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I'm not too worried about that too much myself, as I intend to use it with my recorder's TVGOS.


But if one was hoping to be able to depend on it, well, then they're likely to be disappointed. Personally though, I expected and accepted that the moment I heard it would be using the PSIP data. I was already familiar enough with the unreliability and incompleteness of that.


At least you can set timers though, and that's still something that no other CECB box out there yet can do.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
i hope it's ok i post this
http://www.gizmolovers.com/tag/tvgos/


Victim Of The Digital Transition: Analog TV Guide On Screen Devices?


Posted Wednesday, December 26th, 2007 at 21:03 by MegaZone. Filed under DVR, General Tech, HDTV Tags: digital television, Gemstar, TVGOS


Bruce Perens over at Technocrat pointed out something I hadn’t even thought of, and that I don’t recall being discussed elsewhere - the pending possible failure of TV Guide On Screen (TVGOS) dependent devices. According to Gemstar, more than 25 million households have TVGOS devices. Many, probably most, of these devices obtain their data from a signal embedded in the local analog PBS station’s broadcast. While an updated version of TVGOS which can use data from digital stations was released in 2006, most of the installed devices are analog-only.


The Gemstar TVGOS guide system was, and is, used in many TVs, VCRs, DVD recorders, and even DVRs. The Sony CableCARD DVRs, the DHG-HDD250 and DHG-HDD500, rely on TVGOS for not only their guide data, but also to set their clocks.


What will happen to all of these devices when the analog broadcasts cease on (or before) February 11, 2009? Even if you don’t use antenna, if the local PBS station goes all digital, the feed to your cable provider would be from the digital source. Even if the cable provider continued to provide the channel in analog form, it would be unlikely to contain the TVGOS data as the source feed would not. It seems likely that these devices will simply cease to function, or at least suffer a major loss of features, when the guide data is no longer available. It is already known that the Sony DVRs wouldn’t work in some areas of the country where the TVGOS data was simply unavailable as it was not carried by any of the stations.
 

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It should work with most or all of the SD recorders with TVGOS (as long as the recorder has the correct Scientific Atlanta cable box code in it's code base, to be able to change the channels on the DTVPal with it's IR blaster), but as far as the Sony and LG DVR's, which have their own, built-in digital tuners, nobody knows for sure yet.


I'm thinkin' that it should work with the TV's that have TVGOS, too.


The box is supposed to "convert" the digital TVGOS data to analog (I believe) so that the recorder's TVGOS will still fill in with info and basically function the same as before.


All I know for sure is that I'll find out once I get mine, which should be within the next couple of days. And I promise to post my results here and in the DVD Recorders sub-forum as soon as I can, because I know there are legions of people here waiting to find this out.


As far as cable, who knows, because once they convert the local digital host channel to analog, that data gets stripped out. It just depends on whether they care enough to put it back in or not. I know that a couple of people here have had success bugging the heck out of their cable companies until they replaced it.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dagger666 /forum/post/14162745


Even if you don't use antenna, if the local PBS station goes all digital, the feed to your cable provider would be from the digital source. Even if the cable provider continued to provide the channel in analog form, it would be unlikely to contain the TVGOS data as the source feed would not.

Is this true? I have read it both ways.


From other reports, the digital source will contain a digital copy of the old analog vertical blanking interval (VBI) data. Hopefully, when a cable company converts the digital source into an analog channel, they will take the digital copy of the VBI, and actually insert it into the analog's VBI.


This isn't to support TVGOS, but rather to support analog closed captioning (CC), which I believe, is legally required. If they do it "right", the TVGOS data should just come along for the ride with the analog CC data.


True?
 

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The problem is that once they strip the signal out, many stations are not even bothering to put it back in.


And they don't have much incentive to do so, considering they'd really rather rent you their recording equipment with their guide.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildgoose /forum/post/14166525


Anyone know how the DTVPal's pass through feature work? Does it work when the unit is on?

Yes dave or scott showed pics. You pus a analog passthru button on remote and then push yes or no to confirm. Not sure how to get box back though
 

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DTVpal seems to have a whole lot of people stirred up.
 

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Stolen from zatznotfunny.com - go to Dave's site and support him (so he won't object to my stealing his pics!)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaltA /forum/post/14163312


From other reports, the digital source will contain a digital copy of the old analog vertical blanking interval (VBI) data. Hopefully, when a cable company converts the digital source into an analog channel, they will take the digital copy of the VBI, and actually insert it into the analog's VBI.

If it doesn't, I suppose everyone will be returning theirs to Dish in Feb. as a defective product since it says it has a 7-day EPG but wouldn't.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFranchise /forum/post/14167547


If it doesn't, I suppose everyone will be returning theirs to Dish in Feb. as a defective product since it says it has a 7-day EPG but wouldn't.

the EPG and the TVGOS features are distinct from one another, and about the EPG, DTVPal says "up to seven days" (my emphasis), because it's PSIP based, not TVGOS based


as for page 28, it's in one of the posts in the real DTVPal thread (as are the pics above and many more...)

- as the alternate for REAL zip codes, it lists a single fake zip code for each met area, e.g., NYC is 00001, San Fran is 00005
 

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I posted the content below to the main DTV-Pal thread, but I'm afraid it got lost in all the talk about availability, price, and so on. So, I thought it was probably worthwhile to start a thread specifically discussing the ins and out of the DTV-Pal's TVGOS functionality.


____________________________________________________________ _____


Quoted from the CNET review:

"The DTVPal can also work in conjunction with a TV or DVD recorder that has TV Guide On Screen, or Guide Plus (also known as Gemstar). The instructions are in the manual, but basically you need to connect a G-Link cable from your TV Guide On Screen-capable device, set up the IR blaster in front of the DTV Pal, and set the DTVPal to TV Guide On Screen mode. We didn't have any TV Guide On Screen-capable devices on hand to test this, but it's a nice extra for those who use the service."


I've read, and perhaps misunderstood, that the DTV-Pal would somehow "convert" it's PSIP data into something that older TVGOS enabled devises could display on their guides. I'm wondering if I was wrong in my assumption.


Here's the way I understand the above CNET quote:


TVGOS data comes from OTA to TVGOS device.

Device sends TVGOS data to DTV-Pal via G-Link.

DTV-Pal reads TVGOS data, selects proper channel, emits an IR signal via IR blaster back to TVGOS device.


I had a TVGOS DVDr and it did display digital channels on the guide, even though it only had a NTSC tuner. So, TVGOS does broadcast program info for digital stations.


The only thing I'm wondering though, is what happens to the current TVGOS signal after 2/17/09? Will it continue? Or will the TVGOS abilities of the DTV-Pal just be a short term solution for legacy TVGOS devices?
 

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So the DTVpal uses a PSIP based tv guide and not TVGOS tv guide but it does convert the digital TVGOS broadcast signal to analog for use with analog based TVGOS tuners? I sure hope the TR-50 DVR uses TVGOS as PSIP is not very reliable.
 

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ok, operation of the DTVPal with TVGOS was described previously in the DTVPal thread AND there's a thread on VCRs and TVGOS...


a couple of us who are familiar with TVGOS and have looked at the relevant manual pages of the DTVPal have, I guess, gotten a little tired of describing its operation


but I have now answered your specific questions here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post14168745 in the main DTVPal thread, in the hope of not continuing to have ANOTHER new thread on the DTVPal...I don't know whether that hope will be fulfilled, but I do hope I've answered your questions...(one of the reviews that talked some about DTVPal's capabilities in this area was written by someone who probably didn't know much about how TVGOS works...
 
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