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I have been debating on which receiver to get for the past few weeks. I am still to decide between Denon 3311 or 2312, Onkyo 809, or Pioneer Elite VSX-52.


One thing that i dont understand when comparing these receivers is the term "Discrete Power Amps". Denon in their specifications rates the Denon 2312 as a 7 channel Discrete Power Amp with 105 watt per channel. Can somebody explain me what that means?


Also onkyo 809 is rated at 135 Watts per channel 2 channel driven. So does that mean that the denon is better than the onkyo in terms of power to the speakers.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hjd17 /forum/post/21440982


I have been debating on which receiver to get for the past few weeks. I am still to decide between Denon 3311 or 2312, Onkyo 809, or Pioneer Elite VSX-52.


One thing that i dont understand when comparing these receivers is the term "Discrete Power Amps". Denon in their specifications rates the Denon 2312 as a 7 channel Discrete Power Amp with 105 watt per channel. Can somebody explain me what that means?


Also onkyo 809 is rated at 135 Watts per channel 2 channel driven. So does that mean that the denon is better than the onkyo in terms of power to the speakers.

Discrete implies, to me, that the models without that feature have their amps on a chip. Discrete refers to each component, such as transistors, resistors and capacitors are separate components mounted to a circuit board.


I don't know of any inherent issue with chip based amplifier circuitry.. But it's cheaper. And perhaps the designers feel they can do better with discrete amps or even the higher end receivers would use them (unless power output is too low on all current chip amps.)


Discrete is definitely perceived as better by many people here.
 

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If you are just going for amp power the Onkyo should be the leader in the pack. The latest Denon's have been a bit generous with their power ratings.
 

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Most AVRs use discrete amps. All it means is each channel has it's own dedicated amplifier. Typically it's own expansion board for each channel. Some really cheap receivers have a single amplifier on a board for all 7 channels.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman /forum/post/21441013


Discrete implies, to me, that the models without that feature have their amps on a chip. Discrete refers to each component, such as transistors, resistors and capacitors are separate components mounted to a circuit board.


I don't know of any inherent issue with chip based amplifier circuitry.. But it's cheaper. And perhaps the designers feel they can do better with discrete amps or even the higher end receivers would use them (unless power output is too low on all current chip amps.)


Discrete is definitely perceived as better by many people here.

Major advantage of the hybrid chip block amplifiers (major supplier is Sanken) is that they save labor/production costs. Simply insert the module rather than multiple discrete parts that require separate biasing and burn-in.

However..

The hybrid chip block amplifiers tend to deliver less sonic performance as well, whereas the discrete component amplifiers permit the design engineer to optimize his choice of silicon devices.


Another constraint of the hybrid chip block amplifier is that they are limited for high power output capability.. To my knowledge the maximum power available in a hybrid chip amplifier is about 100W/CH..



Just my $0.02...
 

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I wondered what the limit was to those hybrid modules.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn /forum/post/21441216


Most AVRs use discrete amps. All it means is each channel has it's own dedicated amplifier. Typically it's own expansion board for each channel. Some really cheap receivers have a single amplifier on a board for all 7 channels.

I don't think so.

A single channel amplifier cannot supply 7 speakers with unique signals.
 

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I wouldn't look at it as anything but a marketing term.


Sometimes (at least in class A/B) a chip amp will have power limitations compared to a chip. (Modern class D chip amps can exceed 500W/ch.) However, because the components on a chip are inherently matched, the chip amp may sound better. That is to say, it is likely to have lower zero-crossing distortion, which is one of the few things actually audible in amps (sometimes, at low listening levels).


Keep in mind that 47 Labs made a killing (per unit, at least) on their "Gaincard" chip amp. It uses a cheap chip that does about 25W into each of two channels, and costs about 2 grand.
 

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Main limit in chip or.hybrid amps is power dissipation. This usually is not a problem with class D devices, so they are more likely made that way. Another limitation is circuit design. It is very expensive to make custom chips, so engineers have to use something off the shelf. It is Ok for low and midrange products, but they can't get exceptional parameters with this limitation.
 

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So, does anyone know if I would hear a difference between two similarly rated and built Yamaha receivers if one has discrete amplification and the other does not? Might it make a real world, noticeable difference I could hear with say Pioneer Andrew Jones speakers?
 

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Originally Posted by DtroitPunk  /t/1384875/discrete-power-amps#post_23851316


So, does anyone know if I would hear a difference between two similarly rated and built Yamaha receivers if one has discrete amplification and the other does not? Might it make a real world, noticeable difference I could hear with say Pioneer Andrew Jones speakers?

If you refer to TAD Reference speakers, then yes you will hear the difference.
 

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So, then I should NOT be able to tell a difference with the Pioneer Andrew Jones FS-52 etc sets? Thanks, good to know.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap1  /t/1384875/discrete-power-amps#post_23857019


If you refer to TAD Reference speakers, then yes you will hear the difference.

I'd have to see a bias controlled comparison to believe that.
 
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