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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've noticed that many people, when responding to the PQ of a particular sports event, don't say whether the signal they are receiving is OTA or cable. Also, most people don't indicate if they are watching on a DLP; LCD; Plasma; CRT RPTV or CRT direct view.....Lcos anyone? It's also never indicated if the poster is using a STB that passes the 720P or 1080i in it's native resolution to their display or whether the equipment is converting the 720P or 1080i to their set's native 1080i or 1366x768 or...............


I know that there are so many threads on different sports events that it would take to much time to list all the above information in every post. However, many people have now had a chance, for the first time in history, to watch a number of games in 1080i and 720p. My question is do you think there is a noticeable difference in PQ between sports in 720p and 1080i and if so do you think it's your equipment?


I've finally come to the conclusion that that the clarity, detail and lack of motion artifacts is better on 720p OTA broadcasts. But that may be because I am watching on a plasma with a resolution of 1366x788 which is being feed a native 720p by the Sony HD200. I know others have equipment that requires their display to convert all formats to 1080i.


So do you notice a difference on sporting events broadcast in 720p and 1080i and if so is it because of your equipment?
 

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I have a hard time noticing a difference in PQ on football between CBS and ABC. If I had to say one or the other I would say CBS, but since CBS has never had a night game it is not a fair comparison, as the lighting is much different. CBS also moves the Score over which I like.


I have a Mitsu rptv that only does 1080i and I think that ABC MNF is one of the best looking programs that I have watched on my TV.


Personally I think that the PQ of the program has more to do with the production and less to do with the resolution. The same could be said for other TV shows. The movies ABC shows almost always look better then their TV shows.
 

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Yeah I agree that people indicating what equipment they have would be useful when knowing whether or not we should completely and utterly disregard their opinion. ;)


Seriously, it can be helpful. I have both a CRT RPTV and a Samsung DLP and have seen oodles of 1080i and 720p on both. Perhaps its the inferiority of the Hitachi CRT, but both HD formats look better on the DLP hands down. That might be helped by running it DVI instead of component, but nevertheless....


The Browns game was phenomenal. Possibly the best 1080i NFL I've seen yet. But HDNet's game the day before didn't look so hot at all. And I haven't seen an ESPN or ABC 720p game look quite as good as the Green Bay pre-season game on ABC, but for the most part it all has looked stellar too.


Bottom line, it seems every production is different and on any given day one format can look better than the other, depending on the peculiarities to that particular production. The displays those broadcasts go to after that just add or detract.


Rick
 

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I have a SAMPO 34" direct view that supports both 720p and 1080i native. I have a MYHD-120 as well as a SA3100-HD cable box connected to this set. To my eyes 720p seems slightly less sharp that 1080i but I don't notice any motion artifacts with 720p whereas I do notice these with 1080i. as for a preference I haven't made up my mind yet. I've only had the MYHD-120 for a couple of weeks. I'd like to see a few hockey games in 720p and 1080i. The fast motion and detail needed for hockey should make for a good test.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
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Originally posted by ender21
Seriously, it can be helpful. I have both a CRT RPTV and a Samsung DLP and have seen oodles of 1080i and 720p on both. Perhaps its the inferiority of the Hitachi CRT, but both HD formats look better on the DLP hands down. That might be helped by running it DVI instead of component, but nevertheless....


The Browns game was phenomenal. Possibly the best 1080i NFL I've seen yet. But HDNet's game the day before didn't look so hot at all. And I haven't seen an ESPN or ABC 720p game look quite as good as the Green Bay pre-season game on ABC, but for the most part it all has looked stellar too.


Bottom line, it seems every production is different and on any given day one format can look better than the other, depending on the peculiarities to that particular production. The displays those broadcasts go to after that just add or detract.


Rick
I had a difficult time deciding what forum to post this question on. I finally picked the HD programming forum because they discuss the PQ on many of the different sports broadcast in HD. I figured they would more likely be able to indicate whether they had noticed differences in the PQ of the many games that have been discussed in the last few months and whether any differences were because of 1080i Vs 720p and the ability of their equipment to natively display those formats.


Ken moved the topic to the Hardware Forum although I guess it could as easily be in the Plasma/LCD or some other Display forum. As I recall you guys mostly talk STB's not display devices or the quality of sports HD Programming in 720P Vs 1080i.


The two observations by ender21 and bdraw are interesting. I agree the production quality of the broadcast has more to do with the PQ on our displays than our equipment. However, I would guess that the native resolution of the display and whether it's being feed the same format resolution ( by the STB) as is being broadcast by the network would also make a difference.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by Petteri
I have a SAMPO 34" direct view that supports both 720p and 1080i native. I have a MYHD-120 as well as a SA3100-HD cable box connected to this set. To my eyes 720p seems slightly less sharp that 1080i but I don't notice any motion artifacts with 720p whereas I do notice these with 1080i. as for a preference I haven't made up my mind yet. I've only had the MYHD-120 for a couple of weeks. I'd like to see a few hockey games in 720p and 1080i. The fast motion and detail needed for hockey should make for a good test.
You're right. Hockey would probably be the best test.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by DOBE


The two observations by ender21 and bdraw are interesting. I agree the production quality of the broadcast has more to do with the PQ on our displays than our equipment. However, I would guess that the native resolution of the display and whether it's being feed the same format resolution ( by the STB) as is being broadcast by the network would also make a difference.
Up until this weekend I'd agree with that. Maybe ESPN and ABC's NFL productions were just off for their respective games this weekend, but the Browns game was so awesome that to me it was the best, despite the fact that it was being cross-converted from 1080i to 720p and the ESPN/ABC offerings were 720p native. However, the 1080i -> 720p conversion *does* allow for a certain amount of artifacting due to interlace artifacts in the source, but at least this weekend, IMO, 1080i won on a 720p display. The Broncos thrashing of the Raiders was a close second.


And that might be due to the Browns game being a bright day game, too. So far the day games in both formats have been inferior to my eyes because the lighting was just so uncontrollable. The night games looked better. But CBS managed to do things very well yesterday and as a result provided stellar PQ. Maybe because it was that much better than the other day games I've seen it stood out more. I don't know. Again, just my opinion.


Rick


P.S. Petteri, 720p -> 1080i always looks softer on my 1080i CRT RPTV, but 1080i -> 720p always looks nearly as good as 720p native on my DLP. And in the case of this past weekend, to me it looked even better.
 

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I have 2 tv's, a Mitsubishi 42" RPTV(1080i) and a Sharp 30" Aquos LCD(720p). I have E86's hooked up to both. I see a shadow effect on the LCD but not with the Mits. This is with ABC(OTA) & ESPN. I didn't see if it was going on with HDNet and CBS football also. But to me the better picture each time was on the Mits due to the fact of no shadow effect. All the HD football games look awesome on the Mits. I have another Samsung 32" RPTV(1080i) that isn't plugged in now, but I will put another E86 on that soon.

I tried to put a TS-160 on the on the LCD, but it killed the remote control to the reciever box to the LCD screen. I need the control working more than I need the native rez.
 

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There's little doubt that the new production trucks that ABC/ESPN have begun using for their HD broadcasts produce the finest, electronic HD pictures...all factors considered. They are simply stunning...sharp, excellent colorimetry, etc. That is...except for that whimpy "Skycam". Even though my Mitsu converts to 1080, it doesn't hurt those pictures at all.


The CBS crew in San Francisco did do a great job dealing with the lighting conditions. Many of the HD games shot in bright sunshine have had seemingly over exposed whites, as there is (was) obviously some kind of problem with the signal levels either in the link back to CBS in NY or in the uplink to the stations.
 

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I agree that the native resolution of the set & hardware used are an important factor in Sports PQ.


For me (on a 720p DLP), ABC's 720 MNF OTA thru DVI (Samsung ts 160 receiver) is clearly the best football Ive seen. Perfect PQ - no problems, no artifacts, people and action look "live"


CBS 1080 football via Comcast thru component (Motorola 5100 receiver) was clearly inferior - I initially thought it was 1080 vs 720.


However, I watched CBS 1080 via direct TV thu DVI (Samsung ts 160) and the PQ was very good. Almost up to MNF for me. I'm sure DVI over component helped. I also suspect that the Motorola 5100 is not as good as the Samsung ts 160 for converting 1080 to 720.


Bottom line - it is helpful to know the monitor, receiver, source and input. A post stating "1080 NFL blows away 720" is difficult to evaluate.
 

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I was watching the Browns/49ers game. When the camera was panned back to cover the whole field, the orange helmets looks very bring, almost like they were little lights. The white pants, especially on the refs looked very 'shimmery' almost blown out and maybe with a slight blue cast. Is this a result of the broadcast or could my DTC-100 be doing that?


Thanks,


Steve
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by sjf99
I was watching the Browns/49ers game. When the camera was panned back to cover the whole field, the orange helmets looks very bring, almost like they were little lights. The white pants, especially on the refs looked very 'shimmery' almost blown out and maybe with a slight blue cast. Is this a result of the broadcast or could my DTC-100 be doing that?


Thanks,


Steve
It's diffficult to tell. What's the model # and type of display you're using? Maybe someone with the same set can tell you if they experienced the same effects.


The 49er game was broadcast on a very clear, bright day in S.F. Given your description it sounds like it may be a problem with your display's ability to handle bright whites. You may be describing crushed whites. I don't know if the bright orange helments looking like "little lights" was a one time occurrence or happened during the entire game. Again I would guess it's your display. Did you notice this on MNF games? Have you noticed it on any other day games?
 

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I have seen this "effect" on a number of HD broadcasts...mainly CBS football (well...who else has been broadcasting them). However, I saw this game in a Mitsu 55" and it was one of the best balanced I've seen, without the "crushed whites" seen on some other broadcasts.


Certainly...the display system being watched is a major factor...so if the brightness/contrast/color are a little too "hot"...that could produce the problem...or...a local broadcaster's encoder could be causing some of the problem...cable company.......anything is possible these days. It's a long "chain" from the point of origin to your set.
 
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