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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all... I have a Dish 6000 HDTV receiver which I hook up to my Toshiba 65H80 via a component cable. This is the only hook-up I have been using, so I leave the 6000 receiver in HD mode and all the channels get pushed through the component out which works just fine. However, I find that most of the regular DTV and analog channels look very poor. I know this has a lot to do with the fact that a large RPTV will magnify any flaws, but somebody somewhere suggested to also hook up an s-video cable to the 6000 and then switch to SD mode when wathing regular stations. I tried this and I don't really think that there is much of an improvement.


What do other 6000 owners out there do? Is there any benefit to watching regular TV in SD mode? What exactly is the 6000 doing to regular SD signals when you leave it in HD mode? Is it trying to upconvert it to 480p? 1080i? If I use the SD/s-video out, I assume it sends out 480i, and then my Toshiba 65H80 would line-double it to 480p?


Thanks in advance!


Lord British
 

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I keep mine in SD, except for hd material so my VCR can record shows I program with the event timers. I have found the "HD vcr" option in the time to be unreliable. On mine it seems to assume the receiver is in SD so if you select the option it will switch the mode even if it is in the correct mode already. And if its left in HD and the option is not selected, the receiver will not switch to SD. Another feature that needs work.


Chad
 

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Your Lordship,


I also leave mine in HD mode all the time. Since I don't have discrete codes to select input sources on my TV, it's the convenient thing to do.


In HD mode, the 6000 upconverts everything to 1080i or 720p, depending on how it is set up. The poor quality you see is mostly the result of the highly compressed Dish channels, as you guessed -- for confirmation, just look at SD material on HBO HD or Showtime HD. On these channels, the upconversion to 1080i is done prior to the uplink to the bird, and minimal compression is used on the satellite link. This is what SD channels look like with C-Band setups.


On the S-video output, everything is converted to 480i.


------------------

You have a right to install OTA and dish antennas on property under your control.


See http://www.fcc.gov/csb/facts/otard.html
 

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I watch SD material in SD mode via s-video, I find this to be a significantly better picture that the 6000's line doubler and the Theater-wide mode produces fills the 16:9 screen better than any of the 6000's alternatives. I bought an inexpensive radio shack universal remote ($29.95) to watch HD I've progrmammed a macro mapped to one key that switches the 6000 from sd to hd and toggles through the various picture sources on the Toshiba to get to HD1.
 

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I am certainly not an expert but I believe an accurate way to break this down is that if your tv's line doubler is better than the upconversion in the 6000 you will get a better result from the S video output. I have the Pioneer Elite 610 known for a great line doubler and on certian channels the picture is noticably better thru s video. I only change it when the picture thru the HD output is bad though. This is typically on sporting events for some reason. For example Baseball looks much better out of the S video than the componant most of the time. Since u don't see much of a difference I would recommend just leaving it in HD mode.


Best Wishes


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Warren
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Lord British:
However, I find that most of the regular DTV and analog channels look very poor.
Two things to take into consideration:

1) The regular SD satellite channels are often overcompressed and look like crap. Not much you can do about that. It varies from channel to channel. About the only thing you can do would be to sign up for cable if your local cable station provides a better signal of the cable channels you watch.

2) The 8VSB/analog module does a terrible job with local analog stations. The colors are washed out the the aspect ratio control is not that great. Use the tuner in your Tosh 56H80 to watch local analog channels.
 

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I leave mine in HD mode all the time. I have a Mits 6507, and you'd be hard pressed to find a worse line doubler!Found out about the * key through the forum about a week into the subscription, thanks guys! DISH quality varies greatly. Two weeks ago I watched Klute, which I managed to miss seeing for all these years. The image quality was the level of streaming video on a PC! They should have been ashamed.


SM
 

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I leave my 6000 in HDTV mode all the time.


I do loose the ability to use PIP on my Mitsubishi WS-55805. However, I do not use PIP that much. I do not notice much difference between SD mode and HD mode for regular channels.




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I find the S-video SD signal MUCH better (sharper) than the

HD version for non-HD signals.


I use HD for only the HD signals.
 

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I have a Pioneer 510 Elite and find that SD broadcasts look a bit cleaner through the Elite line doubler. I do keep all OTA channels on HD though because I find the picture quality on SD OTA broadcasts much sharper while in HD mode.


David


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David
 

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Richard, You can get a separate line doubler like the Iscan DVDO Pro,

which will much look better than the TVs' or the 6000s'.


You can find all the info about them in the Video Processors

part of the forum.


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Trevor


[This message has been edited by Trevor L (edited 06-12-2001).]
 

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I leave my 6000 in the hd mode all the time..I prefer the upconverted 1080i signal to the sd output...Most channels look pretty good especially the premium movie channels in the upconvert mode...
 

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I leave my 6000 in HD mode all the time for convenience. But, I think the standard channels look a little sharper using the s-video output.
 

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I have the 6000 hooked up to my Pioneer SD-532HD with both the component and s-video cables. I do switch to SD on the SD stations. Yes, the color is not as good and the lines more prevalent but I can zoom the image to fill the screen to avoid any 4:3 burn-in. In some cases since I watch some of indie films on Sundance, Bravo, etc. the presentations is often letterboxed anyway. I find the MPEG artifacts more obvious in HD mode.


- Brian
 

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Brian,

FYI: The 6000 can zoom for you in HD mode while watching SD programs - just press the '*' button to toggle through the various modes.


I prefer 'partial zoom' for 4x3 material. The new software will (if they ever release it) allow scaling of HD broadcasts too.


Dave
 

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I leave the 6000/Tosh TW combo in HD mode all the time EXCEPT for letterboxed movies (increasingly common, thank you, on TMC, AMC, and FMC. My Pronto has a macro top step down to Video one in TW2 setting (to maintain the proper aspect proportions) and a pronto to swap back. (This aspect control is much better than the Dish modes).


One problem with the 6000 is that it over "blows up" the HD picture compared to other units which gives less sidebars but crops more top and bottom for 4:3 sources.


Tim
 

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Unfortunately you are in the same boat as the rest of us with screens > 40". Overcompression has made the Dish SD channels all but unwatchable. Most of the time I use a 19" TV to watch SD channels and use my 106" FP system to watch DVDs and rarely, HD when a decent movie comes on about once a month.


I do find the S output to be much sharper than the HD output. I route both outputs through a Crystal Image scalar @1080i to my FP and 106" screen and allow the scalar to choose between them (in Automatic mode) by using the HD/SD button on the Dish remote.


I am willing to bet that most people who fall prey to Dish's HD promotion by purchasing a 6000 also have large screens, on which SD is unwatchable.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I called Dish yesterday about this and they told me that the only difference between HD and SD mode is that HD uses the HD outs, like component - if you switch to SD, all it does is turn off the HD outs and uses the s-video out.


I tested again last night and I really do not see a quality improvement when I switch to the SD mode to view the SD stations. Actually, the picture gets a little darker (and I am using the same quality component and s-video cables). Also, in SD mode I can use the Toshiba's picture size control as opposed to the 6000's only in HD mode.


So were the Dish guys right, or was it just another case of their tech support showing their ignorance? According to them, the signal is not upconverted to 1080i - it is just output via the component out.


Lord British
 

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I'm pretty positive that the dish 6000 upconverts SD material to 1080i in the recievers HD mode since my TV says that source being outputted to it is HD 16:9 source. If it were only 480p then the TV would show that the source is 480p. (Mitsubishi WS-46805)


I do watch in HD mode pretty much all the time. The line doubler in the Dish 6k looks better then the one in my TV.


-Edited to clairify points.


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Opi


[This message has been edited by opiwan (edited 06-13-2001).]
 

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So were the Dish guys right, or was it just another case of their tech support showing their ignorance? According to them, the signal is not upconverted to 1080i - it is just output via the component out.


Dish tech support was wrong. In HD mode, SD channels are upconverted from 480i to 720p or 1080i then routed to the HD output. The SD output is not used.
 
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