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I've read with great curiosity about the new Dish 921 that's coming out and wondered if some of you that are knowledable about such things can answer a few questions:


1. Will the 921 connect to my Mits 65907 (probably by then equipped with the Promise)?


2. If I'm a DirecTV subscriber, will the 921 work with my existing stuff, assuming the merger?


3. If there's no merger, could I use the 921 to pull down DirecTV signals? And if not, how much would it take for me to get Dish signals on top of DirecTV's? How does one set that up?


4. What STBs are due with firewire outputs and firewire connections to the TV? I have not heard of any.
 

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Hi Evan


1) Yes the 921 should connect to any of todays HDTV's.

2) We assume that this is a yes. The 921 is software upgradeable to work with DirecTV.

3) No, if there is no merger then there is no way Dish Network will allow their receiver to be modified to pick up their compitition.

4) I know of none myself.


Scott

DBStalk.COM
 

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Quote:
2) We assume that this is a yes. The 921 is software upgradeable to work with DirecTV.
Dish is never going to start using Direct TV format because it is not standarized. Direct TV security is also much weaker than Dish. Dish is much harder to hack than Direct TV. If anything it may be temporary situation until they replace Direct TV receivers, assuming of course that the merger goes thru.
 

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Some clarification, please...I read some answers as possibly misleading. I'm no expert, just a consumer. Correct me if I'm wrong.


1. The 921 should connect to your Mits via analog component outs; you may need a transcoder in the mix...I'm not sure if the 921 allows selectable RGBHV/YPrPb output). The 921 uses DVI/HDCP for digital out to the monitor, and the Mits (even with the Promise Module) won't support DVI/HDCP, since they are 100% anti DVI/HDCP. The lingering issue (or has this finally been put to rest?!?) is whether the 921's analog outs will support full HDTV resolution for "premium" content. I would have to think that they will, but never underestimate the power of corporate stupidity. Whatever the case, the 921 will NOT output Firewire to the monitor, so a Promise Module purchase seems moot.


2. The merger is probably 12 months away best case, what with the political delays. To use the 921 (which will likely be available before the merger closes), you'll need to have a Dish subscription. Dish currently requires 2 18" dishes to pick up SDTV and HDTV signals, but hopefully with new satellites that will change. As you know, DirecTV needs only 1 oval dish to get SDTV and HDTV.
 

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I disagree with "DISH is much harder to hack". It's actually easier. Just trust me on that.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by amillians
Some clarification, please...I read some answers as possibly misleading. I'm no expert, just a consumer. Correct me if I'm wrong.


1. Whatever the case, the 921 will NOT output Firewire to the monitor

Can you provide a link to where you aquired the above information?



Dish is just as easy to hack as D*. D* hacking just is much more widespread than Dish hacking. It would only make sense not to use the D* format because of this.
 

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Kipp:


Naturally, I have not seen a 921, so I have to go on info provided by those who have (e.g., Don Landis, Peterd) at CES, etc. DVI/HDCP as the only digital monitor connection has been mentioned a number of times by many people more knowledgeable than I. To wit:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=106323


Echostar's VP of Engineering appears to have confirmed that the IEE1394 port will be for (1) hard drive expansion and (2) D-VHS connectivity only (see Peterd's first post). No monitor connection. Politics may have played a small role in that decision, but it appears mainly centered on the fact that Dish's complex graphics for guide, etc. would require an expensive decode/overlay/re-encode chip to work with Firewire (vs. just a simply DVI overlay without the decode/re-encode step).
 

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Will the Dish 921 IEEE 1394 port allow hard drive expansion such that (a) the files could be archived to DDS tape in the Windows file format and (b) the files could be played back by an HDTV tuner card, such as the Hipix? Will copy protection prevent one or both of these activities?
 

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Hi All,

amillians infromation may be incorrect. Until the product is released don't put any faith into any of these anti Firewire comments

The fact is that all that Dish needs to do to transfer the graphics overlays via Fireiwire is to transfer the grahics via Java Byte-Code. So the decompression MPEG decode -> insert MPEG encode is not needed to transfer graphics overlays to a display using Firewire.
 

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Hey guys, I'd just like to reiterate that it's *not* my information...I simply pointed everyone to a VERY long thread detailing the early info on the 921. I trust the people reporting on the 921 (and their sources), so I have no reason not to believe what they said is true. They even went into pretty decent detail about Dish working up a totally unique Firewire unit (albeit without the PVR features) for Mits sets. I for one do not pretend to understand all of the details for inserting graphics into MPEG2 feeds, but I do know that it is much easier to do using DVI, and that usually equates to cheaper, and that usually equates to what gets done in a company struggling to post profits. I happen to loathe DVI, if only for cable length issues and their performance/economic impact on traditional long run front projection setups.


The misinformation surrounding the 921 is very real--and Dish appears to be doing nothing to quell it. The unit photographed at the latest convention doesn't even have YPrPb or RGBHV outs--there's a whole thread on this issue. Those pictures also fail to show any mention of Firewire-to-monitor support in the talking bullets--the only mention of Firewire in Dish's own PR collateral is for expansion and archiving. In the end, *nothing* I have read indicates that IEE1394 outs to the monitor will be available...it's a moot point to me, though, since I need RGBHV.


Bruce: how do you jump to the conclusion that what I'm saying is "anti-Firewire"?!? I think I responded to one of your comments in another thread about the usefulness of the Promise Module being jeopardized by Mits' anti-DVI stance, but what have I said that is anti-Firewire? The reality is that Firewire to the monitor appears to be on the ropes, save for some niche applications (D-Theater, etc.). Sony's wholesale jump to DVI was a wake up call. Making an informed observation on the future validity of something does not equate to bashing it--it looks like Fireware will prosper as the preferred method of device-to-device communications, just not device-to-monitor communications. This may turn out to be wrong, but I think the odds are that it will be right.
 

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Alex:


Since I first saw the PVR demo at CES, it was very clear to me that this device would support 1394 for DVHS VCR's. The rep said that they were trying to make sure it would work with the 3 known HD DVHS VCR's being made or was made (Panasonic) I specifically asked whether it would be backward compatible with the Panny PVHD1000 and was told that they were working with that VCR as the primary test system. At no time did the rep from the company developing the PVR claim that the 1394 was for the purpose of connection to a monitor. It has always been claimed that this was a connection specifically designed for archiving off the hard drive and was 5C compliant in that is copy protection were enabled as copy once the PVR would time shift but the 1394 would not output for archive (second copy). So why is there all this confusion? I think it is because people want to believe that there is more to it than there really is.
 

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Don:


Thanks for the input--it's nice to hear it from the horse's mouth sometimes (or at least a person who has talked to the horse). The lack of RGBHV or YPrPb outputs on the demo mokcup is what scares me--it just seems weird that they didn't have the time to mock those connections up for the show, but they did have the time to mock up every other type of connection. Hmmmm...where's Oliver Stone when you need him?
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by amillians
Don:


Thanks for the input--it's nice to hear it from the horse's mouth sometimes (or at least a person who has talked to the horse). The lack of RGBHV or YPrPb outputs on the demo mokcup is what scares me--it just seems weird that they didn't have the time to mock those connections up for the show, but they did have the time to mock up every other type of connection. Hmmmm...where's Oliver Stone when you need him?


Alex: It has been reported by some at the show that Dish Reps stated that the Analog outputs ARE there....they just did not have the time to use the correct connector colors!


Todd
 

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Todd: Yep, read that too. Pretty lame excuse, don't you think?!? :)
 

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BTW,

Mits TV can be connected with RGB or YPrPb, so, if in fact, the 921 has any analog outputs, they can be connected to the MITS.


So, if that is the case, would you be able to view the archived HD (on tape or external hard drive via Firewire to the 921) through the 921's analog outputs?


Paul
 

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Quote:
The lack of RGBHV or YPrPb outputs on the demo mokcup is what scares me-
Alex-

I do think others have previously reported this. But I'll repeat that the 921 I saw was connected via RGsB connection, AKA "Component" I thought all Mits HD sets have the "Component" 3 wires inputs.


FYI- Going from Component to RGBHV is a more complex electronic circuit conversion while the RGBHV encoded to RGsB for consumer "component" is much easier so it makes sense that if only one connection, RGsB is the way to go. Having said that, building in the circuits for the conversion to RGsB and adding the HD15 connection for the RGBHV would not add that much cost at the MFG level but would make the 921 compatible with more monitors, particularly the older CRT FP's in use by many home theaters.


In my HT I have to have both and since my FP CRT is only RGBHV, I had to buy an expensive transcoder from Extron at $700 cost to use some of the "component" only devices, like the Panasonic TuDST50.


I also believe but until we actually see the delivered model or have it confirmed by the "horses mouth" as you put it, the 1394 will not be compatible with the Mits Promise module due to the inclusion of graphics for the monitor NOT being present. I believe the source for this info was peterD during the CES show. I did not get into the graphics issue with the rep but I trust peterD knows what hes talking about. If I were still in development, Id make the 1394 output selectable for monitor use or DVHS use. Or offer both to include the Mits but as we keep suggesting more modifications the more this PVR will take to get to market. The good side to all these approaches to connectivity is that there are converter boxes being developed so in the future we'll have options.
 

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Greetings peeps,


I'm new to the forum and am soaking up the info like a sponge. :) I just purchased the Mits WS65819 and have been really enjoying my DVD collection since it's delivery on Wednesday.


I purchased this set *because* of future upgradeability and that moreso than the other HD monitors I've been shopping. I really liked the picture on the Hitachi best but went with the Mits because of future upgradeability.


With the talk about DVI and the future of where this is going it seems the Mits decision may be a wrong one since it will not support DVI. :(


Should I return this set and wait to get one with DVI inputs if that is where the industry is heading or will I be able to receive the pure HD content through DVI and be able to view it on this Mits I just dropped over 3k on?


I appreciate the straight answers, if they can be provided.


Rhino
 
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