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From USA Today

Quote:
TiVo patent court ruling could impact all Dish Network DVRs


By David Lieberman


TiVo shares rocketed nearly 59%, to $16.20, at mid-day Thursday after the digital video recorder pioneer won a key -- and possibly decisive -- court victory in a long-running patent infringement case against Dish Network.


The United States Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit upheld a lower court ruling that Dish's DVRs violate TiVo's patents, including one that enables users to watch one TV show while recording another.


The appeals judges also upheld a ruling by the U.S. District Court in eastern Texas that Dish had been in contempt after it changed the software in its DVRs, but did so in a way that continued to copy TiVo's technology.


The appeals court decision could be "the beginning of the endgame" in a six-year fight over TiVo's intellectual property, Bernstein Research analyst Craig Moffett says.


He adds: "What is at stake is nothing less than (Dish's) ability to continue to offer DVRs" -- which many satellite viewers consider an essential service. For example, he says that TiVo could "open negotiations with DirecTV for exclusivity in DVRs within the satellite space."


The decision also could help TiVo in its patent infringement cases against Verizon and AT&T, says J.P Morgan analyst Bridget Weishaar says.


Dish said, in a statement, that its 14.1 million customers "are not impacted" at this point. The company says it will ask the entire Federal Circuit to review the latest decision. Such reviews are rare, and typically occur when there are questions about the nature of the law -- not the facts of a case.


"I don't think (the hearing request) does anything" for Dish, Collins Stewart analyst Tom Eagan says.


Dish shares were down about 5%, to $20.60, at mid-day.


Barring a reversal of the decisions favoring TiVo, the big questions now involve the extent of the damages to Dish.


The Texas court has already ordered Dish to pay $300 million to TiVo for damages up to July 1, 2009. TiVo says it now will ask for more cash for patent infringements since then.


Wall Street analysts say that Dish also likely will have to cut a deal with TiVo, and pay a monthly fee to avoid having to replace millions of DVRs.


Eagan says that Dish's stock price suggests that investors believe it will have to pay $3 a month for each DVR. But he believes the final price could be closer to $4. In addition, the change could lead about 500,000 Dish customers to drop the service or switch to DirecTV or cable.


But there's no consensus. For example, Wells Fargo Securities analyst Marci Ryvicker says a monthly fee could be as high as $3 and as low as $1.75.
 

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Does this decision affect the lowly little Pal? I was considering giving one a try, but if support will go away (what little there is now), I may reconsider.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitfoxdrvr /forum/post/18254923


I was considering giving one a try, but if support will go away (what little there is now), I may reconsider.

Don't kid yourself - there is absolutely no support from Dish/Echostar for it anyway (updates ended long ago). They will just tell you to take it back where you bought it from - in which case, you'd be best off purchasing the extended service agreement from the store.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski /forum/post/18259349


Don't kid yourself - there is absolutely no support from Dish/Echostar for it anyway (updates ended long ago). They will just tell you to take it back where you bought it from - in which case, you'd be best off purchasing the extended service agreement from the store.

Agreed-Sears extended warranty for $45. But if this little fella will not be available any more, Sears could not replace it if there is a problem during the two year warranty period. Not sure what they would do.
 

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frustrating.


been following this for quite a while and i cannot ascertain which dvr

models are subject to the tivo patents. i thought it was only the older

ones, but now i'm not sure. are the 612 and 722 infringing on tivo patents?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitfoxdrvr /forum/post/18270808


Agreed-Sears extended warranty for $45. But if this little fella will not be available any more, Sears could not replace it if there is a problem during the two year warranty period. Not sure what they would do.

Store credit "gift card".
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wally /forum/post/18548528


frustrating.


been following this for quite a while and i cannot ascertain which dvr

models are subject to the tivo patents. i thought it was only the older

ones, but now i'm not sure. are the 612 and 722 infringing on tivo patents?

I heard it wasn't the "VIP" models. Don't know how accurate that is, though.


They're saying "millions" - are there really millions of those older DVR's still out there?


Check the satellite forums. Now that D-day is almost upon us, they might know for sure by now.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski /forum/post/18548772


I heard it wasn't the "VIP" models. Don't know how accurate that is, though.


They're saying "millions" - are there really millions of those older DVR's still out there?


Check the satellite forums. Now that D-day is almost upon us, they might know for sure by now.

i finally found a post by our mod ken h. about a month and a half ago that says the vip series is not affected. still when i googled the topic it said something like 8 million dish dvr are involved. i thought i read dish has only 12-14 million subscribers so those numbers don't seem to add up as why would anyone use anything but the vip series? must be a lot of dumb dish subs if they have

dinosauor dvrs
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wally /forum/post/18549633


i finally found a post by our mod ken h. about a month and a half ago that says the vip series is not affected. still when i googled the topic it said something like 8 million dish dvr are involved. i thought i read dish has only 12-14 million subscribers so those numbers don't seem to add up as why would anyone use anything but the vip series? must be a lot of dumb dish subs if they have

dinosauor dvrs


Ah... we signed up with Dish in July of 2006, and our DVR625 was still working fine until we discontinued service this month. Sure, it had an odd glitch here and there, but why replace something that isn't broken?


Unless you're suggesting that continuining to use a product which meets all your needs is dumb, I don't get your point.


Edit: Now, this is the 'HDTV' forum, and a DVR625 is not HDTV. But my points still apply.



I do find this discussion very interesting, considering that we just dropped Dish Network in favor of Tivo (OTA only).
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Gilbert /forum/post/18564842


Ah... we signed up with Dish in July of 2006, and our DVR625 was still working fine until we discontinued service this month. Sure, it had an odd glitch here and there, but why replace something that isn't broken?


Unless you're suggesting that continuining to use a product which meets all your needs is dumb, I don't get your point.


Edit: Now, this is the 'HDTV' forum, and a DVR625 is not HDTV. But my points still apply.



I do find this discussion very interesting, considering that we just dropped Dish Network in favor of Tivo (OTA only).

well i guess my point would be


doesn't everybody who follows these forums have hdtvs and hd service

which would necessitate the vip hd dvrs?


i mean this is an audio/visual enthusiasts forum
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wally /forum/post/18565235


well i guess my point would be


doesn't everybody who follows these forums have hdtvs and hd service

which would necessitate the vip hd dvrs?


i mean this is an audio/visual enthusiasts forum

No - it DOESN'T necessarily follow that everyone will have HDTV only....
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wally /forum/post/18565235


doesn't everybody who follows these forums have hdtvs and hd service

which would necessitate the vip hd dvrs?

No.

Quote:
i mean this is an audio/visual enthusiasts forum

There is no HD DVR prerequisite.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wally /forum/post/18565235


well i guess my point would be


doesn't everybody who follows these forums have hdtvs and hd service

which would necessitate the vip hd dvrs?


i mean this is an audio/visual enthusiasts forum


I can see where one might surmise that. However, not everyone has the eyesight or wallet to justify HD TV reception (or similarly, BluRay). They can still enjoy all the other aspects of home theater immensely. Home theater has been around for far longer than High Definition. Just because something newer and better comes out doesn't mean you throw away old systems that still perfectly perform their function.
 

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no offense intended, just surprised to find sd only viewers following these forums.


any news about what dish is going to do?

they're past the deadline date.
 
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