations.

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You don't say!

Quote:
Depending on a variation of the loudspeaker's impedance, losing 0.50dB from 5kHz-20kHz, or 50Hz-500Hz can make a world of difference. And this is exactly where losses will happen with small gauge wire.

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Even a 0.5 dB across the entire audible range is maybe just barely audible under ideal conditions.


But why worry? If you have typical length speaker cables and they are 12 gauge commodity wire from the hardware or big-box improvement store, there will be no audible degradation due to it.

Quote:
Basically thin wire rolls off the highs by a bit and the lows by a bit, leaving the most sensitive region to the ear slightly elevated.

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Not so much. What thin wire does is like putting a low value resistor in series with your speakers. Since the impedance of your speaker varies with frequency like this one:




the loss in the cable will vary with frequency. Low impedance load = more loss. High impedance load = less loss. Since speaker impedance curves vary all over the map, it is impossible to correctly generalize about which frequency range will be affected and how. For example this speaker:




has very low impedance above 10 KHz which means there will be more roll off in that range.


This speaker has rising impedance above 10 KHz, so the added resistance of the speaker wire will cause the response to rise:



Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice  /t/1517379/difference-wireing-makes#post_24351713

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk  /t/1517379/difference-wireing-makes#post_24351642


This is one of those things that we can test for ourselves. Most AVRs change overall level by 0.5 dB for every click up or down on the volume control.

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I just measured mine, the change was 1dB per click. Which makes sense, as less than that isn't worthwhile.

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Interesting. My current Denon 1913 and its predecessor Yamaha both used 0.5 dB steps. The current chips that are usually used for volume controls in HiFi gear are generally 0.5 dB (low and medium grade) or 0.25 dB (expensive stuff) per step.


Not many people write about this sort of thing, but here is an article that seems pretty good:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/technical-articles-and-editorials/technical-articles-and-editorials/options-by-supplier-and-price/page-11-single-chip-analog-avr-lsi.html


Dr. Rich says that this is the most widely used chip:

http://semicon.njr.co.jp/eng/PDF/NJU72340A_E.pdf


I can't confirm the sales statistics but I've seen it in a number of recent AVR service manuals.


and that spec sheet says 0.5 dB per step.


This is another volume control chip just 2 channels - used in older gear:

http://www.cirrus.com/en/products/cs3310.html - 0.5 dB steps


I first tested this chip in an old ISA Turtle Beach audio interface in the mid 1990s. It went out of production and it seemed like Jeff Rowland was the only guy in the universe who thought it was interesting. Then it came back with a similar part number but maybe different alphabet soup and about 8 dB better dynamic range.


and the newer hi-rez version:

http://www.cirrus.com/en/pubs/proDatasheet/CS3308_F1.pdf


with mo betta dynamic range, 8 channels per chip (7.1 AVR ready!) and 0.25 dB steps.


Of course these chips are generally microprocessor controlled in modern gear, and nothing stops some programmer from jumping 2 or 4 levels at a time. Voila: 1 dB steps!