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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
After having saved for a long time, I finally took the dive into the digital projection world. To be sure, I read and read and purchased an XGA model. Surely this would yield me tons of extra pixels for a nice sharp picture. Positioned about 15 ft from the screen, maxed out the screen size with a 1.6x zoom lens. The picture connected with a 30ft S-video cable to a DVD player is disappointing. There were ghost lines around the subjects. Definitely not what I expected from an expensive product.


Funny, the projector generated graphics such as those from the functions menus are extremely sharp. What gives?? Am I doing any thing wrong here?? Or have I made a multi-thousands dollars purchasing mistake? Is there anything that I can do to improve the picture?


MakMak

 

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Which projector do you own, Model and Manufacturer?


And what screen do you own, also, model and manufacturer??


Also what was your source ??


-- Cain

 

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To get the best picture you must drive your display at its native resolution.

You need to get a video scaler or HTPC for optimum results.

Most FPs do not have good built-in scalers. They are built for business use and not HT.


I would suggest you browse this forum, the HTPC forum and Video processing forum thoroughly for more info.


AO.
 

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Beg, borrow, or steal either an HTPC or Progressive Scan DVD player before you make a determination on the quality of your projector. Also, make sure you use a DVD that is known to have a good image. My favorite suggestion is always Toy Story 2.




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DVI/HDCP makes your HDTV not ready
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by MakMak:
The picture connected with a 30ft S-video cable to a DVD player is disappointing. There were ghost lines around the subjects. Definitely not what I expected from an expensive product.


Funny, the projector generated graphics such as those from the functions menus are extremely sharp. What gives?? Am I doing any thing wrong here?? Or have I made a multi-thousands dollars purchasing mistake? Is there anything that I can do to improve the picture?

Hi MakMak, Digital projectors have garnered a lot of praise due to their ease of setup and image quality. In order to obtain good results with them though, you need to feed them a progressive signal like that from a DVD player with progressive output (visit the DVD hardware forum) or better yet match the PJ's resolution using a scaler/processor (visit the Video processor foum), HTPC (visit the HTPC forum) or if available HDTV (well you know...).


When you feed the projector an S-video/composite signal, the PJ must convert this into a progressive signal using it's (usually) low-quality internal processing. This process usually creates a soft image with plenty of artifacts similar to what you are experiencing. The ghosting on the other hand is most likely caused by the video cable you are using.


Ultimately you should spend some time reading and then asking questions in the various forums. Based on your expectations, setup and budget, you will be able to obtain the best from your unit. Hope this helps.


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Sergio R.



[This message has been edited by LMDA1 (edited 09-07-2001).]
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hi Everyone,


As you can tell by my post as well as the number of posts I have made, I am a genuine certified NEWBIE. I want to thank all that have responded to my post with suggestions and advices. This forum is simply great. And the members are truly the BEST.


To answer Mr. Cain, I have a EIKI LC-XGA970UE. Currently I am only projecting the image onto a white wall (the buget has not allowed for a screen, yet). We viewed Erin Brokovich, a rental DVD. We do not have a progressive scan DVD player. Is this a requirement or should I go straight to a HTPC?


In all, it looks like I will need to expand my knowledge horrizon as well as my pocketbook (not that I mind). This is a lot of fun, so far.


Thanks again to all for pointing me to possible solutions.


MakMak
 

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You don't need a progressive scan DVD player if you are going to get an HTPC - the HTPC can act as progressive scan DVD player itself. Take a good look through the HTPC forum, and look at the great ready-made HTPCs available at the AV Science Store for your best bets. Good luck!


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Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.
 

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HTPC is better than a DVD player. Definitely try an HTPC if you can get one, progressive DVD if not. And, lose the s-video. Definitely use either VGA, component, or RGB/HV.


- Dave
 

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I have an NEC VT540 LCD projector connected to a regular Toshiba, non-progressive, DVD player by a 25' S-video cable. Image is excellent, artifact free. I don't believe your picture trouble is due to the DVD player or HTPC or any of that stuff. These devices may give u a slightly better picture (there have even been disagreements with how much). Certainly, you should get a good, enjoyable image without these enhancements. Maybe try a different cable?
 

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I have a Proxima X350 and use an HTPC. If your projector supports it use the DVI connection. If you don't have an HTPC buy or make one that has a DVI connection. The signal is totally digital and there is no ghosting whatsoever. When I switched from VGA to DVI I could not believe the difference. It definitely has the cleanest signal of all of them.


PS. For those who looked over the X350 because of HDTV, don't. Proxima does not advertise it but HDTV does work with the X350 and it too looks exceptional. I finally saw my first HDTV baseball game on HDNET last night and it was great.
 

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I am surprised to hear the Proxima rated as "great" i have one of them kicking around and i found it to have serious sampling issues. THe internal processing seems to be only about 7 bit or less. with a ramped grey scale there are some very noticable steps in the image. It is cool, neat and very handy, but a great image?


Also, i have compared on that machine with DVI versus Analog VGA in (without the video module clamped on) and could not see a difference. I ran every test pattern from displaymate through it, as well as various computer applications and other software, and could not see anything other than the fact that the DVi was a little sharper (although nobody could tell what it was that was sharper)

THis leads me to think that you have some issues in your analog system.


[This message has been edited by Dizzman (edited 09-07-2001).]
 

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I agree that your problems sound like they are cable or connector related. While it is true that progressive scan, or HTPC provides a significantly better picture than svideo, (as does component input) the differences are a lot more subtle than what you are describing. While upgrading to progressive input improved my picture, all casual observers and non HT freaks were quite impressed with straight svideo input to my NEC VT540. I've also seen many business projectors set up this way at a local business presentation store, and while I have seen artifacts, overall the picture was very watchable on all of them, with nothing like you're describing.

Of course, "very watchable" is a relative term, but change your cables before giving up (maybe try a shorter one, as well.)
 

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makmak,


i had a different experience. i find that with my dlp the image was crap until i got an htpc. my reaction then is that you do not have a cable problem but that you need to drive the pj with it's native resolution. the point is that everyone has different pj's here and we all have different opinions of what a crappy picture is. if you have a laptop for work or can borrow one that plays dvd's with windvd it might let you do a quick test. it won't be as good as a really well configured htpc with radeon card and all but it might let you see if the htpc makes a difference.


greg


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Compaq MP2800 DLP, 1Ghz htpc w radeon aiw, 45 x 80" diy accoustically transparent screen, lexicon dc-1. ipaq touchscreen for control
 

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MakMak,

You should also read about scalers waht they are ect.

You are using the internal scaler of the projector when using an s-video feed, and also may be very poor one. That is why others have suggested HTPC (which is not always the best solution for a newbie , cheapest but not alwasy the best solution).


If you are not inclined to use a HTPC try using a Crystal Image scaler which is sold by AVS. It cost aabout $1700. While this might seem much I have spend more than that with my HTPC as it evolved over the past two years.


clopez
 

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Is this your projector?


If so, 600 lumens is pretty dim in all but a pitch black room and about a quarter or third of that available in projectors with a street price less than your projector's MSRP. The contrast ratio of 250:1 is about a third of currently available projectors with a street price less than your projector's MSRP. You can get a decent picture with it, I'm sure, but probably not what you were expecting. Plus, since it doesn't have component inputs, you will have to drive it with a PC with a DVD drive and the right kind of hardware/software or an through an outboard processor like a Quadscan, which is about $1,000 US. Ghosting probably is your cable. It needs to be better, like from Better Cables. It sounds like your projector is brand new. You might want to return it and start over after some more research.


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Joe


"Well, it didn't look like a two-horse town, but try finding a decent hair jelly."
 

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MakMak, I live nearby and would be willing to help you out if you wish. I have a cheap progressive player that I am sure will produce a picture more like what you expected. Of course, others here are right that an HTPC is the best source, but if you are tapped out (like me) after buying an expensive projector, then this DVD player(under $200) will do the trick.


I just realized that my post sounds like I am selling this DVD player. I am not, this thing is just such a great value. OK, it's an APEX AD-800. I didn't want to mention it here for fear of being laughed at for owning such a cheap piece of equipment. They can be bought on ebay, Wal-mart, or many other sources online.
 

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As many people are indicating the image does tend to make a jump in quality when matching the native resolution of the projector... How much of a jump depends entirely on the internal scaler of the projector...


As a self confessed HTPC nut (perhaps those two things are mutually inclusive http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif ) I would recommend this way of scaling for anyone that A) Wants the absolute best DVD image B) Wants to do this on the minimum available budget C) Wants the ultimate flexibility (albeit at the cost of configuration and tweaking time) to manipulate the image and integrate the whole system into one box D) wants to be able to upgrade this whole setup very cost effectively each time a new 'standard' or format is released...


Plus there are 2 sub $500 ones in the classifieds and a pretty well spec'ed PIII 600 for asking $750... Not bad for DVD + scaler. Please do come over to the HTPC section to try and learn the pitfalls and pratfalls before committing money..


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HTPC without using windows... GUI Front Ends for Home Theater
 

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I agree with indygreg about the DLP and HTPC. Remember that DLP was engineered to work with a PC first and then added composite and svideo later. And with DVI compared to VGA. A lot depends on cable length, cable quality and EMI interference. If any of these gets in the way, then DVI would get rid of 99%. If your vga run is only 6 ft or less then use VGA. However, the longer the cord you run into more chances of quality going downhill. Same for DVI but it's like the HD signals you get over the air. They are either there or they are not.

I have worked for the last 5 years setting up conference rooms for Disney and Lockheed Martin here in Orlando and I can tell the difference with data PQ and Video PQ in dark and well lit rooms. If you are a PC/LAN admin like I am, there are ways around to get what you want from a "business projector" to high quality video projector. Your bosses will expect you to do the research and implement it. The X350 has it shortfalls, but then again, they all do. If you want the perfect image for almost any setting, then you need a commercial grade digital projector. Try getting a demo and use it at home and see if you like it. I like my X350 hooked up to HD Sat receiver and HTPC w/ WinDVD 3.0 and video capture card with dScaler. "Think outside the box". All of these digital projectors got their guts from the business presentation world. Use those resources also, not just home theater resources and you will find loads of info for you to come up with a conclusion for your needs.


Dizzman, what proxima do you have kicking around? Why would you use internal processing if there's one for free on the internet that can compared to a $2000 processor on the market? Remember these projectors are for business to hook up to a computer, not a NTSC signal
 
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