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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I need some help in understanding Dilard area mods for my D-ILA. It's an imported M15 and has video/computer2 inputs similar to the older models. That is, it has all the computer settings plus NTSC, PAL/SECAM, EDTV II and HDTV and opposed to the newer models that have NTSC, PAL/SECAM, HDTV 1 and HDTV 2. No 720p. I want to try the 720p mod since the only OTA HDTV station I currently can get is ABC.


First, I would rather use the YPbPr video input for my HiPix HDTV instead of computer2 but I've done a search and read some old threads that suggest the mod only works on the computer2 input. Is there a reason it won't work on the YPbPr video input? I'd like to use the RGBHV computer2 input for my HTPC radeon card and the YPbPr video input for the HiPix card.


Second, can I only apply the 720p mod to the HDTV setting or can I apply it to the EDTV setting? Is EDTV limited to just 480p? If I apply it to the HDTV setting then I assume that the only way to go back to 1080i would be with Dilard and to re-mod it with the original setting. Seems like a lot of effort to switch between 720p and 1080i. Am I missing something?


Any other help or suggestions on the 720p mod would be appreciated.


Thanks, Don
 

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Don,


Why don't you just try it?. With a good backup you have nothing to loose.


First, just backup your current configuration and restore it to the projector to make sure that the backup works.


I have actually done what you are asking for with my DILA and Dilard.

As long, you apply the mod to a similar memory area, you should be fine.


I was able mod all the computer2 and SXGAx (SXGA1, SXGA2, SXGA3) memories with similar settings without any problems.


Component/Video memories are similar - i.e. EDTV, HDTV etc..



Andrew
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Andrew, thanks but I don't even know where to start in order to try it. :)


What are the chances that someone who has a newer D-ILA (G15 or later, that has the HDTV 1 (720p) on computer 2 and/or video input settings) and Dilard can give me the 'stock' 720p geometry settings or a 720p Dilard mod file. Since mine doesn't have the 720p setting I would like a starting point to create it without starting from scratch since I'm a newbie when it comes to the geometry settings.


I'd like this because my M15 only has a 1080i HDTV input. The only HDTV I get is ABC which is in 720p but doesn't look very good to me through the 1080i setting on the projector. Some people have the opinion that 720p would look better if not scaled to 1080i by the projector. True?


Mark H., do you have a 'stock' 720p mod file?


Thanks, Don
 

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Hi Don,


It's getting late here, but one thing comes to mind immediately:


There is a G15 entire projector backup on the web site. The "Area Data" do not change from projector to projector unlike the other image settings. If you are careful not to restore the stuff you don't want, you can restore just the Area Data setting you wish to your projector and toss the rest. Just drill down in the tree to the item you want and drag that to your projector.


Mark
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hi Mark,


Thanks, that would help but unless I was looking in the wrong spot, your web site had the stock .dlb file listed as 'by request'. I guess this is a request. :)


Should I PM you my email?


Don
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Quote:
click on the projector bottom of page
Doh! Now I get it. :D


I was looking for a here link like for the area mods.


Thanks!!
 

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Mark et. al.


Will 720p work via the component video inputs, or is it limited to the RGBHV? I have a DTC-100 hooked up to the RGBHV, and have been intrigued by a DVD player being discussed in the DVD Hardware forum that scales to 720p. The player is called the KISS-450, by the way.


My projector is a Dukane 9000D (OEM JVC G10). I'd try it myself, but I don't have a 720p source (yet).
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by Jeffrey Will 720p work via the component video inputs, or is it limited to the RGBHV? I have a DTC-100 hooked up to the RGBHV, and have been intrigued by a DVD player being discussed in the DVD Hardware forum that scales to 720p. The player is called the KISS-450, by the way.
I believe that it will work on either. At least my intention is to set up 720p on both. :D


The stock G15 file from dilard.com has area data for both "HDTV 720p on YUV" as well as "HDTV 720p on Computer 2" so I'm assuming it will work on both inputs on models that don't have built in 720p.


I'll let you know how it goes after I try it.


Don
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by DonDougan
...G15 file from dilard.com has area data for both "HDTV 720p on YUV" as well as "HDTV 720p on Computer 2"
Thanks Don. I guess I should have applied a little logic, and I would have figured it out. Thanks again. Please report back with your experience if you have time to do so.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
OK - Here's where I am with this. I need a little help from an Expert. As someone said before, One of the Marks, any Mark will do. :)


The stock G15 file has a 720p memory for both comp2 and video. Here is the data from the Dilard report for the 720p on video (same as for comp2) from the stock G15:

HDTV 720p on YUV


Position & Dimensions

Left 0

Top 130

Width 1368

Height 771

Horiz. Position Offset 0

Vert. Position Offset 0


Scaling

Horiz. Scaling 100%

Vert. Scaling 110.3448%


Image Start

Horiz. Image Start 242

Vert. Image Start 35


Clamp Settings

Clamp Type Sink Tip

Front Porch 2

Back Porch 50

Aspect Ratio WideScreen


Phase Locked Loop (PLL)

VCOGain 4

Filter Switching Polarity Negative


Other DPC Settings

Total Scan Length 1819

Output Type Normal

Pulse Adj. 3

Srr 4

Flga 1

DPC Flags ASICPRE

ASICPRST




Since what I (and Jeffrey) want to do is get 720p on the video inputs, and the only video memories I have available are NTSC, PAL, EDTV II and HDTV, I decided to mod the PAL memory since I don't use it.


I made a mod (.dlm) file for each of the 4 memories, since when I do a full Dilard backup it doesn't back up the area data, so I can get back to the original PAL settings.


I'm having 2 problems when putting the above data into the Dilard Geometry Wizard.


First, there is no backup data for the 'Source Lines' entry. What is it looking for? I assume that it would be 720 for 720p, right? What about for 1080? I would have thought 540 or 1080 would be the right entry for 1080i but my projector has 512 there. I'm missing something.


The biggest problem is the picture. Once I get everything else entered and play back 720p material, I get 3 side by side images and peoples faces are blue. Obviously one of the settings isn't working out. Any idea on where to start?


Also, Srr 4 , Flga 1 and DPC Flags ASICPRE & ASICPRST are settings listed in the backup file but aren't available for modification. I guess those are not important? What are they, out of curiosity


Thanks,


Don


EDIT: OK, never mind about the blue faces. That was my cabling mistake. :eek:
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
OK, let me frame the question a little differently...


I've entered all the above parameters (expect for Srr 4 , Flga 1 and DPC Flags ASICPRE & ASICPRST) from the stock G15 720p YPbPr into my import M15 PAL/SECAM YPbPr memory. Before changing any settings, with the PAL/SECAM settings, the picture was split into 3 side by side images that were stretched vertically and had a vertical pulsing/jitter. I changed each setting one by one while watching 720p material and none made the images combine into one. The vertical scaling compressed the image but there were still 3 of them along with the pulsing.


I read the dilard.com description of each setting and changed each one through a range of settings and couldn't get the image any better. I confirmed that the image was indeed 720p.


Is there any reason to think my import M15 PAL/SECAM YPbPr memory just can't handle the 720p settings? Obviously I'm no expert here and I would appreciate a little help. Now that CES is over maybe someone has some spare time to help me understand either what I'm doing wrong or why this won't work. :)


Thanks,


Don
 

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You may want to consider RGBH/V connection to the projector for 720p. YPbPr resulted in a red-shift on my G11. Comment to me in another post was that the DILAs have a poor comb filter and the composite input should not be used.


YMMV.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks, I'll keep that in mind once I get the 720p settings working. I'd prefer to save the RGBHV for my HTPC but once I determine the right settings I'll try them on the computer inputs and compare the results.


Don
 

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Hi Don,


I don´t know if it helps, but here´s some info:


"Width" must be the EFFECTIVE pixels of your source +4, and must be a multiple of 4 (e.g. 1364, 1368, 1372).


"Height": I´m not sure wether it is the equivalent to the internal "YkLine" or the "Line" table of the D-ILA.


If it is "YkLine" it must be: Effective Input signal lines + 8 (for AV line - MAC21) or : effective Input signal lines +1 (for SXGA1 - SXGA3)


If it is "Line" it´s a little more complicated, because it depends on your vertical extension ratio:

(effective input signal lines*2) + 3 * Ratio (for AV line - VGA Vesa)

effective input signal lines + 3 * Ratio (for SVGA1 - SXGA3)


Use as Ratio e.g. 1,1 (for 110% called in DILARD)


"Vert.Image Start": Picture loss can occur if vertical frequency is too high or the back porch is too wide. Start with values of about 1-15 and increase until all of your effective lines are displayed and no picture loss occurs.


Your problem of multiple-3-images is normally controlled by the "H Def" (horizontal pulse period) and must be an even number between 400 and 408. I don´t know how to set this in DILARD, but maybe you can correct this with the :

"Srr" is the HS (horizontal pulse period - see above) position. Maybe your value of "4" means an internal value of "404". Just a suggestion.


"Flga" is the SVP signal process start position. Don´t change this.


"DPC Flags" are the flags for the DPC output modes: 0,1 = normal, 2 = virtual double write, 3 = virtual interlace


"ASICPRE", "ASICPRST" can be 1=positive or 0=negative memory RE/PRST output polarity.


Greetings, Thomas
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks, Thomas!


I appreciate the help.


One thing I noticed is that "H Def" (horizontal pulse period) is not explicitly adjustable in Dilard, at least not with anything between 400 and 408. The Dilard web site help pages have a "Pulse Adjustment" Defined as "If you encounter problems such as a split screen image, stuttering, flashing, excessive image grain or banding, you may be able to clear up the picture by adjusting the Pulse setting. Try increasing or decreasing the Pulse Adjustment one unit at a time in either direction until the picture gets noticeably better or worse. It is uncommon to have to change the Pulse Adjustment from the D-ILA defaults, and very rare to have to change it more than 2 units in either direction."


I ran through the full range of adjustments for Pulse Adjustment, which were in the 0, 1, 2, etc range as opposed to 400 to 408 and could not clear the split screen or pulsing.


Srr=4 as well as, Flga 1 and DPC Flags ASICPRE & ASICPRST are listed in the Dilard report but are not adjustable.


What D-ILA do you have and does it have 720p?


Let me digest some of the other things you suggested...


Thanks again,


Don
 

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Wow. I'm impressed!


OK. I'm doing this from memory, so it might not be perfect:


H Def = "Pulse Adjustment" * 2 + 400


Yes, these are the same settings. The "Pulse Adjustment" is just made easier to work with, and eliminates the invalid (image destroying) odd number possibilities and the invalid range.



Thomas,


The code accounts for all of the "rules", so those are built in.

In other words, "Width" is the ACTUAL width of the source (the +4 is hidden, the multiple of 4 is forced, the scaling is accounted for, etc.), "Height" is the number of lines actually displayed in the image (composed of at least 3 different settings, I believe, including YKLine, Line..hmm..and something else).


There isn't really a clean one-to-one relationship between the projector's "raw" RS-232 registers and what the Dilard Wizard displays. Dilard tries to simplify those settings so they make sense.


The goal was to have a human-understandable UI with things like Left, Top, Width and Height, and any number of flips happens behind the scenes to set the raw registers to make that happen.


Mark
 

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Mark,

I should have known that you´ve already put those nasty calculations into Dilard. :D


I checked the values from Dilard and P S A - Soft: It´s just like you said. Thanks for the information regarding H Def , I wasn´t sure about that parameter.


Don,

did you try adjusting the "Vertical Image Start" values ? It might help.


Did you try to set up 1280x720 at the SXGA3-input ? As far as I remember it´s the only input-area that really bypasses the internal scaler of the DILA and allows a native (720 in your case) pixel resolution.


I have a G-11 European model (Mark: no, the area-data backup doesn´t work), but I didn´t try to set up a 720p resolution because I´m running this unit with a Digital Leeza at 1365x1024 on SXGA3.


Sorry about the confusion I might have caused with those calculations. I do most of those adjustments with "P S A" software because of the Dilard backup issue so I forgot how to do it the easy way.


Thomas
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Mark,


Area data backup on my M15 doesn't work either. It's not critical but it would be nice if it did. Do you think it would be an easy fix. I guess nothing is easy, right? :)


Thomas,


Thanks for the insight. I tried all the possible Pulse Adjustment settings and no luck so I'm beginning to think that it just may not be possible. I'll try the Vertical Image Start settings. I've seen hints around the forum that 720p might not work or might only work on the computer 2 input but haven't seen a conclusive yes or no.

Quote:
Originally posted by thomasclaus
Did you try to set up 1280x720 at the SXGA3-input ? As far as I remember it´s the only input-area that really bypasses the internal scaler of the DILA and allows a native (720 in your case) pixel resolution.
I'll try it on SXGA3 just for the sake of experimentation but that input is pretty much reserved for my HTPC and I would live with 720p -> 1080i scaling rather than tie up SXGA3 with 720p.


Don
 

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Where is SXGA3 located? Is that one of the options on the Source menu? I have a G1000 and its computer input only toggles between Computer 1 and Computer 2.
 
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